2Nd Tank Advie

[broox159]

Thanks so much for your help minnnt! What about Golden Rams? Are they like Bolivians?

 

[minnnt]

Nope, they're just a colour morph of the blue rams, as are the electric blues. Do some research mate, they like a higher temperature which may limit your choice of other fish should you wish to do that. Alot of people do keep them around 26 celcius though with very good results.

I have seen a pair tonight that looked fantastic... Made me want some, but i just haven't got the tank space unfortunately.

If considering Apisto's then the list is fairly long. Agassizi and Cacatuoides are the more commonly available ones and are amongst some of the most colourful ones too. They prefer acidic conditions of around 6-6.5 but will tolerate slightly higher levels.

 

[KittyKat]

Thats what the other person said, but can i just say that none of my fish fight, at all....

So how can you tell that the larger fish are not stunted? How can you tell that their behaviour is normal? How do you know that you won't come back to dead fish one day because one has changed its mind about not fighting?

There are three problems I see there: large fish in a tank which is too small, schooling fish in small groups and fish with high con-familiar territorial aggression. The latter of the three tends to come out with time and happens without warning.

 

[broox159]

Thats what the other person said, but can i just say that none of my fish fight, at all....

So how can you tell that the larger fish are not stunted? How can you tell that their behaviour is normal? How do you know that you won't come back to dead fish one day because one has changed its mind about not fighting?

There are three problems I see there: large fish in a tank which is too small, schooling fish in small groups and fish with high con-familiar territorial aggression. The latter of the three tends to come out with time and happens without warning.

So what would you suggest? Which of my fish do you class as "large" fish??

 

[CezzaXV]

The problem with your community tank is this: imagine being in a room crammed with people of all nationalities, none of which speak the same the same language as you or each other.

Just because there are lots of fish in your tank doesn't mean they don't feel lonely. Pretty much all the fish on your list minus the betta would be much happier if they were in a group with several more of their species. Just because they're not fighting doesn't automatically mean theyre happy.

 

[broox159]

The problem with your community tank is this: imagine being in a room crammed with people of all nationalities, none of which speak the same the same language as you or each other.

Just because there are lots of fish in your tank doesn't mean they don't feel lonely. Pretty much all the fish on your list minus the betta would be much happier if they were in a group with several more of their species. Just because they're not fighting doesn't automatically mean theyre happy.

Ok, i see your point. So i have 4 swordtail, 3 adults 1 fry, 4 honey gourami and 4 Black phantom tetra, what SHOULD the minimum number for these be? Other than that i have my betta and my pleco....

 

[KittyKat]

So what would you suggest? Which of my fish do you class as "large" fish??

I suggest that you do some more research about the fish you have, find out why some should be kept in certain number, why others don't mix well, etc. Pick the species you like best and dedicate yourself to providing an ideal environment for them.

Swordtails (females have the potential to grow to over 5 inches / 13 cm long, depending on the species/hybrid) and bristlenose plecos (males have the potential to grow to over 5 inches / 13 cm long, depending on the species/hybrid) grow too large for the tank to be able to do much more than go around in circles.

Ok, i see your point. So i have 4 swordtail, 3 adults 1 fry, 4 honey gourami and 4 Black phantom tetra, what SHOULD the minimum number for these be? Other than that i have my betta and my pleco....

The absolute minimum for the tetras is 6 per species, but 10-15+ is better.
The swordtails should have a larger tank.
If there is more than one male honey gourami, they will probably eventually fight to death. On the other hand, they are social fish and do best in groups, so a few females with a single male works well.
Keeping male and female Bettas together almost always results in dead fish unless the tank is very large. Bettas are a type of gourami, so the male is likely to have a go at the honey gouramis when he feels like breeding.

It doesn't matter if they don't fight now, unless you have exceptional fish (the chances of which are less than one in a million), either they will suffer through stress or you will come home to dead fish one day.

 

[broox159]

My Pleco at the moment is only about 1.5 inches long, when he does get bigger i will move him. I am planning on getting bigger tanks in the future but where i am living at the moment it is impossible. I wasnt aware that Swordtails grew to 5 inches, and as you suggested perhaps i should have done more research. Again, if these get too big i will rehome them.

Perhaps i need to relook at my complete stocking.

For the tank i already have established, a 64L tank, the length being 24 inches, what would you suggest? Bearing in mind i dont really want it to look too empty.

 

[KittyKat]

For the tank i already have established, a 64L tank, the length being 24 inches, what would you suggest? Bearing in mind i dont really want it to look too empty.

How about something along the lines of:
6 black phantom tetra
1m 3f honey gourami
swordtail fry
(moving the rest of the fish to the new tank)

Then, add shrimp and/or 6 dwarf Corys OR a pair of rams (assuming water quality is suitable). Corys should ideally have sand, so if you have gravel, it would be better to go for some snails instead (although these should only go in if your pH is over 7.0). Cherry shrimp are a nice option. Shrimp and rams will benefit from the tank being moderately heavily planted.

That still leaves space to potentially increase stocking to 8-10 tetras and 8-10 Corys for the long term, depending on how many swordtail fry you expect to have and the exact set-up details.

If you were wondering which fish go well in a tank that size in general, I created a list here (it also lists suitable Cory species): http/aquariumadventure.wordpress.com/species-for-a-60-litre-aquariums/ (obviously, not all species are compatible and some have special requirements).

It is possible for you to have more fish in the tank, but you would need to switch to smaller species and add plants.

 

[broox159]

For the tank i already have established, a 64L tank, the length being 24 inches, what would you suggest? Bearing in mind i dont really want it to look too empty.

How about something along the lines of:
6 black phantom tetra
1m 3f honey gourami
swordtail fry
(moving the rest of the fish to the new tank)

Then, add shrimp and/or 6 dwarf Corys OR a pair of rams (assuming water quality is suitable). Corys should ideally have sand, so if you have gravel, it would be better to go for some snails instead (although these should only go in if your pH is over 7.0). Cherry shrimp are a nice option. Shrimp and rams will benefit from the tank being moderately heavily planted.

That still leaves space to potentially increase stocking to 8-10 tetras and 8-10 Corys for the long term, depending on how many swordtail fry you expect to have and the exact set-up details.

If you were wondering which fish go well in a tank that size in general, I created a list here (it also lists suitable Cory species): http/aquariumadventure.wordpress.com/species-for-a-60-litre-aquariums/ (obviously, not all species are compatible and some have special requirements).

It is possible for you to have more fish in the tank, but you would need to switch to smaller species and add plants.

Ok, I am planning on changing to sand today when i get my new tank. I was going to put water and fish into new tank without substrate etc and redo the old tank so that isnt a problem.

I dont much like the look of cory's...i dont know why...anything else besides them?

Did you mean to add the Rams to the old or new tank?

I was really hoping to have a pair of Rams and/Or a trio of Apiso's.....

 

[KittyKat]

I dont much like the look of cory's...i dont know why...anything else besides them?

Not really, you have surface dwellers in the gouramis, mid-water fish in tetras and nothing on the bottom. Once you get the tetra numbers up, there won't be much space for anything else mid water and nothing surface dwelling would be any good with the gouramis in the long term.

Did you mean to add the Rams to the old or new tank?

I meant for the 64 litre. They would be better in the new tank, but if you make the stocking changes I suggest, they should work in the old tank alongside the tetras and gouramis.

I was really hoping to have a pair of Rams and/Or a trio of Apiso's.....

Well, Bettas are usually not compatible with Apistogramma or rams.. and you are almost guaranteed to have problems if you keep the two Bettas in the small tank (even in the big tank, there are likely to be problems). So the only way I can see that working, without another tank for the male Betta is if the small tank has this stocking:
* 1m 3f honey gouramis
* 6-10 black phantom tetras
* 1m 1f rams (try to get a pair, not a male and a female)
(* swordtail fry?)

and in the big tank:
* 1m 2f swordtails
* 1m 1f Bettas (this one is really making me cringe still, I can count the number of times I have heard of this working on the fingers of one hand)
* 1 bristlenose
(* swordtail fry?)
..and whichever new stock.

If you get another tank for the male Betta (5-10 gallon), then you could try something like this with the big tank:
* 1m 2f swordtails
* 1f Betta
* 1 bristlenose
* 1m 2-3f Apistogramma of one harem species
* 15 tetras of one species
(* swordtail fry?)

 

[broox159]

Thanks for all the tips! I shall look into switching fishes around.

What Tetra would you suggest to go with the Apisto's in the new tank? Would it just be easier to rehome my female betta? Although i would hate to as she is really pretty....

 

[KittyKat]

What Tetra would you suggest to go with the Apisto's in the new tank? Would it just be easier to rehome my female betta? Although i would hate to as she is really pretty....

Apistogramma and male Bettas are not compatible, so the male will have to go regardless of what you do with the tank. The Apistos are extremely likely to shred a male Betta without any warning one day, if the two are mixed.

I didn't see that you said your new tank was a 60*35 cm foot print, so the big tank is actually small too. Please disregard the previous suggestion and here is a new one…
Small tank:
* 1m 3f honey gouramis
* 6-10 black phantom tetras
* 1m 1f rams (try to get a pair, not a male and a female)
(* swordtail fry?)

Big tank:
* 1m 2f swordtails (try to get him a 3+ft tank)
* 1f Betta
* 1 bristlenose (try to get him a 3+ft tank, I wouldn't feel comfortable mixing with Apistos or rams in a tank this size)
* 1m 1f Apistogramma of a pairing species (try to get a pair, not a male and a female) - NOT compatible with the male Betta
* 15 tetras of one species from this list (NB: look only at tetras! and avoid smaller ones): http/aquariumadventure.wordpress.com/species-for-a-60-litre-aquariums/
(* swordtail fry?)

 

[broox159]

Thanks!

I dont know if these are too small but i like the Danio Margaritatus. Would they be ok in the big tank?

Can the Male Betta not stay in the small tank with the Rams, Gouramis and Phantom Tetras?

 

[soybean]

A male betta AND rams AND a gourami is asking for trouble.