I don’t want my angel to die :(

sweetmoon · Apr 10, 2024

Hey everyone, really hoping for some advice as I dont want to lose my beloved angelfish.

I noticed she wasn’t eating as usual last Friday and seemed a bit lethargic. Then at the weekend she started swimming at a slight angle. I spoke to my local aquatics centre, they tested my water which was fine and they advised to start using anti-internal bacteria medication every other day. Shes had two doses of that but is now twirling anytime she’s not propped up.

I tried feeding deshelled peas in case it was swim bladder but she wouldn’t take any.

Went back to aquatics centre today and they said to do a 30% water change then add general tonic. I’ve done that but the angel is still unwell, it’s absolutely devastating to see. They said if she doesn’t get better it might be more humane to have her put down but I can’t deal with the thought of losing her.

Tank size: 60L

tank age: just over a year, fish are that age too

tank temp: 25.5oc

Test kit- freshwater api kit

See pic for test strip

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):

Not eating, lethargic, propping self against heater but when she tries to swim she goes spinning. Small poo on Monday was white

Volume and Frequency of water changes: 25% weekly at the weekends. 30% changed today

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: Seachem Prime and Stability, Tetra balance, api aquarium salt. Seachem tidal filter with Seachem matrix and purigen

Tank inhabitants: 2 mollies, 4 platties

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): none

Exposure to chemicals: Aqua care anti-internal bacteria 2 doses, aqua care general tonic 1 dose today

Thank you so much

Uberhoust · Apr 10, 2024

Definitely doesn't look well, though I am not the best for fish diseases.
Thoughts and Observations:
1. Your water looks a little murky that could be the meds
2. You have given antibacterials but they haven't seemed to help
3. I don't know what aquacare general tonic is but it seems like it might be a salt. If so you might be overdosing with salt.
4. Tetra Balance, seems to have a lot of stuff most people/fish don't need.
5. Tank is too small for this type of fish.

I wonder if you have a bit too many medicines in your tank. If it was me I would start with the following.
1. Major water change 50% or more.
2. Stop with all the additives, the only one you should be using is Prime or something similar to deal with the chorine in the water.
3. After a couple of days do another large water change.
4. If your angel lives he needs a larger home.

I don't know if the antibiotics affect the cycle, so you will want to watch the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels, if the first two ever go above 0 it is time for another water change, I try to keep my nitrates to 10ppm or lower. Watch when you feed that you don't overfeed, start with what the fish can eat in 30 seconds. Your fish doesn't look bloated to me so I suspect some of the other additives might be the issue,

@Colin_T might be able to help you more on this issue. If you hang out in this forum you will pickup advice and ideas on how to help all your fish.

Good luck, I really like angelfish myself.

Essjay · Apr 10, 2024

For information -
AquaCare is Maidenhead Aquatics own brand of medications. It contains acriflavine and methylene blue.

seangee · Apr 10, 2024

What is the hardness of your water (GH)? Angels are soft water water fish and both mollies and platies are hard water fish.
Do you use salt regularly? This is not recommended for fresh water fish.
Hate to say it but your LFS may be right - I have never known a fish to recover from whirling disease without antibiotics, and in the UK that means a vet visit and loads of money. Its most likely a protozoan infection in the brain. If she dies in the tank overnight and the other fish start eating her they could get it too.

Colin_T · Apr 11, 2024

Video of the fish swimming and spinning?
Upload video to YouTube, then copy & paste the link here.
If you use a mobile phone to film the fish, hold the phone horizontally (landscape mode) so the footage fills the entire screen.

Fish spinning or spiraling through the water usually have a problem in the brain. It can be brain damage if the fish hits its head on something but is more commonly caused by a bacterial, viral or protozoan infection in the brain. These normally occur in dirty tanks that don't get regular water changes, gravel cleaning or filter cleaning.

There's no cure for infected fish and it usually dies within a few days.
How long has the fish been spinning for?

Cleaning the tank, gravel and filter, and adding salt can normally stop other fish developing the same problem.

--------------------

Poor water quality, (ammonia, nitrite or high nitrate) can also cause fish to have trouble remaining buoyant and upright. It can also cause fish to stop eating.

The water looks milky cloudy. This can be from uneaten food or a new filter. Beneficial filter bacteria can also die from medications like Methylene Blue.
The paper test strips do not have an ammonia test and you should check the ammonia in the water.

What sort of filter is on the tank?
How often and how do you clean the filter?

--------------------

Stringy white poop can be caused by intestinal worms, or an internal bacterial or protozoan infection. Because the fish isn't eating well and has a stringy white poop, it's most likely an internal protozoan infection and that needs Metronidazole to treat it. You will need a vet to prescribe this medication in the UK and it is probably cheaper to replace the fish, which might not survive even if it does get Metronidazole. It depends on how bad the damage is inside the fish.

The following link has more information about stringy white poop in fish.

What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons. 1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be...

www.fishforums.net

--------------------

At this stage try doing the following until we can see how the fish is behaving in the video, and we know what the ammonia level is.

Test the water for ammonia and post the result here (in numbers).

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week or until the problem is identified. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens so any medication (if needed) will work more effectively on the fish.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

GaryE · Apr 11, 2024

Acriflavene and Methelyne blue are anti parasitics - for skin parasites. So they serve no purpose with your fish now.

If you've used an antibiotic and it has done nothing (a usual result as antibiotics should be aimed at specific infections, and few of us have the knowledge to pick the right one) I'm sadly pessimistic. The problem could be a damaged swim bladder, or it could be neurological. The white poop suggests the first option,but neither helps. It's very unlikely the fish can recover.

Essjay · Apr 11, 2024

The OP used AquaCare Anti Internal Bacteria which is not an antibiotic. It contains chloramine T.

Colin_T · Apr 11, 2024

GaryE said:
Acriflavene and Methelyne blue are anti parasitics - for skin parasites. So they serve no purpose with your fish now.

Methylene Blue primarily kills bacteria and fungus. One of the problems when using it is the chemical can wipe out beneficial filter bacteria.

sweetmoon · Apr 20, 2024

Colin_T said:
Video of the fish swimming and spinning?
Upload video to YouTube, then copy & paste the link here.
If you use a mobile phone to film the fish, hold the phone horizontally (landscape mode) so the footage fills the entire screen.

Fish spinning or spiraling through the water usually have a problem in the brain. It can be brain damage if the fish hits its head on something but is more commonly caused by a bacterial, viral or protozoan infection in the brain. These normally occur in dirty tanks that don't get regular water changes, gravel cleaning or filter cleaning.

There's no cure for infected fish and it usually dies within a few days.
How long has the fish been spinning for?

Cleaning the tank, gravel and filter, and adding salt can normally stop other fish developing the same problem.

--------------------

Poor water quality, (ammonia, nitrite or high nitrate) can also cause fish to have trouble remaining buoyant and upright. It can also cause fish to stop eating.

The water looks milky cloudy. This can be from uneaten food or a new filter. Beneficial filter bacteria can also die from medications like Methylene Blue.
The paper test strips do not have an ammonia test and you should check the ammonia in the water.

What sort of filter is on the tank?
How often and how do you clean the filter?

--------------------

Stringy white poop can be caused by intestinal worms, or an internal bacterial or protozoan infection. Because the fish isn't eating well and has a stringy white poop, it's most likely an internal protozoan infection and that needs Metronidazole to treat it. You will need a vet to prescribe this medication in the UK and it is probably cheaper to replace the fish, which might not survive even if it does get Metronidazole. It depends on how bad the damage is inside the fish.

The following link has more information about stringy white poop in fish.

What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons. 1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be...

www.fishforums.net

--------------------

At this stage try doing the following until we can see how the fish is behaving in the video, and we know what the ammonia level is.

Test the water for ammonia and post the result here (in numbers).

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week or until the problem is identified. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens so any medication (if needed) will work more effectively on the fish.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

Thank you all for your replies, I had the angel put down because she really wasn't well and I didnt want other fish getting unwell. I followed your steps to make sure the tank is clean and I really appreciate you took the time to reply

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I don’t want my angel to die :(

sweetmoon

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Uberhoust

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Essjay

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seangee

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Colin_T

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What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.

GaryE

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Essjay

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Colin_T

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sweetmoon

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What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.

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