How to : Transferring to a bigger tank - advice please

Hi all

So after you guy's helped me out with my first ever tank and few dead fish... going on two weeks since last death, so I think all is well

I have now decided to get a bigger tank and have ordered a 243 litter (64 gallons) open rimless tank (same as I have, just much bigger)

I was wondering what would be the best practice as to moving everything from the 17 gallons to the new bigger one

1. I am planning on using the existing spider wood piece, drift wood piece and 4 rocks I have in the tank. Will also be transferring the plants, along with adding new ones.

2. Getting a new filter (FLuval 407 to replace the 107 I have now) - will be transferring all the media from the old canister to the new one - any advice as to how ? or any specific tips?

3. I would like to use the substrate I have - as I understand adding new aqua soil can cause an ammonia spike...

Is there any problem in transferring the aqua soil from the old to the new?
will probably add an inert sand or something as what I have in the new tank is not enough....

4. So the idea is -

take out the wood and rocks from the small tank (with fish still in) - set up and scape the new tank.

Siphon water from the small tank to a plastic storage thingy, temporary put the filter and some plants in there, a heater, and transfer the fish over.

Then siphon the rest of the water to a bucket (s) - to use later to pour to the new tank.

Take the soil, and add to the new tank (ANY ADVICE?? WASH IT OR NOT? ANYTHING ELSE?)

Add the inert sand or soil, start planting, add water (tank water from the bucket (to speed cycle?), move fish in, and add the rest of the small tank water (from the plastic thing where the fish were) to the tank,

add more tap water with dechlorinate , and hopefully, success!!!

ANY THING I AM MISSING?
ANY ADVICE ON THE PROCESS?

TO MAKE AS LESS STRESSFUL FOR THE FISH AND TO MAKE SURE I HAVE NO AMMONIA SPIKE...

for instance, I found out only by accident that adding more aqua soil to a cycled tank can cause ammonia... WHAT ELSE DON"T I KNOW?


Thanks again!!!!

So… you need to speak at the MTS support group… ideally the best answer is to set up the new tank, get it cycled, and net the fish from tank to tank… but it sounds like you want to use most of the components from your 1st tank??? What are you going to do with that one???

Magnum Man said:

So… you need to speak at the MTS support group… ideally the best answer is to set up the new tank, get it cycled, and net the fish from tank to tank… but it sounds like you want to use most of the components from your 1st tank??? What are you going to do with that one???

Click to expand...

Hey,

What is the MTS support group?

Yeah, as it is relatively new - don't see a reason to not use them...

I am trading in the smaller one back to the store I bought it from + paying the difference and getting the new one

To that end, I will have to give the old one back to the store the following day - so I need to do a speed cycle - Using the 'old' components should speed that up with the filter media, right?

newaquaentusiast said:

What is the MTS support group?

Click to expand...

Multiple tank syndrome - there are several members who are afflicted this incurable disease characterised by the need to own more and more tanks


I have never used a plant substrate so I can't advise on the ammonia issue. I've only used gravel and later sand.


When I moved everything to a larger tank the new tank was in a different room so I could set up the new tank in advance, but the method is still the same.
First I removed about half the water from the new tank which had been filled to test for leaks. I siphoned some tank water into a container, put all the fish, heater, and filter in there. The decor went into a bucket of tank water. I removed the rest of the water siphoning the sand off the bottom into a bucket. The sand was very dirty so I washed it then put it in the new tank together with more previously washed new sand. Then I moved the filter, heater and decor into the new tank then finally caught all the fish in the container and put them in the new tank then added the water from the container and filled back up with new water. For the fish it was like doing a very large water change.


The filter bacteria live in the biofilm which is bound to surfaces so there are virtually no bacteria in tank water. I just used the bit the fish were temporarily kept in rather than use all new.

newaquaentusiast said:

Getting a new filter (FLuval 407 to replace the 107 I have now) - will be transferring all the media from the old canister to the new one - any advice as to how ?

Click to expand...

I assume the sponges in the 407 are smaller than those in the 107? If they are, you can cut up the new sponges to fill any gaps. With ceramic media, mix new in with the old to fill the baskets.



Don't feed the fish for a couple of days before the move and feed less than usual for a few days afterwards to reduce the amount of ammonia being made. And keep an eye on ammonia and nitrite levels until you are sure they are staying at zero. If they read above zero, a water change is a good idea.

Essjay said:

Multiple tank syndrome - there are several members who are afflicted this incurable disease characterised by the need to own more and more tanks

Click to expand...

LOL

I will definitely hit them up

But I think I got a new variation of the syndrome,
NTS - new tank syndrome...
Don't think I have it in me to have more than 1 - and the MRS. would kill me...

But as I know me - will probably want an even bigger one later on...lol

Essjay said:

I assume the sponges in the 407 are smaller than those in the 107? If they are, you can cut up the new sponges to fill any gaps. With ceramic media, mix new in with the old to fill the baskets.



Don't feed the fish for a couple of days before the move and feed less than usual for a few days afterwards to reduce the amount of ammonia being made. And keep an eye on ammonia and nitrite levels until you are sure they are staying at zero. If they read above zero, a water change is a good idea.

Click to expand...

Yes, sizes are obviously different but generally, the same,
will have a nice mixture to it...

Good tip on the feeding thanks

Should I wait at all before transferring the fish to the new tank?
or should i do as quickly as possible so the fish are not in the plastic container too long?

I would transfer the fish as soon as the 'hardware' is set up to your satisfaction. They'll be better off in the larger volume.

Can any body shed some light regarding the transfer of the substrate?

I have only a active aqua soil substrate -

Is there anything specific I should or shouldn't do when transferring it from the small tank to the new larger one?


Thanks

Definitely rinse your substrate thoroughly in a bucket before transferring it into the new aquarium.

Bear in mind that a fair amount of our dsesired bacteria lives in the top portion of the substrate. Normally this is restricted to the top inch or less because there is not usually enough oxygen available by the time one is down to an inch or more.

I have done a lot of planted tanks including pone using pressurized CO2. I have never used anoy form of dirt a\iyn any of the tanks. I have not even done much planting in sand. Most of my planted tanks used small size gravel. I love mulm.

When I have upgraded tanks by size I have usually moved the gravel over and not rinsed. I want the mulm and the bacteria to move to the new tank as it contains both needed bacteria and mulm which the plants fo like.

So, set up a rubbermauid to hold a bunch of the things in the tank. Then move the substrate from the old tank to the nedd adding what you need to fill out the larger area. Them put in a few inches of water and plant the foreground plants. You can also add decor at this time. Then, add more water so you can plant the mid ground/ mid height plants. Finally, fill the tank almost all the way so you can plant the tall background stuff.

The old tank water is not needed to any great extent but you can use some of it. Consider this to be a good chance to do what is effectively a big water change on the old tank water. The reason for doing the planting as I described is to get a goos idea of how things look it help if the plants are able to stand up fully. Floppy plants are harder to work with when aquascaping.

It is important that the new tank water is up to temp. efore moving in the fish. You also need to test for ammonia as well as a precaution. If you are moving over the entire contents of the old tank to the new one, most of the cycle is going to move as well. You may lose or bury some of the needed microorganisms, but it should not create a big enough issue to be of concern. Under optimal conditions the ammonia bacteria can dould in 8 hourse and the nitrite ones in about 12.

So even if you were to lose 1 quater of the bacteria in the transfer, the remaining bacteria sould reproduce it back in a matter of 3 or 4 hours. Just monitor the fish for the first day or so. Between testing and their behavior it will be easy to see if you need to do anything about ammonia or nitrite should thy appear at a lower level after the transfer. Worst case you can add a good dechlor which also detoxifies ammonia etc. This will protect the fish and the detoxified stuff can still be used by the bacteria, just not as efficiently. So even it is were to slow the reproduction such that it takes 8 hours for the bacteria to build back up, the detoxification of the ammonia and nitrite will protect the fish for that time and more.

As long as you do not let anything from the old tank dry ut completely during the transition, most of the microorganisms will move with everything else.

If you are still worried about all of this you may have one more step you can take. You can buy bottled bacteria. However, it is important that this be iether Dr. Tim's One and Only or Tetra's Safe start (or Safe Start+). These two products contain living bacteria of the right kind, especially the Dr. Tim's which also contains some of the Amoonia Oxidizing Archaea discovered to be in tanks about 15 years ago. I know these are now in the One and Only but cannot be sure about the Safe Starts (these will have the right bacteria though.

If you use one of these bottled products, bear in mind that the bacteria are in a state of dormancy, What wakes them up is the presence of ammonia and nitrite in the water. So if you use them, add them before the fish go in. keep the tank light off and the filter running when you add the bacteria. Allow some time for them to settle into the substrate and filter etc. You should not need a lot of bacteria as most of your should survive. So the smallest bottle available should be fine. It is also likely not needed.

TwoTankAmin said:

Bear in mind that a fair amount of our dsesired bacteria lives in the top portion of the substrate. Normally this is restricted to the top inch or less because there is not usually enough oxygen available by the time one is down to an inch or more.

Click to expand...

Also, it is where the parasites live too. This is why I would rather start with a new substrate, then transfer the old substrate to a new aquarium.

If one has parasites in their substrate in sufficient numbers/type, than they are likely making the current fish sick, otherwise why should we assume the parasites become stronger and greater in number from the move. What I do know is leaving behind the good bacteria etc. in the substrate will result in ammonia and nitrite in the new tank. Also, why would said parasites not also be living in one's filter media?

Over the last two decades + I have upgrade a number of tanks and in almost every one I moved the substrate. The one exception was a tank in which I used Seachem Flourite and wanted to change to a different substrate.

Most parasites are able to function without oxyegn when inside a host or protected one the outside of a fish by the slimecoat of the fish. However, most parasites have a life cycle where they use oxygen. For example to kill ich or velvet one must do so when they are in their free swimming stage.

In addition there are many things present in the water which can infect fish. However, when these things are present inlow number the immune systems ofr fish can usually fend them off. it is when fish are weakened so their defences are reduced or when the nasties are present in great enough numbers that normal defences fail and we are required to take some form of remedial action.

And then there is this:

What does that mean for aquarium biofiltration?​

Water filtration is teamwork by the members of the substrate microbial community from all domains of life. This is an important conclusion, both for freshwater and marine habitats. The different players form a food web, where most organisms cannot exist alone but are interdependent. The microbial community varies greatly depending on the availability of foods, pore sizes, and substrates. Soil biofiltration is therefore very plastic, meaning it can cope with a variety of conditions. However, one feature is common. Natural layers of biofiltration are usually undisturbed for longer periods of time (many weeks and months). In nature, no one squeezes out the debris or rinses the media on a weekly schedule. Occasionally, seasonal floods or rains may “wash” a gravel bed but regular rinsing of the filter media is not happening. The microorganisms eat the debris and the sludge is completely broken down into gases and soluble products that then escape the pore space. Soil biofilters are almost maintenance-free. The released substances are either getting into the atmosphere or are taken up by plants.
For aquarium biofiltration to be most effective, filters should be running undisturbed for as long as possible. Filter media that remain passable and have a variety of pore sizes are best. Given that we like to influence the water parameters depending on the species we keep, and thus make water soft, hard, etc, the filter media should be chemically inert, so that it does not affect the water chemistry by itself.
Author © Stephan M. Tanner, PhD

---

Last modified: July 20, 2023 at 11:12 pm

Click to expand...

from http://www.swisstropicals.com/library/aquarium-biofiltration/

TwoTankAmin said:

If one has parasites in their substrate in sufficient numbers/type, than they are likely making the ciurrent fish sick, otherwise why should we assume the parasites become stronger and greater in number from the move. What I do know is leaving behind the good bacteria etc. in the substrate will result in ammonia and nitrite in the new tank.

Over the last two decades + I have upgrade a number of tanks and in almost every one I moved the substrate. The one exception was a tank in which I used Seachem Flourite and wanted to change to a different substrate.

Most parasites are able to function without oxyegn when inside a host or protected one the outside of a fish by the slimecoat of the fish. However, most parasites have a life cycle where they use oxygen. For example to kill ich or velvet one must do so when they are in their free swimming stage.

In addition there are many things present in the water which can infect fish. However, when these things are present inlow number the immune systems ofr fish can usually fend them off. it is when fish are weakened so their defences are reduced or when the nasties are present in great enough numbers that normal defences fail and we are required to take some form of remedial action.

And then there is this:


from http://www.swisstropicals.com/library/aquarium-biofiltration/

Click to expand...

When it comes to parasites, less is best

So you got a lot of advice and some tangent advice on how to move your tank. I have moved many tanks by many I mean over 10 and under 20. I have also transferred most of the components from one tank into another, and most the components of wood filter into another. It is not hard to do and it seems like it's being made a bit more complicated than it needs to.
My advice is to first have a container that you're going to be placing your fish plants and other decor in temporarily. You can have this set up with a simple air pump and air stone because it shouldn't take you long to transfer from one to the other so it does not need to be filtered.
Once you have emptied your tank of fish plants and other decor ( you can use the water from your existing tank in this tub) they're going to catch all of your live inhabitants and put it in this tub. It is a good idea to move the heater into this tub as well and have it set at the same temperature as previously. I am assuming because you are upgrading the size of your tank you have a new heater that will be set up in your new tank.
Assuming the tank is going to be going in the same location that your existing tank was, you're going to now break your tank down. Using buckets or another tub remove the substrate from your existing tank, empty the tank of any remaining water (I have never transferred water into a new tank when transferring tanks you do not need to do this there is nothing beneficial in the water and unless you have very very very very sensitive fish they're not going to be bothered by the new water).
Now you're going to remove your old tank your old stand and set up your new tank. You can use the substrate that you cleaned out and add any additional substrate that you need, partially fill the tank with water and plant it add your decor and then finish filling your tank up with water. Obviously you're going to be conditioning this water. Before you move your fish back into the tank you're going to set up your new filter by removing all of the media from your old filter. Including any sponges that were in the old filter. Do not clean this off at this time unless it's really gunky and you haven't cleaned it and say 3 to 6 months. Move all of this old media into your new filter, you can replace whatever media is currently in the filter or add to it if there's room. Again this is including the sponges or as many sponges as you're able to make fit. You can squeeze these out gently in the sink to remove some debris. Essentially what you have is a cycled tank because you are simply moving your existing media into a bigger filter, but you are not adding new fish to your tank so you have a buyer load in your filter that is equipped to handle your current load of fish even though it is a bigger filter and a bigger tank. Neither the filter or the tank produce waste. The number of fish that you have in our transferring is the same as what you had before so they're not adding any more stress to your current bacterial load.
Once you have everything transferred over from your old filter to your new filter you can go ahead and set it up on the tank and get it running. You can allow this filter to run for a little bit in your new tank if you'd like especially if you have anything floating and clouding the water before you put your fish into this new tank. Otherwise if the tank is clear and you feel it's ready to go you can just go ahead and move your fish into it. Of course you want to make sure that the temperature is match but your fish should have no issues with entirely new water because you're still using the same water from your tap so it's going to still have the same water conditions as the old water in your tank.
To repeat I have done this over a dozen times and have never lost fish by simply transferring them to a new tank and not adding the old water which has no benefits to the fish whatsoever or to the cycle.
If you've already upgraded your tank I hope everything went well if not good luck to you and if you have any additional questions I am here to answer.

Fishfunn said:

Definitely rinse your substrate thoroughly in a bucket before transferring it into the new aquarium.

Click to expand...

As mentioned below, somebody else said not to rinse... lol

any way decided to go ahead and just put in a bucket with tank water (did a water change anyway) and will let it soak there until the new tank arrives Tuesday I'm told.

Boundava said:

So you got a lot of advice and some tangent advice on how to move your tank. I have moved many tanks by many I mean over 10 and under 20. I have also transferred most of the components from one tank into another, and most the components of wood filter into another. It is not hard to do and it seems like it's being made a bit more complicated than it needs to.

Click to expand...

Didn't want to quote all you wrote - as it was too long

Thanks for your advice.

I got a overkill heater for my current tank - so don't think I need to upgrade,

did get the Fluval 407 to replace the 107 currently on the small tank.

The new tank - 243 litters (64 gallons) has an odd and cool dimension, 90X60X45

so it's 30 centimeters 'longer' and twice as 'deep' as my current 60X30X36

Can't wait to set it up!

I think what I have in mind is quite similar to Boundava's method:

1. siphon some water from the tank to a 60 litter plastic tote < transfer heater + current filter to tote
2. take out the major hardscape - namely the drift wood, and the spider wood, along with the annubias in and around the hard scape
3. Drain the tank some more (maybe 30 litters to the tote) and net the fish 1 by 1 to to the plastic tote - I think they should be fine there for a hour or two, right??
4. Almost completely drain the tank, remove the rocks, plants and scoop the substrate,
5. Take my time to set up the new tank, starting with the hardscape - the rocks and then the substrate from the old tank along with the new inert one currently soaking in tank water
6. Planting time
7. fill the new tank with dechlorinated water.
8. Transfer the heater from the plastic tote to the new tank to make sure the water temp is the same.
9. Leave the air stone in the tote for the fish, take apart the old cannister filter, put it all in the new one - fill in the gaps with new media from the new filter.
10. Have the new filter run in the tank for 5-10 minutes and transfer the fish in to their hopefully beautiful new home!
11. Sit there and watch it for a few minutes... or hours...


Any specific advice on that would also be appreciated if you think I missed something

It's done!

So just wanted to give a quick update - the tank arrived and the switch has been done!

It was quite a process! It took the better part of 4 hours in total - I had to construct the cabinet and also took my time with the hardscape - I think it turned out quit well! There is definitely a need for more plants and possibly another drift wood piece at the back left sticking out,

but all in all I am quite happy
And then again, after doing it, taking my time and eventually moving the fish over from the temporary plastic tank - I then started to question my own work and creativity... But oh well... )

Tank is Aquael ultrascape 90 -
243 litters (64 gallons) -

90X60X45