Betta sick

That’s my very favorite Betta variety, the old fashioned Cambodian Betta . Don’t ever keep Bettas with other fish , even females , it never works out . They are perfectly happy and content by themselves in their own personal aquarium . They don’t mind being alone one bit .

Hi I've had the tank over a year maybe bit longer actually and transfered everything over from a previous tank I have for about 2 years but my experience is still limited so greatful for all the help.

We had introduced a new platy and we ended up having so many fry and the tank became full with platys we have recently been able to remove them all except 3 and started to get interested in exploring with new fish which is why we enquired about the bettas. These are the only new fish added. I recently purchased some live plants and they were put in few weeks ago. Unfortunately they were no good and ended up being removed and we spent a long time cleaning up as they ended up like mush.

We empty around 1/3 to 1/2 of the tank and clean all the gravel every time. So it does get a good clean. I have noticed we are getting some algae growing but nothing too bad but this is a new change. I currently have one other platy that looks to be hanging around the bottom not quite looking itself either.

We have a fluval filter. Had this for around 3 to 4 months now.

I think we can rule out old tank syndrome and cycling issues, and you don't see fluctuating pH.

The pictures aren't the clearest but I don't see anything alarming with the fish. One platy (grey with red fins) looks swollen around the belly but if it's female it is probably gravid. Another platy (sunset) has stringy white pooh so the tank probably needs de-worming but worms wouldn't be causing quick deaths. The other sunset platy looks to have a white patch on it's tail that might need treatment? Hopefully @Colin_T will get chance to have a look as he has a lot more fish experience.

But I think it just leaves the betta as the probable problem. If you have/get a 5-10 gallon tank for it to be kept alone that could resolve things.

Naughts said:

I think we can rule out old tank syndrome and cycling issues, and you don't see fluctuating pH.

The pictures aren't the clearest but I don't see anything alarming with the fish. One platy (grey with red fins) looks swollen around the belly but if it's female it is probably gravid. Another platy (sunset) has stringy white pooh so the tank probably needs de-worming but worms wouldn't be causing quick deaths. Hopefully @Colin_T will get chance to have a look as he has a lot more fish experience.

But I think it just leaves the betta as the probable problem. If you have/get a 5-10 gallon tank for it to be kept alone that could resolve things.

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Agreed!

Thanks for the additional info, @Pennyangus ! Since you've had the tank set up for so long, and been through the LIVEBEARER EXPERIENCE where they pop out tons of babies until you're like "my tank is gonna pop, we need to sellrehome some of these fish! They can barely move!"

(You're not alone! 99% of us who've kept guppies/platies/mollies have been there, or are still there! I currently have one tank heaving with guppies and rehomed 20 or so the other day since it's heaving!


Glad to hear that, and yes, sounds like adding the bettas was the kick off problem, the Pets at Home employee gave you very bad advice to get two and for a community tank - they're also called Siamese Fighting Fish for a reason. In the wild they live alone, are territorial, not a social species at all, and better kept alone.

(I find it hard to sex bettas, but I got the sense the remaining blue one might be a male? What do you betta experienced folks think? @CassCats ? @Naughts ? but whether a male or female, it's pretty clear it killed the other betta and is very possibly, even likely, also bullying and potentially injuring other fish in the tank too.

Sorry about your loss of the other betta

I'd return or rehouse the betta. A 5-10 gallon tank suits a betta perfectly, and they don't need or want company, but will interact with you! And explore their own tank where they're happy to be alone, and your other fish won't be getting beaten up. Sometimes people report success with bettas in a community tank, but it always depends on the individual bettas personality, and some are more aggressive or laid back than others. Or it works for a while, until the betta turns on the other fish. Seems like the one you have would be better off alone!

Lots of us have followed store advice and regretted it, it sucks. Any good privately owned local fish stores in your area? Personal opinion - every PaH store I've seen, I wouldn't buy fish from. Always seen unhealthy, sickly, not well cared for fish, and their advice online and in person has always been bad. Just my experience with them. I get dog and parrot toys there, but nothing fish related! Maidenhead Aquatics tends to be better, at least the stores I've visited, and I've bought fish from them before and would again.

But always do your own research on a fish before you get it, and never just trust their advice on face value, too many of them have no idea and will do things like this, then when you go back saying you lost a fish or had a tank disaster, will then just try to sell you more fish or snake oil products to "fix" your worries about the tank, then cause you even more problems. There's so much misinformation and conflicting options and advice, so I know researching them and finding info you can trust is rough!

One reliable source for looking up fish and their requirements like minimum tank size, ranges for temp, pH, GH, tank mates etc, even breeding info; is Seriously Fish. Written by scientists and experts, and updated when needed, so you can trust the info there, and they have profiles on most of the species commonly found in the hobby.

The fish in the pictures look fine apart from the things mentioned by Naughts.

Move the remaining Betta out because it could be a male (as mentioned by AdoraBelle Dearheart). Males have a dark ovipositor (egg laying tube), females have a white one.

Need a clear picture of the platy with the white dot on the tail. It's probably excess mucous over a sore.

The tank needs deworming because platies and other common livebearers from Asian fish farms always have intestinal worms and every fish in the tank will probably have them.

Section 3 of the following link has information on deworming fish.

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The bloated pineconed headstander had an internal problem (internal bacterial infection or organ failure).

The white Betta was bashed and chewed on.

The dead platy could be anything.

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If you ever lose fish, do the following.
Test the water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. You did this and your water tests are fine but do the other things to reduce any disease organisms in the water.

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week or until the problem is identified. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens so any medication (if needed) will work more effectively on the fish.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

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When things have settled down I would add some floating plants like Water Sprite (Ceratopteris thalictrides/ cornuta) and maybe increase the number of cardinal tetras and danios so you have 8-10 of each. But wait until everything has been good for at least a month before adding new fish. And if possible quarantine new fish for a month before adding them to your main tank so you reduce the chance of introducing new diseases.

Wow response from you guys has been brilliant. It is so greatly appreciated. We always shopped at maidenhead aquatics and their advice was brilliant they were forever telling me no I couldn't have fish because of different reasons and their advice was definitely one I trusted however they closed down a few months ago. We have a local fish stop but sometimes their tanks look a bit questionable I may have to try a bit further afield next time.

I have not dewormed my fish thank you for the link ill look over this and do it asap.. I would say when a fish passes it definitely looks twice the size and bloated but no idea what is causing this could that be stress from the betta.

I will definitely give the glass a good scrub, we do filters and gravel every water change but due again in few days.

I would definitely love more plants but feel they are difficult to get going. In the past they have taken off quick but anything we've tried recently hasn't been taking off at all. Really struggle with plants I tend to buy easy to grow stuff and use root tabs. Any other advice

The tank did become over run with platys so we was keen to start bringing something new to make the tank interesting again I would like bigger groups of fish but our tank is 145L and wasn't sure how much we could have we currently have
1 headstander (I'm worried he is now alone)
3 Cory
2 Danios
5 shrimp
3 To 4 platy
3 cardinal tetra
1 bristlenose plec
1 butterfly or hill stream plec unsure which

Thanks for the reply about this fish. He definitely has white on his tail looks more obvious today. What do we think it is

The blue Betta appears to have a white ovipositor so I would say it's a girl. At this stage you have 2 options, move her into a spare tank or leave her be and see how they do over the next 2 weeks. I don't think she was responsible for the death of the headstander or platy but may have been the one who killed the white Betta. Personally I would monitor them and if there's no more deaths then it's fine. If more fish start having issues, then move her out. Having said that, if you get new cardinal tetras and they are small, she might go them.

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Water Sprite is easy to grow. You get 1 plant and let it float on the surface, After a few months you have heaps and can plant them in the substrate or leave them floating.

The following link has some basic info on growing aquarium plants.

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What are the tank dimensions (length x width x height)?

What is the GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate hardness) and pH of your water supply?
This information can usually be obtained from your water supply company's website (Water Analysis Report) or by telephoning them. If they can't help you, take a glass full of tap water to the local pet shop and get them to test it for you. Write the results down (in numbers) when they do the tests. And ask them what the results are in (eg: ppm, dGH, or something else).

If you have soft water and the tank is big enough (lengthwise), you should be able to increase the number of danios, tetras and Corydoras.

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The white on the tail looks like excess mucous covering a small red spot (probably a sore). If it's been like that for a few days and is getting worse, either add some salt or a broad spectrum medication that treats bacteria and fungus. I would try salt first because it's safer and cheaper. See directions below.

SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), swimming pool salt, or any non iodised salt (sodium chloride) to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for 1 to 2 weeks, maybe a bit longer if it's helping but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species. If it doesn't improve after a week with salt then stop using salt, post more pictures, and maybe get a broad spectrum medication.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket (2 litres) of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

Pennyangus said:

Do people not advise to keep 2 female bettas together then I had not seen any aggression so assumed maybe shrimp had taken advantage when it was sick on the bottom I am not sure what I have learnt from this

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My neon tetras have been dying off. One I knew didn't have much time left. It had a large growth and it was losing its color. The other day I looked in on my tank and immediately saw one of the amano shrimp swimming around carrying the body of this neon.
All this is to say that I have no doubt that when your fish died, the shrimp immediately set to work on it. Shrimp aren't predators but they certainly are scavengers.

Sorry my pictures are not great but tail looks odd shape. Could this be if it has been nipped

Thanks for everyone's advice. Those plants sounds good I will definitely get some of them. I'm not sure what's best to do for the betta I would like to keep it in the main tank as I don't have an alternative. I would have to buy a small one and I don't have much place for it. I've not seen it show any signs of aggression. Would I usually see this or could it be on a night time.

I am unsure on our water but my area is known for having very hard water so I'm very shocked as to why our tank is so soft at the moment

The platy's tail may have been nipped originally but it needs salt or some medication asap to stop it getting worse.

If the Betta is going to be aggressive, you should see it during the day. It will lunge at other fish, flare its fins at them, maybe try to physically bite them. If you see it doing anything like this to another fish, it will need to come out.

Pennyangus said:

Sorry my pictures are not great but tail looks odd shape. Could this be if it has been nipped

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Yes, could well be damage from another fish, which then allow secondary infections like fungal and bacterial infections to set in. Were both those photos taken on the same day? Because it looks worse in the second one.

Some tetra and barbs can be nippy too, going after other fish, especially if they don't have enough of their own species to keep them occupied and less stressed. However, the tetra you have are generally peaceful even if you only have a few of them, and you weren't experiencing this until the betta was added, so I'm sorry, beautiful betta, but knowing how bettas can be if they decide the whole tank i their territory, they will absolutely bully, injure and sometime kill other fish in the tank.

If you go to the search function, type "betta killed my" into the keywords part (include quotation marks) and search threads, you'll see example after example of bettas in community tanks killing other fish. These are the results!


They're not nasty fish at all. Just solitary and territorial, and doing exactly what they'd do in the wild to protect their bubble nests and fry (for males) and because once female bettas mature, they are also solitary and travel around, searching for males to spawn with. They don't live in one area with other fish, and also have that drive to chase other fish away and don't desire company the way shoaling species like tetra and corydoras do.

In the wild when a female finds a male and they both want to spawn, they'll mate, release eggs, often both collect them and place them in the bubble nest. But then the female will leave, and the male will fiercely guard the nest, the fry, and his territory. He'll chase off the female if she lingers for too long. Problem in our tanks is that the female can't just go her own way. So betta breeders are very aware of this, carefully introduce the fish and supervise, then get the female out of there when they're done, because he can easily kill her since she can't leave his territory and the bubble nest.

A "one-night stand" kind of fish Don't form long term bonds and remain together like some species, say a pair of angelfish do. But it works for them and their natural environment! They're labyrinth fish and can survive in conditions we'd never imagine. Fascinating fish, and personable in the way you can hand feed and interact with them.

Personally I'd recommend clearing a spot, searching on places like Gumtree and FB marketplace for a 5-10 US gallon (22 litres - 45 litres for us metric countries!) second hand tank that comes with equipment like filter, lights, heater. Lots of them available for cheap where people have tried and given up, or upgraded tanks and don't want the previous kit anymore. I wouldn't keep a betta in anything less than 5 US gallons/22L, and ideally larger. A 10g/45L is pretty idea, and can make a lovely little home for her!

I just bought a decent second hand little 7g tank on Gumtree for £20, and includes everything she wanted rid of, lol! So four small filters, airpump and ornaments that you can use as bubblers & decor, suitably sized heater, lights etc. A bargain, just needs a good clean, and at the moment I'm planning to pop it on the kitchen counter. Cleared a nice spot for him! (he's in a QT tank right now since I only got my betta end of July).



I haven't tested his temperament with things like shrimp or snails yet, but have to say, I'm used to feeding community tanks, even when I'm targeting certain foods for certain species. But having a single fish in a tank to feed - who comes to me for feeding whenever I'm near the tank (I have to tell him it's not dinner time everytime!) feels different, and I'm enjoying it.

And I'm someone who swore I'd never get a betta! Haha. Love him. Excited about the tank set up I'm making for him! This 12.5g tank he's in now is my old QT/grow out/nursery tank for guppy and cory fry. It's useful for those things, but light is so weak that no live plants last in it for long, even through they thrive in my other tanks:










I saw a cryptocoryne and perhaps an amazon sword in your tank? You said they turned to mush, I suspect you went through what's called "crypt melt". Nothing you did wrong, and if you'd left the roots in the tank, the crypt would likely have regrown. Can google "crypt melt" for more info, and how aquarium plants need to adjust when moved and replanted into a new tank, especially if they were grown out of water, and then have to convert to their underwater forms. Amazon swords commonly go through this, and the old leaves begin to die off, looks rough for a while, but with some light and nutrients, they're usually growing new, submerged and healthy leaves, and just don't need the old leaves anymore. It's not that the plant is dead or dying. Think of it like trees shedding leaves in Autumn and looking bare, until they burst out fresh new growth in Spring!

Crypt melt convinces a lot of people the plants are dead and they failed, but isn't something you did wrong. Just plants don't naturally move around in nature So being replanted, repotted, unpotted and planted into substrate means the plant needs time to settle in and get itself established, put out new growth again.
Lots of patience with planted tanks, and it's a learning curve! Just have to remember that plants take time to establish their roots and out out new growth, and will sometimes melt back but recover, or look a bit rough for a while as they adjust to their environment.

Last example - I set up this tank with plants and fish I bought at a local fish club event (much cheaper than stores, chance to meet other hobbyists, and healthy, beautiful, locally bred fish! Recommending finding fish clubs and events in your local area. I joined FB and BAND apps to find other local hobbyists and clubs, and we sometimes trade fish and plants too. )

Anyhow, I'd just left the plants floating in the QT after I bought then July 28th. But then moved the tank and set it up more like a proper tank, planting the plants and deeper substrate. Used Argos play sand - it's aquarium safe, super cheap, so don't mind if I have to chuck it from a QT tank if a disease or problem did crop up. I already had the wood and stone hardscape, and the plants are trimmings and new plants grown by other hobbyists and sold super cheap. I got three of them, the vallis, guppy grass and another for £2!

Tank set up and plants actually planted 3rd August. Looked like this day one:


Then like this by the 16th! Tons of new growth. I didn't even really notice just how much until I took the photos and compared them.


Haven't used any ferts yet, no CO2, light is a cheap Nicrew light, but it's good enough since I've used Nicrew lights for all the tanks in the photos above. So I reckon when it comes to plants, a more LED light strip might help, but you possibly also just had crypt melt or plants struggling to convert to submersed form. You too can do this! The fish love it, and it helps so much with water quality, since plants suck up the ammonia fish produce and use it to grow, and they can do it a lot faster than the nitrifying bacteria.

We'd be happy to help you with stocking suggestions since you'd like new fish! Or plant tips, anything really! We're generally a friendly bunch

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:

They're not nasty fish at all. Just solitary and territorial, and doing exactly what they'd do in the wild to protect their bubble nests and fry (for males) and because once female bettas mature, they are also solitary and travel around, searching for males to spawn with. They don't live in one area with other fish, and also have that drive to chase other fish away and don't desire company the way shoaling species like tetra and corydoras do.

In the wild when a female finds a male and they both want to spawn, they'll mate, release eggs, often both collect them and place them in the bubble nest. But then the female will leave, and the male will fiercely guard the nest, the fry, and his territory. He'll chase off the female if she lingers for too long. Problem in our tanks is that the female can't just go her own way. So betta breeders are very aware of this, carefully introduce the fish and supervise, then get the female out of there when they're done, because he can easily kill her since she can't leave his territory and the bubble nest.

A "one-night stand" kind of fish Don't form long term bonds and remain together like some species, say a pair of angelfish do. But it works for them and their natural environment! They're labyrinth fish and can survive in conditions we'd never imagine. Fascinating fish, and personable in the way you can hand feed and interact with them.

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Add to this that bettas were used in competitions. So they were bred for aggression for years.

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:

I haven't tested his temperament with things like shrimp or snails yet, but have to say, I'm used to feeding community tanks, even when I'm targeting certain foods for certain species. But having a single fish in a tank to feed - who comes to me for feeding whenever I'm near the tank (I have to tell him it's not dinner time everytime!) feels different, and I'm enjoying it.

And I'm someone who swore I'd never get a betta! Haha. Love him. Excited about the tank set up I'm making for him! This 12.5g tank he's in now is my old QT/grow out/nursery tank for guppy and cory fry. It's useful for those things, but light is so weak that no live plants last in it for long, even through they thrive in my other tanks:

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I'm having the exact same experience with my betta. He's very active and intelligent. He recognizes me because I feed him. So he swims to the front of the tank when I go near it. He doesn't do that for anyone else in the house. He's a voracious eater. I have to remind myself that he doesn't need that much food. Otherwise, I'd be liable to overfeed him.