A Few Start Up Questions

[Ostara]

Hello all, I'm getting pretty close to converting my bowfront to salt ( ) and I have a few last minute questions that I'd like input on.

First, the sand bed. I'm using fine aragonite and I don't want a DSB, but how deep should it be? I've heard that you either want 1 inch of depth or 4-6 inches, but nothing in between. Perusing salt forums however I've seen lots of people with a 2-3 inch sand bed, so I'm not sure how accurate that is. What do you guys think? Doesn't really matter to me one way or the other, as long as the bottom isn't piled up with sand.

Second, using cured live rock. I cannot for the life of me find a cohesive answer to this, probably because there isn't one. I am getting fully cured LR from my LFS; it will be in transport maybe 10-20 minutes before going in the tank. Obviously there won't be a bunch of decaying matter from shipping or like uncured rock would have, so how does this affect the cycle? I've read everything from "it won't go through a cycle and you're good to go" to "it will have to be completely cycled" and everything in between. Can anyone offer insight on using cured rock straight from the store?

Obviously it's sort of a case-by-case thing, so I'm thinking I'll try one of many methods I read and put a pinch of fish food in there after the rock is arranged, then test for ammonia, etc. once or twice a day to see what goes on. If I get any readings I'll obviously wait for them to disappear. I don't want to screw things up by either not waiting long enough or by waiting too long. Does this sound like a good way to go about it?

And third... where the heck am I supposed to put these powerheads? I've got two of them and I know that you're supposed to try to make sure that there's flow everywhere (no dead spots), but I'm not sure where to start, really. I'll probably be cleaning out the tank and getting the sand and powerheads in tomorrow or Saturday (or both, more likely), so do I just stick them in there and move them around until I work something out? After the sand has settled of course. I'm planning to wash the crap out of it since it's "sugar-sized." Can't be worse than washing Flourite, right?


Any feedback would be much appreciated to help me make some of these last-minute decisions. I think I'll start a journal on it too, since I've seen a ton of great advice on them and I'm sure I'll need some along the way.

Fish excitement abounds over here... even as I'm typing this two of my discus are spawning for the first time. Thankfully they made a rookie mistake and put them on the heater, so I won't be tempted to save any and make more work for myself while I'm trying to get this started!

 

[Donya]

Second, using cured live rock. I cannot for the life of me find a cohesive answer to this, probably because there isn't one. I am getting fully cured LR from my LFS; it will be in transport maybe 10-20 minutes before going in the tank. Obviously there won't be a bunch of decaying matter from shipping or like uncured rock would have, so how does this affect the cycle? I've read everything from "it won't go through a cycle and you're good to go" to "it will have to be completely cycled" and everything in between. Can anyone offer insight on using cured rock straight from the store?

The rock is really what cycles in marine tanks. If the rock really is cured, then you should still let it sit in the tank a few days while checking ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. You may get a spike, you might not. Even if there's no spike, the few days is a safety buffer. If there is no spike after a few days or when any spikes have settled, in with the CUC. If the rock is really baren-looking with no visible life, you may want to do similarly to what you said with the fish food and toss in a reasonably-sized piece of raw seafood. I like to use a pretty big chunk to make sure I get at least a little spike but not everyone does that and many people skip the test anyway. If the rock is really juicy-looking with lots of alage and sponges and stuff then you won't need to do that, but the added chunk of meat serves as a test for whether the rock has full bacterial colonies. For really baren rock, there may not be much there to cause dieoff in the first place, so it can look and smell cured when it's not, and it might take a bit more than a pinch of food to show that.

And third... where the heck am I supposed to put these powerheads?

You'll probably want to wait until the rock goes in and then fiddle with it. Watch particles flying around the tank and adjust accordingly.

 

[-Nemo-]

Sand I would do about 1.5-2" of. Generally a pound of sand per gallon is about right to get the depth you want.

 

[seffieuk]

Exciting isn't it but the sand goes in after the rock

Seffie x

 

[Stampos]

Personally I would go for a shallow sandbed, and add some snails such as Ceriths to help turn it over

I got my LR from local places and found that I had to wait around two weeks to begin stocking, certainly it could be sooner depending upon how cured your LR is but it's definitely a good idea to let things stabilise

In terms of powerheads I like to have one disturbing the water surface to aid gaseous exchange, and then others pointing at opposite ends of the tank aimed at the glass to create as much current as possible.

Simon

 

[Ostara]

Personally I would go for a shallow sandbed, and add some snails such as Ceriths to help turn it over

I got my LR from local places and found that I had to wait around two weeks to begin stocking, certainly it could be sooner depending upon how cured your LR is but it's definitely a good idea to let things stabilise

In terms of powerheads I like to have one disturbing the water surface to aid gaseous exchange, and then others pointing at opposite ends of the tank aimed at the glass to create as much current as possible.

Simon

Sounds good! I'll stick to my plans for a shallow sand bed and for testing the water for a while after the rock is in (Friday, hopefully). I was thinking something similar for the powerheads, so I'll mess with them a bit and see what I come up with. I'm definitely planning to aim one at the front glass as the curve of the tank creates a nice flow.

Exciting isn't it but the sand goes in after the rock

Seffie x

It's a matter of preference of course, but in my case the sand had to be first. If I were using uncured rock that would muck up the sand or a deep sand bed that I'd need to anchor the rocks in I'd have done rocks first, but with a shallow sand bed and the type of sand I'm using it needed to go in first. It's got the consistency of confectioner's sugar and would never come off of the rocks if I dumped it on top. It'll probably be a bit of a pain in my you-know-what in terms of getting blown about but it looks amazing... like a perfectly smooth Caribbean beach.

 

[HappyGeorge]

Greetings. Rock first then sand isn't really preference mate it's a case of necessity. If you're planning on keeping snails, hermits, gobies, blennys, wrasses and they all decide to dig underneath and bury themselves under a rock you could suffer a) buried livestock b) a cracked tank due to rockfall. If you have rock in any aquarium you always put it in first and then add the sand using a length of pipe so you can aim it where you want it.

If the sugar sand sticks to the rock without blowing off then you have either a dead spot in the tank or just not enough flow.

 

[Ostara]

Greetings. Rock first then sand isn't really preference mate it's a case of necessity. If you're planning on keeping snails, hermits, gobies, blennys, wrasses and they all decide to dig underneath and bury themselves under a rock you could suffer a) buried livestock b) a cracked tank due to rockfall. If you have rock in any aquarium you always put it in first and then add the sand using a length of pipe so you can aim it where you want it.

If the sugar sand sticks to the rock without blowing off then you have either a dead spot in the tank or just not enough flow.

That's what I meant with the deep sand bed thing. If I were using a deep sand bed I would definitely put the rock in first to anchor it, or do as others do and put a bit of sand, then rock, then the rest of the sand, but as I'm not it'll be easy to get the rock touching the bottom just by wriggling it a little in the inch or so of sand. Heck, it's shallow enough that I could shove the sand out of the area and then mound it back if I felt the need. When I was researching it on reef forums it seemed about 50/50 as to people putting sand or rock in first, but another thing others mentioned that concerned me was the rock sliding or collapsing on a bare-bottomed tank without sand to anchor it. I plan to stack it and don't have eggcrate to put it on, so I wasn't taking any chances. I did research what others did and consider all of this before I decided.

 

[Donya]

Heck, it's shallow enough that I could shove the sand out of the area and then mound it back if I felt the need.

That's how I would do it when doing things in this order, since it avoids grinding anything sharp into the bottom while trying to push the rocks down. You also know for sure that the rock is touching the bottom in a stable configuration before the sand goes around it.

As far as the order of items in, as far as I can see it shouldn't matter as long as load-bearing rocks and any isolated weighty rocks are actually touching the bottom of the tank in a stable position at the end of the day. The main issue with sand first then rocks I would assume is that there is a tendency to be lazy and let everything sit on top of the sand. If the intent is to put the rocks on the very bottom regardless of order, it should just a matter of how much time you want to sink into digging sand out of the way to make it so. I have done both orders and haven't seen a big difference with shallow beds, but it really does become a bit of a nuissance to dig all the sand out of the way with deeper beds.

 

[HappyGeorge]

Of course it's entirely up to you but I had never heard of or considered sand first, but I suppose if you're planning to brush it all aside to let the rocks sit on the bottom then there won't be a problem, just seems like a lot of hard work and a big sand storm. I just know when I'm sitting watching my Chalk Goby trying to force himself under a rock that for my own sanity I would want to be sure without any doubt that it wasn't being propped up by any sand.
Time for the best bit soon then, the aquascaping