13 weeks cycling fish in down the drain.....cycle reset

[Slaphppy7]

1 SMALL fish for fish in cycles. Feed every 3 days.

More fish can be done, but for first timers to the hobby, 1 small fish is all you need. Just something in there producing food for the good guys. After a month, if all is good, you can add another fish, then monitor.

Goldfish aren't that bad. They can be "dirty" fish, but most times, it's overfeeding. People always want to make sure their little.fella is getting enough to eat, forgetting that 3 feedings a day ain't how nature works. We had a feeder one time grow to about 6 inches. Didn't cause any overloads in the tank. Was the craziest goldfish I ever saw.

As.for washing.media in tap.water......

If you need to clean your filter element, you're over feeding. Either that or you're over stocked.

That being said...

When I do clean mine, I use tap water every time.

The bacteria on your filter element in an established tank isn't your main source of conversion. Once your tank is established, you should be able to change entire filters without issues.

I will never understand why people have this massive obsession with filters. They provide more than just their miniscule bacterial conversion of chemicals.

"The bacteria on your filter element in an established tank isn't your main source of conversion. Once your tank is established, you should be able to change entire filters without issues."

Any links you can provide from reputable sources to back up this claim?

 

[Fishiemang]

"The bacteria on your filter element in an established tank isn't your main source of conversion. Once your tank is established, you should be able to change entire filters without issues."

Any links you can provide from reputable sources to back up this claim?

Myself. Done it multiple times. Your BB colonies are in your substrate and.on plants and decor. Anyone with a bio wheel setup knows how.reliable that wheel spinning is....like never. And every few months if you don't tear them all the way down and clean them out, the gunk buildup will cause destruction of the filter.....

So...my evidence is that I have done.complete filter changes and cleanings multiple times with no ill.effect on an established tank.

 

[Slaphppy7]

I'll keep doing what works for me, and most others.

 

[AbbeysDad]

"The bacteria on your filter element in an established tank isn't your main source of conversion. Once your tank is established, you should be able to change entire filters without issues."

Any links you can provide from reputable sources to back up this claim?

How about 50+ years in the hobby? In a new tank, beneficial bacteria may colonize a filter first, but in time, the substrate contains far more than in any filter. Oh the folks that sell expensive filter bio-media want you to think that it only lives there, but it's just not so. Consider the following:

The Very Best Aquarium Filter – MJV Aquatics

mjvaquatics.com

 

[Slaphppy7]

How about 50+ years in the hobby? In a new tank, beneficial bacteria may colonize a filter first, but in time, the substrate contains far more than in any filter. Oh the folks that sell expensive filter bio-media want you to think that it only lives there, but it's just not so. Consider the following:

The Very Best Aquarium Filter – MJV Aquatics

mjvaquatics.com

I'm no millionaire, but I don't consider this "expensive", especially since it lasts practically forever

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HHSG5M/?tag=ff0d01-20

What about tanks with NO substrate?

 

[AbbeysDad]

I'm no millionaire, but I don't consider this "expensive", especially since it lasts practically forever

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HHSG5M/?tag=ff0d01-20

It can be over time if you consider that manufacturers recommend discarding half every month or so as they realize that detritus coating renders the media ineffective...I know, most hobbyists just use it forever...but by then the substrate and hardscape becomes the real bio-filter.

What about tanks with NO substrate?

Yes there are thousands of large fishrooms, many with bare bottom grow out tanks (I have a couple myself), dependent on air driven sponge filters. But most are also dependent on large routine partial water changes to keep the freshwater fresh. Filters make water clearer, but not any cleaner or more pure. Plants and advanced bio-filtration in a deeper substrate gives us a bigger advantage in maintaining a healthy Eco-system.

Edit-Footnotes:
I once believed the marketing hype about commercial bio-medias and I used many of them. But then you have to ask how does a sponge filter alone do the job just fine? So bio-sponge is every bit as good or better than ceramics, plastics, and pumice lave rock. I came to realize that my real bio-filtration was happening in the substrate. ALL of my filters now only contain sponge material serving as mechanical filtration and they are aggressively cleaned in established tanks as necessary.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

it appears after numerous water changes and many newbie mistakes, my tank cycling has reset after 13 weeks. very disappointing and some lesson learned:

1. added too many fish almost all at once (initially 2 goldfish, then 2 weeks later another 2)
2. fed too much, and subsequently too much waste
3. cleaned out filter and media with tap
4. remove too many rocks/stones/decor, which inadvertently removed the growing nitrifying bacteria

needless to say, it's been disappointing and frustrating process along the way....

Sorry to hear about your bad experience.
I guess it's tough especially when you chose to keep Goldfish which will grow large, eat a lot and require high maintenance.

If you want something easier, go for smaller fish that have low bio-load.
Otherwise, the only solution is more frequent & large water changes each week.
In future, you can consider bigger tank.
Don't give up.
All the best.

 

[Slaphppy7]

@AbbeysDad
I assume this is your tank? So, if you only use sponges in those 2 HOB's, you rinse those sponges in chlorinated tap water, with no ill effects on the cycle, correct?

 

[Fishiemang]

I have....every time.

For the beginner, you want to leave that filter alone for a while. Sure. But after a while, the tank becomes what it needs to maintain. The filter is more for mechanical filtration and oxygenation.at this point. Even fancy biowheel setups aren't needed really. I know because I run 4 of them and the wheels only spin after the filter itself gets a.good cleaning. After a couple weeks, there is a reduced flow from buildup that simply isn't enough to spin it. In the Emperor 400, their design relies on tiny holes in a tube to provide power to turn the wheels. These clog constantly. They provide a brush for cleaning them out...usually every couple weeks.

As for media, I have moved away from purchasing the cartridges. I found a decent low cost alternative. Carbon sponges. You can buy a big sheet, and cut to fit your own cartridge and yes, I rinse it out under the tap every time.

You gotta realize tho, I also.don't do water changes like people would think needed. I'm going to start a.series in one of my tanks here today, but only cause the TDS is.crazy high. Otherwise, I just add as it evaporates.

I.too have been doin this for a very long time, both freshwater and marine.

 

[Slaphppy7]

The "biowheels" are garbage, no argument there.

 

[AbbeysDad]

@AbbeysDad
I assume this is your tank? So, if you only use sponges in those 2 HOB's, you rinse those sponges in chlorinated tap water, with no ill effects on the cycle, correct?

Actually, I have untreated well water, but I would clean the sponges in tap water if it was chlorinated. Again, their purpose is mechanical filtration only and although there's no chlorine, I do clean them thoroughly in rather HOT tap water. With plants, especially the fast growing floating water sprite, AND the 3-4" pool filter sand substrate (that has not been disturbed except by Malaysian Trumpet Snails in over 8 years) I don't need any bio-media or beneficial biology in the filters - it's in the tank, primarily the substrate. There's acres more surface area for BB in nearly any substrate than could possibly exist in any filter bio-media.
Note: the 2nd HOB was added years ago, with a small impeller for a slow flow and initially loaded with Seachem Matrix and De*Nitrate to attempt to culture anaerobic bacteria. It was clear after a year or so that the experiment failed so the pumice was swapped out for sponges. I could probably remove the filter if I had a need elsewhere.

 

[AbbeysDad]

One additional note regarding cycling a new tank that's often overlooked...
It seems counter-intuitive but ammonia at higher levels is not only toxic to fish, but ALSO toxic to the beneficial bacteria we rely on to oxidize it into nitrite and nitrate. So if ammonia levels get high, BB is killed, stalling/stopping the cycle!!!

 

[Slaphppy7]

Actually, I have untreated well water, but I would clean the sponges in tap water if it was chlorinated. Again, their purpose is mechanical filtration only and although there's no chlorine, I do clean them thoroughly in rather HOT tap water. With plants, especially the fast growing floating water sprite, AND the 3-4" pool filter sand substrate (that has not been disturbed except by Malaysian Trumpet Snails in over 8 years) I don't need any bio-media or beneficial biology in the filters - it's in the tank, primarily the substrate. There's acres more surface area for BB in nearly any substrate than could possibly exist in any filter bio-media.
Note: the 2nd HOB was added years ago, with a small impeller for a slow flow and initially loaded with Seachem Matrix and De*Nitrate to attempt to culture anaerobic bacteria. It was clear after a year or so that the experiment failed so the pumice was swapped out for sponges. I could probably remove the filter if I had a need elsewhere.

So...no "stealing" of a bit of biomedia from an established tank's filter to jump-start a new cycle in a different tank, then...

 

[Slaphppy7]

One additional note regarding cycling a new tank that's often overlooked...
It seems counter-intuitive but ammonia at higher levels is not only toxic to fish, but ALSO toxic to the beneficial bacteria we rely on to oxidize it into nitrite and nitrate. So if ammonia levels get high, BB is killed, stalling/stopping the cycle!!!

Yep, that's the problem many beginners face when starting a new cycle with pure ammonia...overdosing the ammonia to begin with...

 

[Essjay]

That's why we always stress to add no more than 3 ppm ammonia


Until a year or two ago, i was always a firm believer that the bacteria lived in the filter. Then two things happened.

My main tank has been running for 7 years, but the filter, substrate and decor came from a smaller tank when I upgraded. I've had slow growing plants for many years, and around 2016 added water sprite, which I've now replaced with frogbit.
A couple of years ago I forgot to turn the filter on after a water change and only found out a week later when I came to do the next water change. My reaction was to grab my test kit - but there was no trace of ammonia or nitrite in the water.
At the end of 2019 I saw some fish that I wanted to buy so I went home and set up my quarantine tank. I took some media from my main tank and to be on the safe side I added 3 ppm ammonia. Before going buying the fish, I tested the QT. 3 ppm ammonia. Next day 3 ppm. And the next day and the day after that. I ended up doing a 7 week fishless cycle by which time all the fish I wanted had been sold

These incidents tell me that I have few, if any, bacteria in my filter media.

When I set up the QT again late last year I didn't bother with any mature media. I took the last bit of water sprite from my main tank then went to the shop and bought fish and 2 bunches of elodea (anacharis) which I left floating in the QT. I tested every day and never saw any ammonia even with 12 kuhli loaches in an overstocked 25 litre/6.6 gallon tank.


But I still don't dare clean the filter media in tap water.