Add A Second Filter?

[rob10101]

Hello Everyone,
 
55 gallon freshwater tank is up and running with a Fluval 406 Canister (inlet and outlet both near the right corner).  I read that its a good idea to have a second filter running as a backup and to provide additional filtration, although the Fluval 406 is allegedly rated up to 100 gallons.   Any opinions or recommendations on the matter?  If you think this is a good idea, can you suggest something to complement the 406, even if it is another cannister? Cost would not be an issue as I want to go with the best.  Thanks in advance!!

 

[gmc1]

I run fluval u3 and aquael750 internals along with my 406 in my 300 litre tank.it gives my tank three levels of flow

 

[rob10101]

Forgot to mention that I have sand on the floor.

 

[Far_King]

Running another filter won't cause a problem unless you happen to have fish that don't like a high flow rate.  You won't be able to over-filtrate.
 
I know certain manufacturers like Eheim state to have the inlet and outlet in the same area of the tank, personally I have mine at opposite ends.
 
If I were to run two filters I'd try to put both inlets in the middle of the tank if possible and outlets at the far back corners.

 

[Akasha72]

I run two JBL crystalprofi externals on my 4ft tank. Before this tank (Juwel Rio240) I had a slightly smaller one (Juwel Rio180) with only the one JBL. According to the manufacturers calculations is was more than sufficient for the tank size but I used to get the greasy film surface build up in the opposite corner to my filter outlet. I added a small internal in that corner and the film went away. Then I found another JBL on ebay and managed to bag it for £20 so I added the 2nd external. When I upgraded to the larger tank I just moved the filters over and it works well.
 
I have the inlet and outlet for each filter on the same side, that way there is no complicated pipe crossing going on at the back of the tank and when it's time to clean the pipes both just lift out in one go. I like to keep it simples. 
 
I point my outlet nozzles towards the middle so the flow appears to hit the front glass in the centre and circle back on itself. I never see any dead spots on my substrate.
 
I think if you've got a tank of about 200 litres a second filter is a good idea. When it comes to maintenance I alternate cleaning on the filters. That way if I have a minor over clean I'm confident that the 2nd filter is picking up the slack whilst bacteria re-forms. It also means there's a back up if one filter fails when the shops are closed

 

[PepperjacksMama]

I am all for two or more filters. As has been said you can't over filter. But you can have too much flow. Sponge filters are a nice option.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Short answer is no, you don't need two filters.  A good rule of thumb and how filter size is rated is you want to have, at least, a 5 times per hour turn over rate.  This means you want the water in your tank to go through your filter, at least, 5 times in one hour.
 
Your filter is rated at 383gph (gallons per hour).  So we take your 55 gallon tank/383gph = 6.9 times turn over in one hour.  Multiply this by 15% to take into consideration of parasitic loss (6.9)(.15) = 1.0.  So we take 6.9 - 1.0 = 5.9.  Let's just round up to 6 times turn over in one hour.  So you are good.  If you would like you can always add more filters, it won't hurt anything.  Just make sure the extra current is safe for your fish.

 

[Byron]

I basically agree with the post above (fatheadminnow).  
 
While it is true that you cannot over-filter (thinking here of biological filtration), you can have too many filters and negatively impact the fish and biological system.  In other words, more filtration is not always better, and may actually be quite the opposite.
 
The fish species should always be the first consideration when deciding on a filter.  Obviously this is primarily related to flow.  And the habitat of the fish should guide the placement of a filter.  Fish that have evolved to live in slow-flowing streams will be better in a tank with a slight current end to end.  Fish from fast-flowing rivers need stronger currents, but it should be in the same direction, end to end, because the fish will function best with this arrangement--it is what they "expect."  Fish that occur in flooded forest, swamps, ponds and lakes will be best with the least amount of current, such as sponge filters provide.
 
Aside from the current issue, which is critical to most fish, there is the biological filtration itself.  And this is where you cannot over-filter a tank, because the biological processes will occur at the level dictated by the aquarium.  You can of course over-filter in the area of mechanical filtration, up to a point, but if the fish species and numbers are not beyond the natural biological capacity of the water volume, there is no benefit to so-called over-filtration, since it really does not exist.
 
Byron.

 

[rob10101]

Lots of very useful and informative information.  I just added some fish a few days ago (just a couple of cory cats) to help the flora build up while not stressing the fish and setup too much and using the Tetra SafeStart.  I have been testing ammonia/nitrites/nitrates daily and so far there hasn't been any significant color change to warrant an immediate water change or other measures (number corresponding to the colors have been 0's so far).  The consideration for additional filtration has been more to have a backup than the fact that the 406 is not enough.  I have the outlet running parallel to the rear wall so it shoot water to the opposite side wall.  I am wondering if at full pressure, this may not be to the liking of the cory cats.  Using a spray bar has crossed my mind too.  Your experience would be welcome here in this regards and with respect to best positioning of the outlet of the 406.  They didn't give any specifics in the users manual.  If I did add another filter, I would prefer it not generate too much flow and as silent as possible.  Thanks in advance for your help!!

 

[Byron]

Spray bars are a good way to disseminate the flow a bit.  Placing the bar across the end wall and directing the holes into the end glass and slightly down works well for this.
 
Corys vary in their need/appreciation of water flow.  I have nearly 50 corys in my 115g, representing some dozen species, and the only ones who regularly play in the direct flow from the filter are the C. panda, which is not surprising as this species occurs in the higher mountain streams in Peru that have a faster current as a result.  Some of the species prefer to remain at the opposite end of this 5-foot tank, as far from the outflow as possible.  As long as they are not forced into battling a current, they will likely be OK.  We tend to forget that with flow from a filter, it is 24/7 and if the fish have no escape from this, it does impact their stress and thus their physiology and health.
 
To the "cycling," you should not see any detectable level of ammonia or nitrite using SafeStart and with so few fish in a 55g.  I don't know if you have live plants, but if yes, these will take up most all of the ammonia/ammonium at this stage which is even better.
 
Byron.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Safestart is a good product and will help with your cycling a lot.  Few things to keep in mind moving forward.  Ammonia at or above .25ppm can cause permanent gill damage to the fish and kill them.  Nitrite at or above .25ppm can cause permanent nerve damage and kill the fish.  So keep on top with checking these and make sure to do water changes with either ammonia and/or nitrite are above .25ppm.  Hopefully the safe start will do it's job and help speed this cycle up.  What test kit do you have?

 

[rob10101]

Safestart is a good product and will help with your cycling a lot.  Few things to keep in mind moving forward.  Ammonia at or above .25ppm can cause permanent gill damage to the fish and kill them.  Nitrite at or above .25ppm can cause permanent nerve damage and kill the fish.  So keep on top with checking these and make sure to do water changes with either ammonia and/or nitrite are above .25ppm.  Hopefully the safe start will do it's job and help speed this cycle up.  What test kit do you have?

I've been testing daily since I put the corys in the tank using the API Freshwater Master Test Kit.  There hasn't been any change in any of the colors yet for the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates so far but as soon as I detect any change, I will do a water change to keep things in check.  I do get the feeling that the flow from the outlet nozzle of the 406 might be too much to the liking of the corys so I have turned the flow down to 75% via the Flowcheck Valve and have a spray bar on order and I'll run it across the back wall of the tank when it comes in and then will set the flow back up again at 100%.  I have read that the spray bar nozzles should be turned 45 degrees towards the back wall and not directly up towards the water.  Suggestions??

 

[fatheadminnow]

 

Safestart is a good product and will help with your cycling a lot.  Few things to keep in mind moving forward.  Ammonia at or above .25ppm can cause permanent gill damage to the fish and kill them.  Nitrite at or above .25ppm can cause permanent nerve damage and kill the fish.  So keep on top with checking these and make sure to do water changes with either ammonia and/or nitrite are above .25ppm.  Hopefully the safe start will do it's job and help speed this cycle up.  What test kit do you have?

I've been testing daily since I put the corys in the tank using the API Freshwater Master Test Kit.  There hasn't been any change in any of the colors yet for the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates so far but as soon as I detect any change, I will do a water change to keep things in check.  I do get the feeling that the flow from the outlet nozzle of the 406 might be too much to the liking of the corys so I have turned the flow down to 75% via the Flowcheck Valve and have a spray bar on order and I'll run it across the back wall of the tank when it comes in and then will set the flow back up again at 100%.  I have read that the spray bar nozzles should be turned 45 degrees towards the back wall and not directly up towards the water.  Suggestions??
 

 
Where you aim the spray bar is really up to you and what type of fish you have.  The API test kit is good so we all know, now, you are getting accurate readings for your water parameters.
 
One thing I would do is make the spray bar have a little water surface turbulence.  Doing this will allow oxygen to enter the tank.  Most people believe having an aerator and the bubbles flowing through the water column from the bottom of the tank to the top of the tank is how oxygen enters the water, when, in fact, that is not correct.  Oxygen enters the water when the surface of the water has "turbulence".  So when the bubbles, from the aerator, break at the surface and cause surface turbulence, that is where oxygen enters the water.  You can achieve this with the water coming back from your filter.  But if you have an aerator in the tank then I really wouldn't worry where you aim the spray bar as long as it's to your liking and to the liking of the fish.