Adding Fish

[777james777]

If they all come from the same shop within a short period of time, quarantine is not necessary.

When we have a tank of fish with the same fish for several months or years, if there had been any sickness in the tank we would have dealt with it and all the fish will be healthy. Then we want more fish. Those new fish could easily be sick in the shop and they'd give the disease to the fish already in the tank and potentially kill them. So we use a quarantine tank for the new fish and leave them in there long enough to find out if they are sick. If they are, we can treat the disease in the quarantine tank. Once we are sure they are not sick, or once sick fish have been successfully treated, we can then put them in the main tank and know they won't pass a disease to the fish already there.

When a tank has been fishless cycled and we buy fish from the same shop, if there's any disease they'll all have it since the disease will be in all the shop's tanks. We can put them straight into the cycled tank and if necessary treat them in there.
Then we want more fish. If we get them after just a couple of weeks from the same shop, they can go in the main tank. But if you get fish from a different shop, they might have diseased fish, you can't tell. So fish from a different shop should be quarantined before going in the main tank however long it is after you got the fist fish, a week or a year.

I see, yes that makes sense, presumably this quarantine tank will need its own filter heater light etc... and wouldn't this need to be cycled? or are the fish in there for just a few days?
However, if I was to go to say Pier Aquatics as an example and buy 3 different breeds of tropical fish from 3 separate tanks, then one of the tanks could be contaminated and if i then put all three breeds in at once they then all would be?

 

[Ram419]

I see, yes that makes sense, presumably this quarantine tank will need its own filter heater light etc... and wouldn't this need to be cycled? or are the fish in there for just a few days?
However, if I was to go to say Pier Aquatics as an example and buy 3 different breeds of tropical fish from 3 separate tanks, then one of the tanks could be contaminated and if i then put all three breeds in at once they then all would be?

Most of the time fish stores have the same water flowing through all the tanks. So, it doesn't matter which tank you grabbed the fish from they would all been affected. Yes, your quarantine tank should be cycled. You can make the process pretty much instant if you have established filter media from another tank and put it in the new tank to get it cycled fast.

 

[Essjay]

Or do what I do. I discovered a few years ago that because I have plants there are almost no bacteria in the filter in my main tank. I used 1/4 of the media form the main tank to set up a quarantine tank and it took a full fishless cycle till it was ready. Nowadays I use plants in the quarantine tank.
When I set up the QT, I put in some substrate, some plastic decor, a small internal filter with nothing but filter wool inside and fill it with warmish water then let the temperature stabilise.
I have floating plants in my main tank and they grow so well I have to throw away handfuls every week or the tank would be entirely covered with plants a few inches deep. Before I leave for the shop I take floating plants from the main tank, enough to almost cover the surface of the QT, then at the shop I also buy 2 or 3 bunches of elodea. These plants are more than enough to deal with the ammonia made by the fish in the QT. I've never detected any ammonia or nitrite in the QT while doing this.

I usually throw the plants away once the fish go in the main tank. Elodea is just about the cheapest plant sold almost everywhere and the red root floater was going in the gardening recycling anyway.

The filter with filter wool is just to move the water round and catch any bits in the water.

 

[777james777]

Or do what I do. I discovered a few years ago that because I have plants there are almost no bacteria in the filter in my main tank. I used 1/4 of the media form the main tank to set up a quarantine tank and it took a full fishless cycle till it was ready. Nowadays I use plants in the quarantine tank.
When I set up the QT, I put in some substrate, some plastic decor, a small internal filter with nothing but filter wool inside and fill it with warmish water then let the temperature stabilise.
I have floating plants in my main tank and they grow so well I have to throw away handfuls every week or the tank would be entirely covered with plants a few inches deep. Before I leave for the shop I take floating plants from the main tank, enough to almost cover the surface of the QT, then at the shop I also buy 2 or 3 bunches of elodea. These plants are more than enough to deal with the ammonia made by the fish in the QT. I've never detected any ammonia or nitrite in the QT while doing this.

I usually throw the plants away once the fish go in the main tank. Elodea is just about the cheapest plant sold almost everywhere and the red root floater was going in the gardening recycling anyway.

The filter with filter wool is just to move the water round and catch any bits in the water.

I was ment to ask this the other day about the plants. Im guessing that the plants remove bacteria out of the water?
Have we not spent ages trying to build up this bacteria? Or is it it something eles that they remove.

Could you please provide a bit of kowledgable information on plants. I do plan on having a very planted aquarium.
Oh and just off topic - my slate that had been in a new plastic container for 24 hours had no cloudiness in the water it was still clear. So I replaced the water in it. is that correct.

 

[Ram419]

There are detailed steps for each method of cycling on this forum. This link sends you to the Planted silent cycle steps --> https://www.fishforums.net/threads/planted-silent-cycling.470400/
It briefly describes the 3 cycle methods, and then you can make a decision on which one you want to use.

 

[777james777]

There are detailed steps for each method of cycling on this forum. This link sends you to the Planted silent cycle steps --> https://www.fishforums.net/threads/planted-silent-cycling.470400/
It briefly describes the 3 cycle methods, and then you can make a decision on which one you want to use.

Thanks Ram. I am currently midway through a fishless cycle. I was just wondering how adding my plants at the end may effect this.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I do not agree with the idea that one can stock a new tank in two goes a few weeks apart from the same store. Most stores get in new fish ever week, sometimes more than once in a week, Thy buy from the importers and wholesalers. These folks are not always the best at control of diseases and parasites.

It would be a mistake to assume that you can go into a store and buy half of you stock which turns out to be healthy and does well and then assume you can go back to the same store in a few weeks and their stock will still be healthy. In just 3 weeks between shopping there they will have had more fish turnover than you can imagine. There is just no way to assume that safe the first time means safe the next time.

This is one of the biggest drawbacks when it comes to buyinf fish retail. Not only does it apply to the brick and mortar store but also right down to folks like me who breed and sell fish on a small scale from home. Even though I know what I ship is healthy when I put it into the bag, that does not mean the process of being caught, bagged, shipped and then whatever the buyer does at their end to get the fish into their tank(s) who can say they wont get sick from the process? This is all stressful for the fish and, as we all know, stress opens fish to disease and parasites etc. So while my fish go into the bag in great shape, this doesn't mean they can't end up sick in the destination tank.

There is also one more variable. Fish tend to develop immunity to some things. But that depends upon to what things they have been exposed. Most things lurk in low levels in our tanks but the natural immunity the fish have protects thm most of the time. However, It is a mistake to think that the same nastirs exist in ever tank. What may be lurking at a low level in my tank may be different than what is in your tank. So our fish are doing fin in out respective tanks but if we traded soome fish and did not Q, they might very well be exposed to something they are not prepared to fend off. This is especially true when one mixes tank raised and recently cvaught wild fish. it is also true when one mixes wild fish from different fresh water systems. Since I do not do salt water fish I cannot comment on them.

I told the OP initially that they should stock their tank fully for two reasons. The first is that a fishless cycle makes it possible and safe. The second is full stocking will mean there is no need to quarantine the initial stock as the new tank is Q for them. I can also confess that there have been a few times when I got new fish from a source I knew well and trusted that I skipped Q. But I also knew I was taking a risk, albeit small, but still there. I was lucky in this and I was aware I could be making a big mistake.

Most folks new to the hobby lack the experience and usually the set-up for doing Q. I can run an H tank uncyled for a few weeks easily, but after that it gets to be a chore. For doing Q I need a cycled tank. I do not think that the OP has a Q tank on hand.

What makes this idea even less appealing is that the concept of doing the sort of frequent water changes suggested is that they can still be done in a tank where all the fish went in at the same time and then problems showed up. However, such extra changes may not be needed. So one way there is a lot more work being planned as being necessary and the other way it is possible such multiple changes will never be needed.

 

[Ram419]

Thanks Ram. I am currently midway through a fishless cycle. I was just wondering how adding my plants at the end may effect this.

I'm pretty sure you can add plants during a fishless cycle. I'd let some other's answer to be sure though.

 

[Byron]

If you are adding chemical ammonia, do not add live plants. The issue is that some plant species will be negatively affected by this much ammonia. There are some plant species that will die at 1 ppm. So wait until finished, then do a major water change, plant the plants (those going in the substrate) and refill the tank with fresh water. You can use the dechlorinator this time. Assuming the plants live, fish will be going in.

Im guessing that the plants remove bacteria out of the water?
Have we not spent ages trying to build up this bacteria? Or is it it something eles that they remove

No, plants do not remove bacteria. Nitrifying bacteria is sticky, and it latches on to surfaces and stays there. It is not in the water column once it has entered the tank and found a surface. What is in the water is ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. The bacteria remove these, and plants also use them. Plants like all living things needs nitrogen. Most aquatic plants prefer ammonia/ammonium so they grab it almost as soon as it appears. They are faster at doing this than the nitrifying bacteria. The benefit of plants taking up this ammonia/ammonium is that they do not produce nitrite or nitrate. Plants will not take up nitrite or nitrate if there is sufficient ammonia/ammonium present for their needs; this is because in order to use the nitrogen, the plants must convert the nitrite or nitrate back into ammonium, and this takes them precious energy and time, about 24 hours to "switch gears." The light and nutrients need to be in balance for plants. Fast growing plants like stem plants and especially floating plants can assimilate an incredible amount of ammonia/ammonium.

Nutrients for plants enter the tank in three ways. Fish being fed, water changes, and adding plant supplements (fertilizers). That is another big topic.

 

[sharkweek178]

I was ment to ask this the other day about the plants. Im guessing that the plants remove bacteria out of the water?
Have we not spent ages trying to build up this bacteria? Or is it it something eles that they remove.

Could you please provide a bit of kowledgable information on plants. I do plan on having a very planted aquarium.
Oh and just off topic - my slate that had been in a new plastic container for 24 hours had no cloudiness in the water it was still clear. So I replaced the water in it. is that correct.

The plants absorb the ammonia that the bacteria would normally process. Now this also depends on the type of plants that you're adding. Rooted plants will absorb some of the ammonia and other nutrients out of the water column, but not that much. Other plants that are column feeders, like java fern or anubias, grow too slowly for our purposes here. What you really want are fast growing floating plants. Those grow so fast that they suck the ammonia right out of the water. Salvinia minima, Amazon frogbit, red root floaters, water lettuce. You can also float plants like hornwort, water wisteria, anacharis. Not only do they absorb ammonia out of the water, they also provide shade and cover that your fish will appreciate.
Now there is a caveat here. This is not an instant cycle method. You have to have a substantial amount and make sure the plants are growing before adding fish. But the nice thing is that you can add plants and it gives you something to do and look at while you prepare to add fish. Once you have an adequate amount of plants that are growing, you can add your fish all at once (as long as they are coming from the same place, like Essjay said). Anything you add after that, you should quarantine.

 

[AlexT]

Another thing I love about a thorough fishless cycle is, get all your fish in at the same time (subject to healthy stocking) early doors and then if any sickness develops, treat the whole tank, rather than new fish coming in every week for the first month. That always worries me.

 

[777james777]

The plants absorb the ammonia that the bacteria would normally process. Now this also depends on the type of plants that you're adding. Rooted plants will absorb some of the ammonia and other nutrients out of the water column, but not that much. Other plants that are column feeders, like java fern or anubias, grow too slowly for our purposes here. What you really want are fast growing floating plants. Those grow so fast that they suck the ammonia right out of the water. Salvinia minima, Amazon frogbit, red root floaters, water lettuce. You can also float plants like hornwort, water wisteria, anacharis. Not only do they absorb ammonia out of the water, they also provide shade and cover that your fish will appreciate.
Now there is a caveat here. This is not an instant cycle method. You have to have a substantial amount and make sure the plants are growing before adding fish. But the nice thing is that you can add plants and it gives you something to do and look at while you prepare to add fish. Once you have an adequate amount of plants that are growing, you can add your fish all at once (as long as they are coming from the same place, like Essjay said). Anything you add after that, you should quarantine.

I think it makes sense to add them all at once. Like has been mentioned by @AlexTimothy147 if one was to become sick you could tray the whole tank at once I’m guessing? In an ideal world I would like to get my water correct, then add in my ornaments and air stone, then the plants then all the fish at once