Dennerle Co2 system

Hi All,

I am thinking of buying an CO2 system for my planted tank and wondered if anybody has used the Dennerle 588 comfort automatic ph controller and whether it was successful or not. I was thinking my fish might fair a little better if the plants grow well and the ph is kept stable at probably around 6.7 with my KH of 4. What do you guys reckon and do you know of any problems with keeping Apistogrammas with higher CO2 levels.

Cheers

Apisto.

I dont know about the fish - but the planst would love it

what sort of lighting do you have?
Lighting is the first step to getting plants to grow well. without light the rest just wont help.

Nice photo.

I would definitely go for it if you can afford it. I'd highly recommend their products, I use a lot of them in my setup with good, reliable results. Here's a recent photo of my Juwel Rio 125.

At pH 6.7, KH 4 gives you CO2 @ 27 mg/l. Should be fine, I beleive most fish are OK with less than 30 mg/l although I have little knowledge on Apistogrammas. The stability that the pH controller will give will be very benficial to your plants and fish. I wish I could afford one!!

Hi,

Thanks for the responses so far. Here are my full tank stats:

Size: Length 96" Width 18" Height 24"
Lighting: Dennerle Trocal Plant Bulbs x 10 = 380 Watts.
Filtration: Fluval 403, Fluval 404, Eheim 2218.
Heating: Rena 2 x 300 Watts.
Substrate: Silver sand mixed with duponit fertiliser & then Quartrz gravel.
Dennerle 75 Watt Heater cable.

pH: 7.5
kh: 4.0
gh: 9.0

I looked at another thread and there seems to be a problem with lowereing the pH if you have a low kh, presumably because of its instability. Do you know if i will need to increase my kh.

I have just checked my co2 chart and was initially thinking of of seting the pH to 6.8 and then with a KH of 4 i shoulfd have approximately 20mg/l.

Cheers

Apisto.

Very impressive setup mate. It's good to see another Dennerle advocate's work.

Personally I wouldn't raise your KH. 4 degrees is plenty high enough to keep your pH stable. My water's KH varies between 3 and 4 degrees (depending on my RO mix) and I have no problems with adding co2@ 20mg/l. Dennerle actually recommend a KH between 2 and 4 degrees. The pH controller will give to added stability too.

Another point to bear in mind is your fish (especially the Discus) and possibly plants wouldn't appreciate the extra hardness.

As a side; do you have the Dennerle Special-Plant bulbs (3000K)? Do you not find the light a little too orange? I've balanced mine out with a Life-Glo (6700K) and Arcadia Freshwater (7500K), giving a "fresher" colour.

Hope this helps and once again, awesome tank!

gf225 said:

As a side; do you have the Dennerle Special-Plant bulbs (3000K)? Do you not find the light a little too orange?

Click to expand...

Very nice setup

Answer to the aside... yes!

but its only in my 2ft tank - the other tanks have extra bulbs as you mention to lighten the tone

Very nice set up, hope my exploits with co2 turn out half as good.

gf225,

I actually meant tubes instead of bulbs, and I just use them on their own.

Notice though I chaet a little as I just stick to certain types of plants that seem to thrive in my aquarium. What does your setup consist of ? It's a very nice looking tank

Cheers

Apisto

I thought you meant tubes. The Dennerle Mercury Vapour bulbs are 120W each I think!!

My spec;
Tank :
Juwel Rio 125

Fish :
Pair of Silver Angels, 8 Cardinal Tetras, 8 Rummynose Tetras, 5 Otos, 2 Cory Julii, 2 Zebra Loach, 2 Siamese Algae Eaters

Plants :
Echinodorus bleheri, E. tenellus, Vallisneria torta var. rubra, Rotala indica, Hygrophila polysperma, H. stricta, Limnolphila sessilflora, Nymphaea japonicus, Cardimine lyrata, Microsorum pteropus, Vesicularia dubyana, Lysimachia nummularia, Eleocharis acicularis, Vallisneria spiralis

Water :
Nitrates <10mg/l, pH 6.8, GH 8, KH 4, Phosphate undetectable, approx. CO2 20 mg/l, Water change 30% per week 60:40 ro/tap with Dennerle fertilisers and additives.

Filtration :
Juwel internal, Fluval 204 external filled with bio-media and RowaPhos. Outputs directed to avoid co2 loss. Carbon removed for fertiliser use.

Lighting :
2 x 24" 18w T8 Dennerle Special-Plant (3000K)
1 x 24" 18w T8 Arcadia Freshwater (7500K)
1 x 24" 20w T8 Hagen Life-Glo (6700K)
1 x 30" 25w T8 Dennerle Special-Plant (3000K)

99 Watts total - 3 Watts per Gallon
All with reflectors. 10 hour (5 on 2 off 5 on) photo-period

Substrate :
Fine (1 - 3mm) inert gravel with laterite mix.
25W Rena-Cor heater cable, comes on with lights.

CO2 :
2 x Nutrafin Natural Plant System units using supermarket yeast and bi-carb. @ approx 20 mg/l

Do you guys have any algea problems?

I've got about 4Watts per gallon now and i am have problems controlling hair algae.

I've done the usual and have now resorted to algae treatment to get it back in line so i can fight it from a head start...

any tips.

I haven't had an algae problem in about 12 months (except for a little in my tennelus lawn). I've learnt to live with it, only the purist would notice anyway!!

There's no nice way of saying this but your tank must be unbalanced. IMO treat the cause of the unbalance rather than the symptom (destroying the algae with treatments). If you do use a treatment then I would strongly recommend ESHa Protalon 707, I have had success with it in the early days and all my fish and plants were fine.

HTH mate

Have you read this post, I've submittted some practical advice.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=70187&st=16

gf225 said:

I haven't had an algae problem in about 12 months (except for a little in my tennelus lawn). I've learnt to live with it, only the purist would notice anyway!!

There's no nice way of saying this but your tank must be unbalanced. IMO treat the cause of the unbalance rather than the symptom (destroying the algae with treatments). If you do use a treatment then I would strongly recommend ESHa Protalon 707, I have had success with it in the early days and all my fish and plants were fine.

HTH mate

Have you read this post, I've submittted some practical advice.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=70187&st=16

Click to expand...

no problem - It's a learning process after all

Its the ESHa 70 we are using

I think i may have caused this outburst myself i over dosed with fertilisers

I also dont like the ferts we're using as it is a genral mix (with no nitrates or phosphates in it)

Its called Easy Life - ProFito. any input on it?

I'm thinking of getting seperate ones so I can add what I need.

Smithrc,

Got to agree with gf225, the problem with algae isan unbalance in your tank and the only real way of successfully removing algae is to remove the cause. I'vemust admit I have learnt the hard way and if you just try to kill the algae you will always be fighting an uphill battle, IMO.

Gf225, Have you got any information on your "lawn" type plant, I think it is called tellenus ?? I wat to try and introduce a relatively hardy one onceI get my CO2 system up and running.

Cheers

Apisto.

Hi,

Just thought I should share this with you, does this confirm that your tank will still be stable even with a low KH, providing you carefully monitor the amount of CO2 that you add.

Myth: A Low KH results in a larger pH swing when adding CO2.

Many people are under the mistaken impression that a low KH results in large pH swings when adding CO2, while raising the KH will result in smaller pH swings. This is not the case. The KH will move the start and end pH values, but the pH swing will be the same for a given level of CO2. You can see this in the chart below, or using the calculation:
Case 1: Assume a KH of 15 degrees, and a starting CO2 level of 4.5ppm, which would result in a pH of 8.0. If we then add CO2, to increase the CO2 level to 28ppm, that would drop the pH down to 7.2, for a pH shift of .8.

Case 2: Assume a KH of just 1.5 degrees, and a starting CO2 level of 4.5ppm, which would result in a pH of 7.0. If we then add CO2, to increase the CO2 level to 28ppm, that would drop the pH down to 6.2, for a pH shift of .8, the exact same as in case 1.

GF225, this seems to back up what you have said.

Cheers

Apisto

apisto_uk2 said:

Gf225, Have you got any information on your "lawn" type plant, I think it is called tellenus ?? I wat to try and introduce a relatively hardy one onceI get my CO2 system up and running.

Click to expand...

Echinodorus tenellus. Commonly known as Dwarf Chain Sword and Micro Sword.

Should do just fine in your setup.

I bought mine from Greenline Aquatics - 25 plants quite cheap. They're supplied grown emerged (above water) so take a while to adjust to grow submerged, they eventually send off runners and form a nice lawn. Mine only grow to about 2" high and have a reddish tinge. There are a few types I believe.

They're a good indicator of iron content, they will go translucent if there's a deficiency. If successful you will need to thin them out and re-plant the healthiest plants every couple of months otherwise they smother one another.

HTH

The KH thing. Exactly!!