Shrimp and Nitrates

MuddyWaters said:

UPDATE: After doing a 2.5 gallon water change on 21st and then another on the 24th, I figured I'd be in much better shape. I made sure the water was the right GH before adding to the tank. I haven't seen any dead shrimp and there are signs of pending new life, so feeling pretty good.

I have been barely feeding the fish, and I have tons of plants, many of which are floating. Should take care of the nitrates, right?

Dadgummit- I checked the nitrates yesterday and they were at least 30 again. So frustrating!! I did another 2.5 gallon water change and washed out the filter sponge again (just squeeze it out a couple of times in clean treated water). I don't understand what is creating these nitrates at levels that the plants can't eat up. The floaters are red-root floaters, duck weed and some hornwort- they're all growing very well. Should be plenty to take care of it.

I guess "barely" feeding fish is more than I think, although I swear it's a few pellet grains a day and that's it. I'll skip a few days and see....I'm gonna get those nitrates down one way or another.

Edit: I forgot that I did add another slice of zucchini- they at literally the whole thing, so it didn't rot in the tank, but still, maybe that's a source. They will not be getting their veggies for a few days!

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How many fishes do you have in there ? Fishes respiration is the major producer of ammonia alongside waste decomposition.

If your Fishes are having a good high protein diet, They will produce more ammonia breaking down these protein to energy.

Do you have some dead spot in your tank ? Where mulm is accumulating ? Most of the time under or close to the filter intake and in the corners are obvious places.

MaloK said:

How many fishes do you have in there ? Fishes respiration is the major producer of ammonia alongside waste decomposition.

If your Fishes are having a good high protein diet, They will produce more ammonia breaking down these protein to energy.

Do you have some dead spot in your tank ? Where mulm is accumulating ? Most of the time under or close to the filter intake and in the corners are obvious places.

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I think I have too many fish. I have 5 sunshine neon tetras (white with baby blue neon stripe) and 6 blackbar endlers with a few fry. I give them pellets (really more like granules) that are 50% protein. I got the endlers on impulse.....actually I got the tetras on impulse too.

I'm not going to get more shrimp- if they survive, I'm happy, but I think to get this thing right for them I'd have to start over. I'm trying desperately to balance stability and enough water changes to keep the nitrates down, but so far, I'm failing. It's pretty depressing, but I guess a learning experience. One of my berried females died yesterday. Just horrible. I thought I was getting pretty good at this, but if I create a situation that is untenable then I get what I get.

MuddyWaters said:

I think I have too many fish. I have 5 sunshine neon tetras (white with baby blue neon stripe) and 6 blackbar endlers with a few fry. I give them pellets (really more like granules) that are 50% protein. I got the endlers on impulse.....actually I got the tetras on impulse too.

I'm not going to get more shrimp- if they survive, I'm happy, but I think to get this thing right for them I'd have to start over. I'm trying desperately to balance stability and enough water changes to keep the nitrates down, but so far, I'm failing. It's pretty depressing, but I guess a learning experience. One of my berried females died yesterday. Just horrible. I thought I was getting pretty good at this, but if I create a situation that is untenable then I get what I get.

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Why not dedicate a five gallon tank to shrimp only.

gwand said:

Why not dedicate a five gallon tank to shrimp only.

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I can't spare the space- my dream of 2 more tanks is just that at this point- I know where I'll put them, but there's a lot of psychology that has to be worked on the Queen of the Castle (aka begging), and if I jump out with another tank now, it won't go well.

It’s Sunday. Cherry has hitched a ride to church.

I love your avatar. It cracks me up every time I see it

MuddyWaters said:

I think I have too many fish. I have 5 sunshine neon tetras (white with baby blue neon stripe) and 6 blackbar endlers with a few fry. I give them pellets (really more like granules) that are 50% protein. I got the endlers on impulse.....actually I got the tetras on impulse too.

I'm not going to get more shrimp- if they survive, I'm happy, but I think to get this thing right for them I'd have to start over. I'm trying desperately to balance stability and enough water changes to keep the nitrates down, but so far, I'm failing. It's pretty depressing, but I guess a learning experience. One of my berried females died yesterday. Just horrible. I thought I was getting pretty good at this, but if I create a situation that is untenable then I get what I get.

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I was thinking of adding fish to control my copepods, But I'm not sure how it could end, I don't have fast growing plants. I want to get some.

But I want to have a 0 nitrate all day tank in the first place. And I'm not sure if the impact long term will be positive on that aspect.

And the load of fish you have at the moment makes me doubt even more that it would be a good idea.

MaloK said:

I was thinking of adding fish to control my copepods, But I'm not sure how it could end, I don't have fast growing plants. I want to get some.

But I want to have a 0 nitrate all day tank in the first place. And I'm not sure if the impact long term will be positive on that aspect.

And the load of fish you have at the moment makes me doubt even more that it would be a good idea.

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I'm guessing man. It's the only thing I can think of given the amount of fast growing plants I have now. Red root floaters, duckweed and hornwort are dominating the left side of the tank. I haven't checked the nitrates today after water change yesterday- I'm scared to, and if it's high, there ain't a dang thing I can do except change more water and that has been killing them even though I set the GH to 8 (same as the tank) in the bucket before I add the water back.

MuddyWaters said:

I'm guessing man. It's the only thing I can think of given the amount of fast growing plants I have now. Red root floaters, duckweed and hornwort are dominating the left side of the tank. I haven't checked the nitrates today after water change yesterday- I'm scared to, and if it's high, there ain't a dang thing I can do except change more water and that has been killing them even though I set the GH to 8 (same as the tank) in the bucket before I add the water back.

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Are you still performing small changes everyday ?

MaloK said:

Are you still performing small changes every day ?

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define "every"

MuddyWaters said:

define "every"

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Something happening at specified intervals.

MaloK said:

Something happening at specified intervals.

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When I started doing the 2.5 gallons twice per week instead of once, i stopped with the smaller ones. I guess i could do them too, but it's a lot easier to get the GH right on the bigger changes than on those little ones- before I was eye-balling it. I still haven't checked the nitrates. I will do it today. knock on wood....

@MuddyWaters

I "discovered" some neat little glass dishes that you can put on top of the substrate where you feed your shrimps.

They help to prevent substrate pollution and you can easily vac out the leftovers with a turkey bastar or a coral feeder.

Another one in the basket.

Checked my nitrates today and they're 20ppm- much better, but not near where I want them to be.

I decided today that I am NOT going to give up on this thing- I'm going to get these shrimp to thrive one way or another.

I started back to doing the 64 oz water change daily in addition to the twice a week 2.5 gallon change. Also, after doing some reading, I found API Nitra-zorb which, based on the reviews I read, should pull my nitrate levels down to zero pretty quickly. At this point I'm willing to buy something extra to make sure they get and stay low.

It comes in Tuesday. That is the day for one of the twice-weekly 2.5 gallon water changes. Hopefully between the water change and this stuff I can find success. Maybe it'll allow me to reduce the water changes too? I don't mind doing water changes, but if I can reduce the variability for the shrimp it should help keep them happier.

Knock on wood-

MuddyWaters said:

Thanks MaloK. Good idea on the plants. I got a little bit of duckweed with the shrimp I bought at the club, so maybe it'll grow and take some of that nitrate. I wonder if water sprite would do the same? I know I can float it and it grows like crazy too.

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When plants are growing they need to make KNA. DNA is made up of Carbon, hydrogen, NITROGEN, and PHOSPHATE. So if your plants are growing they will consume nitrogen. Doesn't mater the species or were if grows (floating or rooted) in the substrate. But if the plants are not growing they wil not consume nitrogen or phosphate.

MuddyWaters said:

I had stopped doing the 64 oz daily water change. That was a mistake. I thought that all the plants I have (I also added a water wisteria cutting from my other tank) would soak up the nitrates, but they're not working yet.

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Based on when this prost started the duckweed you have in your tank should have by now covered the entire surface of the tank. Same for red root floaters. But instead in your pictures I see no duckweed and your red root floaters are dying. This indicates no growth of your plants. Why?

In addition to nitrogen and phosphate plants also need the following to grow: Potassium, calcium, magnesium, sulfur, chlorine, iron, manganese, boron, zinc, copper, molybdenum and nickel. If only one is missing you get now growth. Since your nitrogen if very high in my experience phosphate is also likely high. Your GH is7 indicating your water has enough calcium and likely enough magnesium. Tap water is typically sterilized with Chlorine so you likely have enough calcium chloride in your water for

In my opinion the primary problem in your case is a lack micro nutrients (iron to nickel are missing). The solution is a micro fertilizer. That means you need to fertilizer the water. Since you have KH in your water I would recommend this fertilizer it is a chelated fertilizer so it will not be destroyed by the KH in your water. One dose once a week should resolve a micro deficiency. You should also do a water change once a week. to insure you have enough calcium and magnesium. If you are using a GH booster 1 degree of GH is all that is needed. If all your GH comes from tap water you need a higher GH. I have blue dream shrimp in my 5 gallon and I use RO water and I dose all the nutrients plants need and my nitrogen dose is about 10ppm NO3 and do one water change per week. Ev en with the copper in the fertilizer my shrimp are reproducing. It takes about 2 to 3 weeks for my red root floaters to cover the surface of the tank