29g Planted Tank...i Will Need Help (failed The Last Time)

[ryguy]

Ok, I had tried a long tme ago to get a planted tank and failed miserably. That's the last time I will listen to my LFS on how to plant tanks. They sold me expensive horrible lights to grow plants in. When I put plants in they died and I had to buy more, their origional intention. Anyways, I ended up with a bare tank full of snail that I couldn't get rid of. I ended up disassembeling my whole tank. boiled the gravel, scrubed/ powerwashed the tanks and boilded the wood. All is well now and the fish are still healthy that I have left. Now I am ready to try again and am looking for GOOD advice. I have a 29 gallon tank and am looking for a simple design. I uploaded a picture showing my tank with the driftwood (webcam used so not best quality). I am looking to create a riccia carpet over the majority of the bottom and having a large java sword in the left corner with maybe another tall plant on the right near the heater. I have a HOB filter which I know is a disadvantage but I don't have the money to change that; the money will be going to a light system. My main question are: How many watts per gallon will I need for the riccia and other plants. I am guessing around 3-4 WPG? As for the lighting, I would greatly appreciate if anyone could send me links of lighting fixtures I could get that would work well for what I am looking for. Please include the types of bulbs I should get as well. I know that I shouldn't use acentic lighting. As for the CO2, I was thinking of creating a basic DIY co2 injector which I believe shouldn't be a problem as it is a small tank. I will greatly appreciate any comments and advice/critisism. Thanks again!

 

[bagu]

rightt

i believe its 1 WPG, then you need Co2 and liquid ferts
I personally would change gravel to sand if you can, and get the layer underneath the sand with some nutrients in (someone with more knowledge will explain more i hope )

ermmm i have riccia, without ferts and grows like a weed, under approx. 2-3 wpg i believe, ill check when i get home. You could try java moss, or christmas moss tied to the wood, i think it would look stunning

i have DIY Co2 in my tank, you might need to have 2, 2L, but tbh my tank for some reason without ferts, maybe lighting issues aswell; all my plants grow too much lol =/ i brought 1 stem of this plant, after about a month now, its taken up (with trimmings) around half my tank, so its profit to be made lol )

ANYWAY! best of luck mate dont know if i was helpful XD

 

[ryguy]

I have a very small grained gravel as well as eco complete that is mixed in with it (i will be buying more eco complete to create a moe hill effect). What suggestions for landscaping would you make? Like should I keep the wood and what type of plants should I use? I am looking at about 4wpg and a DIY CO2 system with a HOB filter and there will 1 2 liter bottle that is for the co2 system? Should this be ok?

 

[ryguy]

one other thing, as I said before, I had to boil my gravel and then I had to wash it out letting a lot of the water in and out between boils. Could I have depleted the nutrients from the eco complete. I got rid of a lot of cloudy water which I am afraid myay have carried away the nutrients, but the eco complete is still there, just mixed in with the gravel. Is this a problem? Also, what type of liquid ferts do you suggest?

 

[fatheadminnow]

one other thing, as I said before, I had to boil my gravel and then I had to wash it out letting a lot of the water in and out between boils. Could I have depleted the nutrients from the eco complete. I got rid of a lot of cloudy water which I am afraid myay have carried away the nutrients, but the eco complete is still there, just mixed in with the gravel. Is this a problem? Also, what type of liquid ferts do you suggest?

Usually 2 WPG+ you want to inject Co2, fertilizers can be added with any amount of light.

I would say no to the depleted nutrients. If the eco complete is still there, all should be good.

I would recommend Flourish made by Seachem for a good fertilizer.

You also need a good drop checker so you always know the level of Co2 you have in your tank.

With the lights you are going to have, you want around 30 ppm of Co2 in your tank.

A 2L bottle may last for about 2 weeks before it needs to be replenished.

-FHM

 

[ryguy]

Will this be good lighting to get? http/www.amazon.com/dp/B0002DIFSY/ref=as...mp;linkCode=asn

As for a diffuser, what are some good types of diffusers. Links would be appreciated. As for the eco complete, I have about 20 pounds and will buy another 20 pounds as well. I will have the tubing of the CO2 run into my HOB filter and what is the suggested micture for the DIY co2? Thanks again for all the quick responding.

 

[fatheadminnow]

130W, That is a lot of light! Is there always two bulbs running, or does it just include another bulb? it there is two bulbs at once, you have to keep a high level (30 ppm) of Co2 constantly maintained.

I would not suggest in a DIY Co2 pump for that kind of lighting, that is if it is 130W all the time, but if done properly it should be okay.

Here is the Co2 diffuser you want to get!

http/cgi.ebay.com/Nano-CO2-diffuser-Live...93%3A1|294%3A50

-FHM

 

[ryguy]

what i was planning on doing would be to have one run ,most of the day and then have a boost to 130 for an hour or so to represent the bright and lower light periods of the day

 

[fatheadminnow]

what i was planning on doing would be to have one run ,most of the day and then have a boost to 130 for an hour or so to represent the bright and lower light periods of the day

Okay, I never heard of anyone doing that before, but I guess you will have to experiment and see what happens.

I am sure all will be fine, just try to maintain a healthy level of Co2 in you tank.

If plants get too much light, and not enough Co2 in relation to how much light they are getting, then the plants will not be able to perform photosynthesis properly, and they will most likely die off.

-FHM

 

[SuperColey1]

What lights do you have that the 'horrible' LFS told you would work?

I wouldn't think it was a light problem that made your plants die!!!

Riccia will grow under any light but requires ferts and preferably CO2 Being a liverwort it sucks up nutrient.

Flourish is good for trace elements however trace elements are only a teeny fraction of the nutrients needed. It has no NP in it. You will have to use either Seachem Nitrogen and Phophurus or ditch the lot and go for dry powders and make your own solutions.

AC

 

[ryguy]

What lights do you have that the 'horrible' LFS told you would work?

I wouldn't think it was a light problem that made your plants die!!!

It was a combination of wrong advice on plants. The light was a 20watt light that would emmit light in only the green spectrum...haven't been able to find the style of bulb anywhere but at that store. It cost me $30 and swore to me it was all the light I would need and then told me I could buy plants from any light needs so I choose many that required around 2-3 watts. they all died of course. He told me I wouldn't need CO2 as well. I wont reveal the store I went to though because besides plant advice, the people there are very good.

Also, after more research, I think I may just go with the 65 watt fixture here: http/www.coralreefsupply.com/index.php?a...&detail=499 It is much cheaper and If I need a little more light, I can always add my 18watt light that came with the tank because as the 65 watt is in a small fixture, I would have room to add another. This would cut my costs and allow me to invest in more nutrients and soil for the plants.

Also, what measurments of the sugar, and water and yeast are used in a 2 liter bottle to make the most efficient DIY co2 reactor? I have also ordered the diffuser. Would normal piping work for the carrying of the CO2? Do I need anything else with the CO2. I am also goinig to be housing my few tetras and rasaboras I have in a ten gallon while I attemp this so I am in no way endagering them.

I think they light fixture I will order is the one in the link, but I want to hear your opinion first before I did. Better to be patient than be sorry.

 

[SuperColey1]

He may have guessed lucky or actually knows what he is talking about but he was right about the light although wrong in saying it would grow any plant without CO2!!!

If the light is indeed green (6500-8000K) then it is fine for plants. It will have enough red and blue peaks in it for them. I have grown plants fine under 7500K on its own.

I would bet the ballast running the '20W' tube was only 15 or 18W therefore you were only getting 15 or 18W out of the light. With a dedicated reflector that would give you 0.6WPG which would grow the 'slower' plants like Anubias, Crypts and Ferns. However you could do with 2 18W/20W tubes and a ballast to match so you get the full 18W out of them (I haven't actually seen a 20W T8 ballast so I don't know if this is just a marketing hype!!!) I would however get a pink to go with the green, not because of the plants needs, because it will balance the colouration better for you to look at.

No plant actually needs 2-3WPG although they do need the added extras that people use iwht 2-3WPG namely pressurised CO2 well distributed by high filter/pump turnover and ferts.

You can get away without CO2 with 36W T8 over a 29USG tank as long as the flow is good and ferts are added.

You will get into trouble with a PC tube!! definately need pressurised with that and they don't give very good light spread IMO.

My suggestion would be that you are struggling with the growing side of things. Get another T8 18W (20W if they want to call it that) and a cheap T8 controller to run it and then add some form of ferts like KNO3 and KH2PO4 and see how things go. Get used to growing plants before you blind them. You will only end up frustrated and selling your new lights off ata loss.

Have a read of this (may take a few days
http/www.barrreport.com/articles/433-non-co2-methods.html

and this:
http/www.barrreport.com/general-plant-to...some-cases.html

AC

 

[ryguy]

I will put the questions in number form, it will be easier to read/answer hopefully. Ok, I have been reading for about an hour (very good information). From what I am understanding, basically you are advising me to go in the non CO2 path. With this, the Eco complete would be good to use, but a thing called mulm is heavily advised.

1) Could you explain to me what this mulm is and will it tint the water like the Leonardite does because I am not going to put in Leonardite due to this tinting effect.

2) You are suggesting having around 1.2 wpg. Would it be more beneficial to add the green light + the red light you suggested as well as maybe another 18w white light (to give a more appealing look) to get about 1.8 wpg which is more around the range that was talked about in the forum link you sent me.
(here is the light in the picture; it reads CORALIFE 50/50 6000K/ACTINIC 03 F-20-T12-BP)

3) By doing this, I will not ever have to use a CO2 reactor, but it also talks about few fish. Will I be limited in how many fish I can have, or is it just suggesting that I should start out with those that will be beneficial to me by eating the algae? (This is being asked as once I establish the plants, I would like a school of rummy nose tetras as well as one angel fish along with maybe 3-5 corys)

4) because they suggest the nutrients to be added by the measure of every 20 gallons, I would multiply their measurements by 1.45 as the ratio suggests.

5) If I follow this idea, will this greatly limit the type of plants I would be able to have? I would like to have taller background plants (not sure on the types yet, maybe 2 or 3 different types) and a nice riccia carpet in the front (not the dwarf). I don't care about how long it will take to grow it as long as there is the fact that it is growing and in good health. Will I still be able to achieve the look I want by following what is suggested?

6) Any other suggested things would also be greatly appreciated.

7) one last thing I forgot to ask, what do they mean by water column?

8) also, you suggested a DIY light fixture, would I be able to create one that carries all three bulbs, or two if I just use the green and red? Also, are the moonlights beneficial or not really? Would you recommend using them?

 

[ryguy]

little added note, tested the light and with my luck burnt out. If this light will be benificial to me, I could obtain a new one

 

[SuperColey1]

Mulm is the dirty filter watr and the sponges squeezed out. when you relay a substrate you squeexe the filter media into the filter water and pour the lot in the bottom, then lay your substrate on top. This instantly seeds the substrate and avoids cycling. Leonardite IME doesn't tint the water. It is only a thin layer and would be underneath your Eco.

1.8WPG should be OK but would be more prone to algae. Generally the higher you go with lighting the harder it gets. Must use reflectors with lights though. 6000K is a daylight white K. It may give a green tint if the CRI rating is not so good. a 4500-5000 should balance the green out a little.

When they talk of a light fishload they are talking about the understood inch per gallon than non planted tend to go by. Planted folks (including myself ) tend to ramp up the fishload because their filters are larger and plants also deal with some of the waste.

A group of 6 corys (they like to be in a decent group) and 8 rummys would be fine. Angelfish should be in pairs really and even 1 angel at adult size would be equivalent to the whole school of 8 rummys!!!

Try 1.5x its easier. lol I think they suggest very small dosing 10% of EI or something like that. I'm sure hat is detailed somewhere in the 19 pages. lol

Nothing greatly limits the choice of plants. There may be a few high CO2 plants that are out of reach but most are OK under 1.2WPG - 2WPG within reason. You aren't going to have a HC carpet for example. Riccia should be OK but I would get the plant up and running and algae free first.

There are 2 terms substrate/sediment fertilising and water column fertilising. The former is pretty obvious. Eco complete provides nutrient to the plants via it's roots. Water column dosing is adding ferts into the water where the plants will take it in through their leaves. Water column dosing means the substrate isn't drained of nutrient and therefore will last longer. Eco Complete may even soak up some of the nutrient from the water column.

Not DIY really. You buy something like a Hagen Glomat which is basically a ballast unit that goes behind the tank or in the cabinet and has long cables with end caps. You screw some tube clamps into the canopy and then clip the end caps on the tube. then the tube is clipped into the tube clamps. a reflector will then clip onto the tube. Reflectors are bough seperately of course.

Moonlights are neither beneficial or detrimental. They are just there so outside of the photoperiod you can switch them on and watch the fish, then turn them off again. I wouldn't have them on all the time, just when you want to see things

The tube you have is OK but may find a better deal in your local hardware store. aquarium lights are no different to normal lights. The difference is the end caps which are part of your hood/setup. Check out your local hardware store and see what K ratings they have. You will probs find they are much much cheaper. Costs a lot to print AQUARIUM on lights

AC