Advice From Experienced Aquarists, Please -lp

[penny_040]

I'm not looking for "should haves," but would like some advice, please. I know I have rushed starting up this tank. It's a 55g with Emperor 400 filter, standard heater and lights. Started the tank 3 weeks ago and was determined to have 6 corys and 3 neons by Christmas morning because I have an established tank to jump-start cycling. I started with seeded gravel from a 1.5g tank that I have at work (it housed 2 serpae tetra). I put about a cup of seeded gravel in the media cartridges of the new tank's filter and put a few live plants (java fern) from my work tank into the new tank. Also put about 1/2 cup seeded gravel into the tank on top of the new gravel. 24 hours after putting the gravel and plants into the tank, I put in 6 corydoras cats (fish store got the fish a day later than expected--so the fish acclimated to the pet store tank in the morning and then into my tank that same evening. Stressful, I'm sure). I noticed immediately that one of the cats had a little bit of fungus on a fin. I didn't want to treat with medicine because I didn't want to kill the beneficial bacteria in the tank. It got worse by the next day, although none of the others showed any signs of fungus. Tests all normal--ammonia, nitrite & nitrate all at 0--testing daily, but have to admit to using marine ammonia test kit, marine or fresh nitrite test, and marine nitrate test kits. (I tried putting aquarium salt into the ammonia test tube while testing, and didn't notice any difference in the results.) Poor little catfish died the next day. A day later, another one got it. I did a 20% water change (yes, with dechlor & antichloramine) and set-up a quarantine tank by moving the tetras from my work tank into a 10g at home. Used same filter & gravel and added a sponge filter. The catfish died before I could get the quarantine tank set-up. It was too far-gone, anyway. Heater broke in the 55g during water change, so tank temperature dropped from 77 degrees to about 72 degrees during the day until I got home that evening with a new heater.

Everything was fine for a couple of days. Tests all normal, but not reading any nitrate which kind of worried me. Test results have never indicated any problem with the water. Husband brought home 4 more cory cats from the same pet store (trying to cheer me up). Within a day, I noticed one cat not associating with the others, but it did come out to eat. Next morning he was stuck to the filter and I put him out of his misery. All 7 catfish seemed fine for a couple of days.

Waited until the day before Christmas to get the neons. Added 10 from WalMart--acclimated them very slowly. Noticed one tiny neon with a white spot on a fin right away. Also noticed another cat not associating with the others. Catfish and neon died yesterday. Noticed another one with ich this morning. I have successfully battled ich before at half dose with clown loaches, but am really reluctant to use medication in the 55g right now.

So--it's impossible to catch one little neon with a spot of ich and another catfish is being antisocial. I'm tempted to try a half dose of Maracide to kill ich tomites and maybe half dose of fungus med, too. Any thoughts? Plan to do a 20% water change today and to buy a freshwater ammonia test kit and some ammo-lock. Have heard that ammo-lock will neutralize effects of ammonia, but not impede cycling. I feel guilty enough already, so please don't criticize me for rushing things.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Your tank is cycling, although you moved gravel from a stable tank, the amount of beneficial bacteria in it will be miniscule- the beneficial bacteria that keeps your tank cycled and stable, is almost entirely all in the filter media and needs to be kept alive by having a constant source of ammonia(i.e fish poop) and running water to give it oxygen.
A reading of 0 nitrates indicates the beneficial bacteria has either not established itself yet or is having issues and your tank is cycling- any decent meds should state wether they do or do not affect your bacterial cycle/filter media in your tank, there are many meds out there that don't kill off your beneficial bacteria and don't harm other life like plants so you need to get hold of the ones that don't.

Either way though you need to treat your fish, left untreated they will all die sooner or later.
Neon tetras are not very suited to new tanks as they can be fragile fish, your best course of action to treating whitespot is to slowly raise the temp to 28degrees and to treat the all neons with an full dose of whitespot med, "Anti whitespot plus" by interpet does not harm filter media, plants or anything else in the tank.
Corys are pretty much imune to getting whitespot, any corys that show symtoms of getting fungus should be treated with and anti fungal med but you need to make sure that they have fungus and not another similar looking desease like columnaris, which is bacterial. This is a good link on diagnosing columnaris and treating it;

http/www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm

As for the ich/whitespot, chance are that all neons are infected with it as the parasite has 5 life cycles, only one of which being visable and that is the whitespots itself, even after the whitespots have gone the fish will still be infected. Unfortunatly the parasite is imune to meds while in its visable whitespot stage, and this is why you raise the temp in te tank as it speeds up this stage so the meds can treat the fish quicker .
I would advise you continue to treat the tank for around 2weeks after the spots have disapeared, whitespot/ich should look like this;

http/www.fishpalace.org/ich_bobjohnson.jpg

 

[penny_040]

Thanks for the reply. I think INTERPRET is used in the UK, but I haven't seen it here. I think I am going to try treating with Cuperamine and keep a careful watch on copper levels. The fungus looks like true fungus, not columnaris as it forms in fluffy round white clumps on the fins, but thanks for the interesting link. The last two catfish that died didn't even exhibit fungus symptoms. They just got lethargic and antisocial and died. If I can believe the manufacturer's product description (!), the Cuperamine should work on the ich and fungus, and shouldn't hurt the filter bed. I hope.

Darla

 

[MegTheFish]

Remember for next time, when adding beneficial bacteria from another tank, don't wait longer then 2 hours to add fish, as by this time the bacteria would of died off without any ammonia source. So really, right now your starting your cycle from scratch.

 

[penny_040]

I forgot to mention that I did add seeded gravel two more times. I added about a cup when I put in the first corries and then added about a cup more when I added the second group of corries. It was a negligible amount, I know, but the best I could do from a 1.5g tank without stealing all of the gravel (I did add new gravel as I took the old out).

I couldn't find Cuperamine in 3 different pet stores this afternoon, so I bought some Super Ich
Cure, which I found out is malachite green, and some Fungus Eliminator, which is Furizolidone. As far as I can tell, I should be able to use them together. I have to go back and get an Ammonia test kit and some Ammolock tomorrow (husband was with me, and hates to spend $$$ on aquarium supplies). I am worried that the filter bed it stablilizing much slower than expected, and that I may have an ammonia spike. Will do water change and all treatments tomorrow.

Penny

 

[tttnjfttt]

One trick i have used at a chain LPS was to find the cheapest master test kit i could find. Back when I bought mine, i used Big Al's Online and took the price to the store. The store matched the price, and I walked off with a cheap master test kit.

Be careful about diagnosing columnaris vs fungus. I have seen only one case of true fungus through all my fish mistakes. Columnaris is much more comon.

Good luck!

 

[fishing4exotics]

Hi Darla, I wanted to add don't purchase any new fish for a while. Wait until your tank has cycled and you have cured the diseases in your tank. I think the people that sold you fish while your tank was sick should have given you this advise. Sometimes the fish stores are just interested in selling

 

[rdd1952]

I think I am going to try treating with Cuperamine and keep a careful watch on copper levels.

Be very careful treating with anything with copper in it. If you ever decide you want inverts like shrimp, they probably won't survive as the silicone sealant will absorb copper and leech it back out. Acrylic (if your tanks not glass) will also absorb copper. I do see where you couldn't find the Cupermine so I guess it's not an issue. Maracyn and Maracyn II are good products but I'm not sure which is for what disease. I have so far been lucky enough not to have to treat for diseases.

The tank is cycling as others have mentioned. The corys and neons are both bad fish for a new, uncycled tank as they are both delicate. And fish from Walmart are also almost always carrying disease since they are treated and handled so poorly there. You should always quarantine Walmart fish or any new fish for that matter before you add them to your tank unless you know and trust the store you get them from.

 

[penny_040]

I definitely won't buy any more fish until I have a healthy, stable tank, believe me. I really can't blame the lady who sold me the Tetras. I got them at WalMart and figured they had a better future with me than they would probably have had otherwise --and the employee didn't even know what Neon Tetras were. I had to point them out to her--not just which tank, but which fish within the tank. (At least their tanks were clean and no dead fish floating around!) This whole thing is my fault entirely! To top it off, when I went looking for fish meds yesterday, I discovered a lfs right around the corner from my house. A very clean pet store with a tank full of healthy neon tetras for 75 cents less per fish than what I paid at WalMart! I should have known better, but I wanted to have the tank set-up with a school of neons by Christmas day (I actually wanted a school of Cardinals, but can't get them around here this time of year. I still plan to get some eventually).

In my own defense, though, I don't think the problems in my tank are related to water quality. I think the catfish came with the fungus and the neons have ich because they have been stressed. I knew that growing the right amount of beneficial bacteria would take time, but I thought the bioload of 6 corry cats in a 55 gallon would be OK to start since I used seeded gravel in the filter and a small amount in the tank. Adding 6 neons a week later didn't seem like much of a bioload increase, especially at their tiny size. However, it may very well be that the variations in water parameters (possible swings in nitrite and/or ammonia) exacerbated the incidence or growth of the problems that the fish brought with them, if you know what I mean. I would love to know if the marine nitrate test is accurate in freshwater. Other than the addition of aquarium salt, which I have tried in the test tube with no noticible effect, I don't know what the difference in water content would be.

Oh, well. Off to do a water change and then treat the tank. I am going to treat at 1/2 strength for both fungus and ich. I read this morning that neon tetras are very sensitive to Malachite Green and should be treated at half-strength. I hope this works.

Thanks for your responses. If I have any more questions, I'll post again.

 

[rdd1952]

Darla, what part of NC are you in? There are a lot of fish stores around the Charlotte area if that's where you happen to be. Some are definitely better than others.

 

[penny_040]

We're in Thomasville, actually closer to Greensboro than Charlotte. I'm sure there are a lot of good pet stores around here. We've only lived here a little over a year, so I'm just getting to know my way around. I've been to Petsmart and a Pet Supermarket in High Point, and just discovered a tiny little pet store here in Thomasville.

So far, no deaths. Treated the tank yesterday morning. A couple of tetras have two ich spots and a couple have just one, a little worse than yesterday I think, but they're all very active and eating. It's hard to tell how many have ich because they move so fast! I raised the temp in the tank to 81 degrees to expedite the ich life cycle and am keeping the light off most of the time because I read that light will affect the Malachite Green. Will add more ich med tomorrow, then on Sat. will do a 25% water change and add more fungus med (all according to the directions, but at half dose). The catfish have all been out and about this morning, although one still hangs back somewhat. But I don't have any completely hiding any more, which I think is a good sign. I think the medicine may actually be making them feel a little better, but that 's probably just wishful thinking.

Darla