Aaaaaarrrrgggghhhh!

[Honeythorn]

Right, the remaining fighting few survivors are as follows:
1 BGK, 5 Guppies, 4 Danios, 11 Neons, 6 Endlers, 1 Pleccy, 5 Roseboras ( I think that's what they are), 2 Apple Snails (if they are still alive), 3 dwarf frogs, 1 Clown Loach.
I have added the air pump/air stone with immediate improvement in fish movements now but with the ill ones it's hard to tell if they are moving on their own power or with current. The water was changed almost completely by my partner (without my knowing) hence the low nitrite/nitrate levels in the hospital tank.
With regards to de-chlorinator, at first yes we did, and with every water change, but have now stopped in main tank.

With regards to tank size and your fish, Your tank is around 16 gallons and will stunt and contribute to the early death of the plec the clown loach and the BGK. The fish store has given you terrible advice with the keeping of those fish. They all grow very large indeed and need tanks of at least 75 gallons .

The kindest thing to do would be to return or re-home these asap. Your tank cannot support them.

You can just about get away with the smaller fish if you do 50% weekly water changes ( or 2 weekly water changes of 25% if that makes it easier )

As for the goldfish, they also grow very large and require at least 55 gallons per pair. Or a pond as common goldfish, shubunkins, comets and other normal bodied goldfish are actually pond fish . Fancies generally grow to the size of a cricket ball and still require large strongly filtered tanks. You were getting astronomical readings in your coldwater tank becuase these are messy fish that produce a LOT of waste. An external filter is really the best thing to use for big fish like these ( more filter media space means more room for good bacteria to break down fish waste )

You should also always use dechlorinator when adding fresh water to your tanks during water changes. Chlorine and Chloranine is very harmful to fish and will not make those who are ill any better.

 

[theshadowinc]

Right, the remaining fighting few survivors are as follows:
1 BGK, 5 Guppies, 4 Danios, 11 Neons, 6 Endlers, 1 Pleccy, 5 Roseboras ( I think that's what they are), 2 Apple Snails (if they are still alive), 3 dwarf frogs, 1 Clown Loach.
I have added the air pump/air stone with immediate improvement in fish movements now but with the ill ones it's hard to tell if they are moving on their own power or with current. The water was changed almost completely by my partner (without my knowing) hence the low nitrite/nitrate levels in the hospital tank.
With regards to de-chlorinator, at first yes we did, and with every water change, but have now stopped in main tank.

~ WOW ~ Honestly I would have taken all the fish back to the store and slowly done a fish in cycle but that is me! Your tank is actually a 16gallone so full grown fish at there max would get rid of almost every fish here cept a few. Just the tetris alone would be fine in that tank the rest would have to go! To much stock and to little of a tank, thats a bad store for ya I probably wouldn't do business there ever again if it was me,
Clown loach I loved owning one of them the first time I got one and really the only reason I got one for a 55gallon was to get rid of my snail issue i had, and even then I rehomed it to someone who had a 210, actually i gave it free to the person cause I knew it needed a bigger home and it did the job I needed it to do for me! I will type a quick guide out for ya. Your turnover rate for some reason don't sound right to me its a 16 gallon tank you have and your filtration should be 4x that number so 64 gallons. Well at least alot of people here will be able to help you and the store should be shot!

Cycling a tank can take up to 1 month or longer! At least you didn't buy discuss to find out they would die that would be a disaster and a really expensive leasson to learn from. I hate to say it but your bottom feeder and clown loach won't last long in that tank. Not only will they out grow it but pass on to the sky well trying to mature!

Hope this all works out for ya, this could have been worse for sure but atleast you have people that are helping you now.

P.S. Umm you can get a water report from you local area from the water place I would suggest this, I keep discuss now and I get a report every year to see what the lvls are in the water especially Clhorine! Where I am from I find our water is pretty good and don't need to use water conditioners when doing water changes but this is also on a mature fish tank, and when we smell the chlorine we use the dechlorinatar. Only reason we are able to smell it, is cause are water has very little in it if any and when there is chlorine in it we are able to smell it right away. I also find adding Conditioner to the water when doing water changes helps with stress This step should not be forgotten about <- Its like pouring chlorine over your arm, and then pouring water on top of it. Does nothing to help the burn. Fish are the same way, and they to burn from it.

 

[Devorax]

I AM HAPPY!! We haven't lost a fish in 24 hours and water tests all come back fine, except ammonia readings of 02.mg/l. I know this should be nil but my priority has been keeping everyone alive and it seems we have finally achieved this. Over the next few days once everyone has settled down completely then I will tackle the ammonia level to get it to nil.
I do have concern for the dwarf frog as he spends all his time randomly floating with the water flow, I think this is because of the meds given a few days ago which stated that it was unsuitable for his species. He is alive cos if we go to catch him he moves away from us. Is it worth moving him to the med-free main aquarium?
Well, thanks to everyone that has given me helpful advice cos god knows without it I would be looking at an empty tank now. If you are ever in Merthyr, let me know and I'll get you a beer....lol. Seriously, I am really grateful and will continue to read the wealth of info this site has to offer.
Thanks everybody!!

 

[LauraFrog]

If you can get the frog out, definitely move him.

This sounds promising, it sounds as though the tank is starting to cycle. 0.2 is good because with that many fish in the tank it means that at least some of the ammonia is being processed now. Remember that the aim is to keep ammonia below 0.25 when doing a fish-in cycle.

What's your nitrite reading?

 

[saz326]

Gosh - You must have spent a fortune so far!

Sadly fish are such an expensive impulse buy. You see something you like and REALLY want it. Im afraid you're gonna have to hit the books and research a few species that you like before buying them.

Well done for sticking with it. Please dont rush things though. Its like waiting for a baby's first words, you have to keep dealing with all the muck and hard work for ages before you get so much as a "momma".

Your tank WILL come good. Just bear with it.

Few words of advice:
- nitrAtes are NOT the enemy. They are not harmfull unless in mega High numbers. They simply promote aglae growth etc. They arent poisonous at the levels you have been experiencing. NitrItes and Ammonia however should read close to 0 in a happy aquarium.
- Before buying anything - research about it. Whether a fish, or an item. You'll only regret it or loose cash if you dont.
- Water changes need dechlorinator. You will either kill good bacteria or harm the fish. sorry.
- Fish shops want your money. Always remember that, they are there to sell you stuff - not to advise.

Give us an update in a while and good luck.

 

[theshadowinc]

- Fish shops want your money. Always remember that, they are there to sell you stuff - not to advise.

So True! I have found most don't like it if you are knowledged lol! At least a few petshop around my area hate the fact that I probably know more then they do about some of the fish! Expecially Planted tanks! Reminds me when I was in a store and the manager loves seeing me come in but really I hate the new manager I loved the old one he knew what he was talking about the new one is just meh he is just a sales person to me lol! I usually try to do my business with breeders cause they are more rounded in there knowledge compared to the average sales person hehe! Not only that the old manager didn't have knowledge on planted tanks and was upfront about it to me, basically the only thing he knew what they cycle different and recommended me to a few sites online before even getting setup 5 years ago with my 30gal! <- thats a good manager!

 

[Charlieboy]

Well people, it's a good old fashioned case of Sod's Law, I'm afraid. Not long after I had posted the morning's note about everything is seemingly okay, I lost the last Dwarf Frog, 1 Guppy that we had seen okay only an hour previously, 2 neons and discovered that the BGK had taken in another guppy's body in to his little hidey hole for in between meals munching (although we are still at a loss to explain which one it was and how the hell we didn't notice it missing in the first place).
The neons/cardinals seem to have this rather alarming trait of late of ending up in the filter. Apart from them being too weak to avoid it, is there any other reason why this might be happening? (apart from suicide, which I seriously doubt). All the neons/cardinals are also losing their colour.
The only high points to note are the fact that one guppy female is on the verge of dropping fry (judging from what we have read on this site) and that the main aquarium is stable enough to keep 3 baby guppies alive by themselves (the two 'guinea pig' goldfish have been removed after they made a bee-line for the fry to swallow them whole. Only a vicious knock on the side of the tank from me saved the poor little things, as it put the goldfish off at the last sceond-a neccessary evil, I think you'll agree).
The nitrate/nitrite levels in all tanks are within the safe zones indicated on the test strip instructions (Tetra 6 in 1), but the ammonia levels are 0.2 in the main aquarium and higher still in the hospital tank. I can understand why this is cos of the number of fish in the 25 litre hospital. Water changes occur twice daily to keep this in the mid range of 'safe', which I do understand is quite a different thing from 'desired'.
So, to summarise, we now have the following stragglers
1 Clown Loach, 1 BGK, 4 Pearl Danios, 5 Roseboras (not sure which type), 1 Bristle-nosed Pleccy (pretty sure that's what it is), 6 Endlers Livebearers, 3 Guppies, 2 Apple Snails. I call them stragglers because we had way much more than that when this saga began. Which was stupid, but I've been over that before...lol
If anyone has any clues about how to keep the neons/cardinals alive, I'd like to hear from you.
And in response to the comment that I must have spent a fortune so far, well yes I have, and I'm not proud of it. Had I known what I was doing in the first place (which it seems perfectly obvious I didn't) then I wouldn't have needed to. I have cut no corners in trying to correct the self-induced problem, and will happily spend any money needed to get these poor fish back in top shape. There are times when I want to give up, but when I look at their faces it reminds me why I wanted fish in the first place and I keep on trying.
Thanks to everyone still taking an interest after all this time, but it would seem this problem isn't going to go away any time soon.


PS The Charlieboy account name is my partners and I didn't spot she was signed in....lol

 

[Jo Booth]

I started off in much the same way as you albeit not quite so drastically ! I moved a few mountain minnows into a new tank a few years ago after breaking their old one when cleaning. The new tank was all singing all dancing and of course my luck ran out when I added a few tank mates.

I found a very very good local fish shop. they helped me out together with th guys and gals on here. I have been given items, help and stock for free as I have found my feet and I cannot recommend the shop and their dedicated staff enough - it makes me cringe now when I go into the large national pet shops and see the state of some of their fish.

One thing I can recommend that certainly helped to speed the cycling process up for me was live bacteria. It is sold in my LFS in little pots - looks like caviar in water and is kept refidgerated. About £5/pot. It knocked my water changing down, which I was doing daily for well over a week. They also did me a discount on a full liquid test kit I think out of sympathy - but they are rewarded by my loyalty even whn some items there are a touch pricier than large chain stores.

I was at he point of sticking my tank on ebay but now I look back it was a relatively short period of pain for hat has now been a couple of years of pleasure and interest.

Good luck and sick with it.

Jo

 

[pippoodle]

apii master test kit - i got mine for £20 posted on ebay so keep looking

 

[Charlieboy]

Yeah, thanks for that, I just got one on eBay for £15 delivered, so will put to good use ASAP.
Short update:
Babies are doing fine in main aquarium, with water tests for them at low ammonia, low nitrite/nitrate.
Hospital tank is getting thinner and thinner, neons dropping at about 2 a day, prob due to ammonia at edge of safe levels and nitrite/nitrate giving high readings. Twice daily water changes not effective so now having to increase.
This is my post but on partner's account.....lol

 

[Devorax]

I have come back to this thread as it was the one that got me in to this forum and I feel it is only appropriate to give an update on the current position, for the benefit of those that gave me such valuable advice in my earlier days of the hobby.
I have since acquired a 90l tank, and after ordering and installing an Eheim 2224, the 90l tank has:
1 Betta,
3 sailfin mollies (1m,2f)
4 zebra danios
4 pearl danios
1 BN Plec (only 3 cm long??)
5 BW Tetras
4 dwarf gouramis
1 apple snail
up to 9 shrimp ( can never see them though, so might all be dead)

The 60l tank has:
9 guppies (4m, 5f)
4 neons
4 rummie nosed tetras,
3 rasboras (2 def harlequins, not sure on 3rd)
13 mollie/guppy fry
1 apple snail

Is this finally more acceptable? We do intend to move the mollies over to the smaller tank when the fry are big enough to not get eaten by them, as there can be bullying from the mollie male toward the gouramis. We are really looking at getting a 4-5ft tank now and putting everyone in there though, would that be a better course of action?
My thanks again to everyone that gave me help on this thread.

 

[Marclau]

What happened to the Black Knives you mentioned earlier..............I know these also gorw very large similar to Clown Loaches..........did both the Black Knives and Loaches not survive??

I have a large 59 Gallon / 270 Litre tank and am hesitant to add these to my tank because of size........and I miss my Loaches (RIP)...........

 

[Devorax]

The BGKs didn't make it, one had mouth rot ( whitish grey lower lip area) and the other one slowly faded away with no external symptoms. I think this was due to chronic ammonia poisoning. The clown loach is still in the 90l, but I didn't mention him because he will be re-homed anytime now, whenever my partner says 'right we are going to see my friend today' then that is when he will go to live with 2 others in a bigger tank. It could be tomorrow, it could be next week, but I know it won't be very long now.
I am quite mad really, because I went back to the LFS that sold me the BGKs and they still have them up as max length 6 inches! It is the only place where I have seen such a claim! One thing I did notice though, was all BGK I have seen swim vertically head upwards in the water, mine behaved more like eels...

EDIT:We are still doing 2x40% daily water changes to the 90l whilst the Eheim matures. It has had a large amount of Filterstart added to it, but we still read ammonia so will continue to slog it out until it reads nil every day for a week. The 60l was only re-established last night, so will probably have to have similar work although the filter in there is matured, so might not be quite so hard....

 

[Marclau]

Happy to know you have stuck to it.........I know it all seems like such a problem at first and we've all been through it when first starting this hobby.

I have just had my tank totally wiped out but really enjoyed past 3 year without a hickup. So we will start again, and maybe different fish.
Were actually thinking of BGK's but hesitant. I also loved my Clown Loaches.......they were already around 12-15 cms (2 1/2 years old until i lost both of them last Friday.......

I dont think that 2x40% changes is necessary on a daily basis. I would simply do 30% each day............save some water..........and less hassle for you.......

Anyway, enjoy and keep up the posting.

 

[Devorax]

We feel it's necessary to do such heavy water changing because we frequently get readings (API Master kit) of 1ppm. There is a definite ammonia problem. Now that the tank has been half emptied of fish, and the filter is very big for the size of tank (250l handling on a 90l, slight overkill...lol), it shouldn't take long for it to stabilise. What got my biscuit though, was when all fish were in 90l over the weekend, I added ammolock, only to see ammonia RISE!! Grrrr, but once it's all done, it's done, no more worries......