Opinions on neon tetras

Hi TFF

Just a random question that I've been thinking about for a while, because I believe my experience is different from others, and wanted to see what people thought of neons (sure, cliché, but one of my favorite fish). I have read many reports online about them being inbred (probably true) and therefore very sensitive, which also may be because they are from blackwater regions which have very little impurities (I think), but personally I think they're great.

If anyone wants to reply, maybe try to stick to this structure (you don't have to, just an idea)
1. Opinion
2. Why
3. Would you recommend them to others.

For me-
1. I really like them, and think that once they're established, they're a great and (dare I say it) hardy fish.
2. I have bought many neons and haven't had that many problems. I have had one or two die after a day or so in my tank, but when they are established they seem to be going fine. I just moved all my neons (9) out of my 10 and into my newly cycled 54 gal and didn't have a problem at all.
3. Yes. I mean, if you want something out of the ordinary, probably go for something less popular, but if you are appealed then go for it

EDIT- If you want, what's your opinion of neons vs cardinals? Personally, I know cardinals are immune to NTD, which is a definite plus in my book, but are also much more expensive where I live, so... neons it is. I actually prefer the look and size of neons as well.

Mine had a virus - not NTD, but the one with growths that deform the mouth and this shortens their life. I liked the look so I switched to green neons a year ago and they have been healthy.
My water wouldn't suit cardinals.

I enjoy neons- I have 6 in my 15 gallon tank now. They are hardy fish, but they are blackwater fish and need very clean water, so they are not good fish to start a tank with. I wonder if that's why they get the label of dying due to inbreeding or not being hardy etc.
They are beautiful fish- it's hard to imagine that they are actually from nature- the contrast of the red and blue is unmatched in any similar tetras, imo. They can be busy and fun to watch. Weirdly, mine just hang out in the plants and don't come out unless i feed them- same for the glowlight tetras in the same tank.
I would definitely recommend neon tetras to others, but I would caveat the recommendation with the suggestion that the tank should be populated and doing well for 4 months or so before adding the neons. Don't start with them.

Neons vs. Cardinals- I've always gotten neons because I usually wanted smaller, so I don't have direct experience. I have considered getting cardinals for my larger tank at some point- we'll see. I'll be interested to see what others say about one vs the other also. They look so similar other than size...

I think they’re great! Beautiful little fish that really earn their name. It’s never captured in photos, but the brightness of their blue stripe when the light catches it is mesmerizing.

I think they fall into that interesting position that all “beginner” fish do where they’re simultaneously very popular and also incredibly undervalued. I don’t think they deserve the “boring beginner fish” treatment they get from some hobbyists.

As with most popular, mass-produced fish, I don’t think you really need to worry a ton about disease as long as you buy from a reputable, trusted LFS that quarantines their fish before putting them out for sale. They are often produced in very large quantities on fish farms with poor conditions though, so it’s not surprising they’re often pretty worse for wear by the time they get to the LFS or big box store.

Re: NTD, afaik it’s actually quite rare. What’s more common is the false NTD, which has very similar symptoms, but is a treatable bacterial infection.

Interesting about yours hanging out in the plants, muddywaters... mine generally enjoyed hanging out in the open (although my planting in the 10gal is very dense, so they usually only go in there if they're sleeping or evading me chasing them with a net )

My water is acidic-neutral (around medium 6-ish) and tannin-y in both tanks, which they definitely enjoy, but I noticed that in the new tank they're shining more brightly than ever (it has slightly more tannins from the driftwood in there and a LOT more space). I agree that they're not a great fish for beginners if they don't really know what they're doing, but my water is great in the new tank with lots of large water changes so it should be fine for them to be in first.

I love greens as well, but as with the cardinals, more expensive. About $10 more expensive per fish. So unfortunately, no.

That's so true, seisage. The funny thing is though... please don't yell at me... I actually get mine from a box brand called 'petstock'. I'm not sure if you guys have it wherever you live. The store where I am (not sure about the whole chain) actually has some pretty healthy stock for a big box store, and they have them on a ripper deal ($25 for $10, AUS), with no obvious deformities or sickness. We'll see how that goes, though, as in literally a few minutes I'm going to buy 10 on aforementioned deal and my words will probably come back to bite me... but such is life .

While we're here (neon opinions are still very welcome), and I might start a new thread, but opinions on snails. I like them (I have wild ones, I believe pond and bladder and some weird wild ramshorn) because they are basically mini vacuum cleaners that do half my work for me. Sure, they reproduce at the speed of light, but I can always just pick them out and chuck them in the pond. Considering getting a nerite but don't want eggs everywhere, so maybe not.


Anyways, have a very merry Christmas (if it still is where you guys are) or boxing day and happy new year!

MuddyWaters said:

I enjoy neons- I have 6 in my 15 gallon tank now. They are hardy fish, but they are blackwater fish and need very clean water, so they are not good fish to start a tank with. I wonder if that's why they get the label of dying due to inbreeding or not being hardy etc.
They are beautiful fish- it's hard to imagine that they are actually from nature- the contrast of the red and blue is unmatched in any similar tetras, imo. They can be busy and fun to watch. Weirdly, mine just hang out in the plants and don't come out unless i feed them- same for the glowlight tetras in the same tank.
I would definitely recommend neon tetras to others, but I would caveat the recommendation with the suggestion that the tank should be populated and doing well for 4 months or so before adding the neons. Don't start with them.

Neons vs. Cardinals- I've always gotten neons because I usually wanted smaller, so I don't have direct experience. I have considered getting cardinals for my larger tank at some point- we'll see. I'll be interested to see what others say about one vs the other also. They look so similar other than size...

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I'm curious about your thoughts on neons and tank maturity. What is it that makes you recommend not starting a tank with neons?

I'm planning a tank that will have neons, hatchetfish, otos, and an apisto or two. My stocking order plan was neons -> hatchets -> apisto -> otos. But now I'm wondering, do you think it'd be a better idea to put the hatchets in first? The other thing I have to factor in is that I have an adopted 5.5gal tank with a lone neon in it and I'd ideally like to get it into a larger tank with friends sooner rather than later. But if the neons really benefit from a slightly more established tank, it could maybe wait a bit longer in the 5.5gal.

Hatchets are delicate fish.

Neons are great.

They aren't blackwater fish, but they are softwater fish. They inhabit black and clear water, and can adapt either way. The box store ones are not inbred, but are often diseased. The issue isn't with breeding, but extreme crowding during rearing. Crowding and communicable disease go hand in hand. Since farmed neons all come from the same source, you can get them sick or healthy from anyone. They were indestructible when they were imported wild, and for the first couple of farm bred generations, but once the farms became seriously industrialized, they went downhill, much like platys, guppies and a few other tough survivor type species.

A local store with high standards is more likely to sell good ones than a box store with practices that favour the spread of disease, so the quality of the store increases your chances. I keep cardinals, with a 7 year plus lifespan. I haven't kept neons for ages, but I would expect healthy, properly cared ones to easily live as long.

An important consideration with neons is that they do best at around 23. Hatchets, Apistos, and a few others like 26. You can shorten a neon's life with too warm water. That's where cardinals come in, as they like 26.

Either fish, in its correct temperature range lives best in groups of around 10, and with peaceful tankmates.

I would only change one thing in GaryE’s reply, and that is that they’re best in groups of around 10 or more, which is what he meant anyway.
I’ve never had an issue with Neons, although I haven’t kept them for a long time. I always plump for Cardinals over Neons.

I always see ten (or more) tetras as one individual. They just have unconnected moving parts. I will be a heretic and say they can go as low as a group of six, but you see such a difference in how they behave in larger groups that it's hard to say that's a good idea.

I'm a fish watcher, and I gauge how well set ups work by what behaviours I see. That's an unpopular approach, when you consider the old fish as "a tableau and something as a centrepiece" approach that is still in. To me, the community is a bunch of the same species of tetra, and the mixed tank lets you see how the different communities interact with each other.

Seisage said:

I'm curious about your thoughts on neons and tank maturity. What is it that makes you recommend not starting a tank with neons?

I'm planning a tank that will have neons, hatchetfish, otos, and an apisto or two. My stocking order plan was neons -> hatchets -> apisto -> otos. But now I'm wondering, do you think it'd be a better idea to put the hatchets in first? The other thing I have to factor in is that I have an adopted 5.5gal tank with a lone neon in it and I'd ideally like to get it into a larger tank with friends sooner rather than later. But if the neons really benefit from a slightly more established tank, it could maybe wait a bit longer in the 5.5gal.

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Seisage,
I've started with neons a couple of times and had bad experience. I was surprised because I'd done it before and it worked ok. Anyway, I got in my mind at that point not to start with neons.

Much later, I came across this article that makes a lot of sense. Here's an excerpt: "Neons are a “blackwater” fish which needs very bacteria-free, crystal-clear water that one only gets in a tank over four months old which is over-filtered." (this is a bit off - as GaryE says above- they are found in clear water too, but both are very low in bacteria, etc.)

Here's another article by the same guy that goes more in-depth on blackwater fish. It's a good read.

One thing about the above- I've kept neons just fine without being over-filtered (having a filter rated bigger than the tank needs), but they do need really clean water. He has another article that goes into what he means by "crystal clear water." I ended up getting a Fluval FX4 for my 75 gallon tank because of his recommendations. However, again - there are always exceptions- my 15 gallon tank uses the filter it came with (it's a 3 chamber thing in the back of the tank) and does just fine. I have 6 fat, thriving neons in there . I did replace the original media and the carbon with K1 media to give the bacteria more surface area. I also change 40% of the water on that one every 2 - 3 days just to be sure.

If you haven't bought the neons yet or aren't dead set on them, I'd recommend starting with the hatchets. They were the 2nd fish I added to my 75 gallon (after Green Fire Tetras) and have done pretty well out of 5- one jumped out and got eaten by my cats, the other died a couple of weeks in- 3 left doing great). All the fish you list are blackwater, so you're kind of in a conundrum there-

Neons v Cardinals...
Lovely little fish the Neons but id always pay that bit extra for cardinals personally.

I find them more colourful, they can go to warmer temps which gives you more options for tank mates and they are hardier than Neons (certainly in the Uk anyway)

They are a beautiful fish. I actually prefer their silver stripe to cardinals. When the light is just right, a large group of them schooling is spectacular. But, I have constantly been struggling with health issues with mine. I had a dozen that are now down to seven. All my other fish are fine. I'll probably see them less and less as their numbers go down and they become more shy. I'm just going to let them live out their lives and then when they're all gone, I'll replace them with some embers or something.

MuddyWaters said:

I enjoy neons- I have 6 in my 15 gallon tank now. They are hardy fish, but they are blackwater fish and need very clean water, so they are not good fish to start a tank with. I wonder if that's why they get the label of dying due to inbreeding or not being hardy etc.
They are beautiful fish- it's hard to imagine that they are actually from nature- the contrast of the red and blue is unmatched in any similar tetras, imo. They can be busy and fun to watch. Weirdly, mine just hang out in the plants and don't come out unless i feed them- same for the glowlight tetras in the same tank.
I would definitely recommend neon tetras to others, but I would caveat the recommendation with the suggestion that the tank should be populated and doing well for 4 months or so before adding the neons. Don't start with them.

Neons vs. Cardinals- I've always gotten neons because I usually wanted smaller, so I don't have direct experience. I have considered getting cardinals for my larger tank at some point- we'll see. I'll be interested to see what others say about one vs the other also. They look so similar other than size...

Click to expand...

That's the interesting thing about their coloring. It has a couple of purposes. One is it allows them to see each other for schooling purposes. The other is believe it or not sort of a camouflage. Only they aren't trying to blend in with their surroundings. They're blending in with each other. A predator see them in a group and can't distinguish them from each other. Other animals do this too. Think about zebras. Their environment is brown and beige with some green. And they're a distinctive black and white. But when you put a bunch together...



A predator sees that and just sees a big mass of stripes.

MuddyWaters said:

If you haven't bought the neons yet or aren't dead set on them, I'd recommend starting with the hatchets. They were the 2nd fish I added to my 75 gallon (after Green Fire Tetras) and have done pretty well out of 5- one jumped out and got eaten by my cats, the other died a couple of weeks in- 3 left doing great). All the fish you list are blackwater, so you're kind of in a conundrum there-

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No, I haven’t bought the neons yet, I still just have the one. So I’ll definitely consider starting with the hatchets. And yes, having all blackwater fish is unfortunately sort of the point I’m going for an Ucayali biotope, although I might have to shift that slightly because I’m becoming a bit more sold on cardinals…

GaryE said:

Hatchets are delicate fish.

An important consideration with neons is that they do best at around 23. Hatchets, Apistos, and a few others like 26. You can shorten a neon's life with too warm water. That's where cardinals come in, as they like 26.

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This is good to know. I’m also planning on getting some zebra otos and they apparently like slightly cooler like the neons (21-25). Oof… The silly thing is that as a function of the whole biotope thing, I know all of these fish inhabit the same river system and furthermore the same small backwater tributaries of said river system, so they theoretically should be alright with all the same conditions, but I suppose “alright” is never the same as “ideal”. I might end up going with cardinals anyway… Do you think my one neon would do alright with cardinals? I hear that they occasionally school together, but that it’s pretty uncommon. I’d like my current fish to be as happy as possible, but maybe it’s not worth it to be “stuck” with neons if they won’t do as well in my setup.

PygmyPepperJulli said:

If anyone wants to reply, maybe try to stick to this structure (you don't have to, just an idea)
1. Opinion
2. Why
3. Would you recommend them to others.

Click to expand...

1. I loved to hate them, now I love them
2. There's truth to your writing about them being hardy on established tanks, just as there's truth to them being either poorly bred, or badly mistreated during shipments, which makes them relatively prone to die offs in certain occasions. Caveat emptor..
3. They are beautiful fish, and in numbers, they're just mesmerizing and funny to watch. Their morning zoomies are the best