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AM I CRAZY? Dumping Dirt in my Tank

MuddyWaters

MuddyWaters

Fishaholic
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Location
Atlanta, GA, USA
Am I crazy?

The answer to that question probably has nothing to do with what I just did, but some may feel I'm crazy solely for dumping a half teaspoon of mud and a half teaspoon of potted plant dirt into my 15 gallon aquarium. I got the mud from the creek behind my house and the dirt from a potted plant we've had for about 8 years in our living room. Oh, I also found a few sticks laying around near the creek. that are very old. i threw them in too.

I've read this article about "mature aquariums" and am seeing that the biodiversity in the aquarium is very important for keeping fish healthy and happy. This is so fun!

I'll keep an eye on it and let you know how it goes. Man, this guy better be right! Dangit..... well, what's done is done. See pic below of what it looks like right now. I'll post another in a couple of weeks (or sooner if something bad happens).

The aquarium is a 15 gallon Fluval Flex all in one with 8 glowlight tetra, 2 neon tetra, 1 emerald flame tetra, 1 otocinclus, 2 emerald corys, 3 of those glowfish tetras. Plants are amazon sword, annubias (4)...bunch of others- I can't ever remember the names. Tested the water today and 0 nitrite, 0 ammonia, 10 nitrate, 6 ph.
15TankAfterAddingMud-8Nov23.jpg
 
Well, with so little it probably won't cause issues, but then it also won't do anything beneficial. "Mature" tanks do not involve adding dirt or whatever. That is just how the author of the linked site happens to define it.
 
You like to live dangerously, my friend.

There are detailed techniques for using dirt in tanks, and none involve dumping it in like that. Plant soil can have unwanted ferts, insecticides from the past, etc.

You've given yourself something to mistake for mulm and siphon out on the next water change. I doubt it'll do harm, but I can't see it doing any good. I think the idea of pond mud can be good. I run what would be called dirty aquariums. I rarely remove mulm, and my filters are set up to support life, and not to clean the water. I don't clean media often, and 'mud' develops. I don't equate water changes with cleanliness or sterility - in nature, water tends to be pure in healthy habitats.
We tested stream water in Gabon this summer, and wow, it was good water. But one step into it, and you would sink to your shins in clinging mud, in some streams. The water was pristine, but the difference between water and substrate was like the air over a mountain mud pit. It's the same in a tank. Don't mix the zones.
Where I disagree with "Father Fish" is on generalization. He seems to argue the old balanced aquarium myth as whole, with reduced water changes. I only have 57 years of experience, but I can't see any aquarium as balanced. It's too small. But I do welcome micro-organisms, algae, mulm and detritus into my water changed tanks.
 
Well, I did it because I figure I can use all the beneficial bacteria I can get. And, while my tank is well established, what I read about the beneficial bacteria found in pond/creek/lake water is pretty compelling. There are fish in the creek, so I feel pretty good about it. We'll see.

I went to the article to pull some quote that wraps it all up, but there's so much in there that I can't. I guess the main thing I'm going for is to make sure I have 'heterotrophic" organisms doing their thing along with the "autotrophic" ones for nitrite and ammonia. I only learned of any of this through the article, but it looks pretty logical.

I'm starting a new 75 gallon tank and put a sock in the filter with creek mud and dirt from the same potted plant in my house that I used in the small one. This is just starting cycling, of course, so not the same as dumping dirt in the aquarium, but should net the same results if the article is on target.

Time will tell...
 
MuddyWaters said:
Well, I did it because I figure I can use all the beneficial bacteria I can get. And, while my tank is well established, what I read about the beneficial bacteria found in pond/creek/lake water is pretty compelling. There are fish in the creek, so I feel pretty good about it. We'll see.
Click to expand...

You cannot get more beneficial bacteria this way, and you cold risk worse. Tropical fish and temperate fish are not the same. Obviously beneficial bacteria is present, as it is in tap water, even with chlorine/chloramine levels as high as they are for health, more than half the bacteria get through.

I just realized you also intend using a UV...yet you are introducing stuff from the ecosystem? Each to his own. Good luck.
 
Not crazy at all, just embracing the wild side of aquarium-keeping! The whole 'mature aquarium' concept is fascinating, and adding a touch of creek mud and plant dirt sounds like an adventurous experiment. The sticks from the creek are a nice touch too. Your setup looks cool, and those tetras are probably enjoying the new digs.
 
Byron said:
I just realized you also intend using a UV
Click to expand...
UV will be for my new tank, not for the 15 gallon. However, I did add mud and dirt to my new aquarium also (still cycling).

So, I'm also wondering about the effect of UV on the heterotrophic organisms that the mud and "gunk" introduce. I know that the autotrophic bacteria stick to the media (and a bunch of other stuff), so UV won't negatively affect it. Maybe the heterotrophic organisms are the same? Will read some more to see if I can confirm :)
 
Update:
See below for a picture of the 15 gallon tank. Nothing negative happened after I added the creek mud, potted plant dirt, and random sticks from near the creek. I removed the sticks after about a week- just kind of got in the way.

There was no obvious result of adding the organic "stuff" at all, really. The water was pretty clear already, so wasn't really expecting anything dramatic.

During the time since the original post I did add some crushed coral, and then some baking soda to bring up the PH some- it's about 6.6 now- it was at least 6.0 (or lower) before I added the stuff to raise it.

The corys dig up the little plants up front on accident rooting around for food, so stuff moves around as I replant LOL. The tank did have TDS of about 150 or something- pretty low. The tapwater is in the 70s so the tank water only added a bit to that.

It's now around 256- I think because I added the baking soda and crushed coral. I've also added a lot more plant fertilizer lately- API tabs once a month and liquid every time I do a 40% water change.

Overall everything seems to be doing pretty well. Did the mud/dirt/sticks help or hurt? Who knows- mostly it looks like they did nothing.
[edit- added the wrong pic originally- this one is from today - 3 Dec]
15Gal-withDirt-STillGood.jpg
 
When we where young, we made "local area fauna and a lot more" aquariums, And we brought everything, the fishes, the rocks, the wood, the plants and even the water from the river near our house to start them...

They always looked like if they where pre-cycled and ready to go.

Gars, Sunfishes, Sturgeons, Eels, Bullheads, Lances, Sticklebacks....

And a load of unknown microscopic critters, Crayfishes, Snails, Water Spiders appeared and a lots of "Other" swimming stufff.

Fed with fish flakes, live worms, tadpoles and small regional fishes. When given toads eggs, it was like caviar to them.

They where released and replaced by something else as soon as grown too big for the tank. This was in agreement with our father, to authorize the whole "thing"to happen...

But these where a total blast to watch, The total efficiency and cruelty of life, dead pan, in your face.

They also supported without problems any kind of direct tap water changes without any water treatment nor temperature adjustment. They where just growing bigger and bigger....

Loll.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
When I was younger we used to get big gallon mason jars and bring them to our local creek with buckets and nets. We would scoop out muck and water from the bottom and we would bring it home, and when it settled we would admire the little Crawdads, snails, any fish unlucky enough to be in the muck, and any little other creatures. It would be completely settled and a perfect capsule looking into our local creeks. Of course we would return it a couple days later, but it really fun. Be careful with the mud and sticks you brought from the creek though, in a handful of muck it wasn’t uncommon to see 20 miniature crawdads and who knows how many snails - and there were probably snail eggs and little larvae. Be careful!
 
There are a couple of ongoing debates here that seem to come up periodically. One is the soil in the aquarium bit. I used to put soil in all of my tanks, as per Walstad's "Ecology" book. It does seem to give rooted plants an immediate boost, and saves one the trouble of adding ammonia while cycling. So in a low-tech, planted tank it can be a short-term advantage. Long term? Probably more trouble than it's worth. My last two tanks have used just sand with no soil, and other than the crypts taking a bit longer to get going, I don't see any real difference.

The other ongoing discussion is adding items from a local body of water. As has already been pointed out, there are pros and cons. You can get beneficial macroinvertebrates that the fish will enjoy eating. Also, I tend to think that increasing one's biodiversity generally increases the stability of the ecosystem. On the other hand, you risk importing predators, parasites, and fish pathogens. You pay your money and you take your chances!

MaloK said:
When we where young, we made "local area fauna and a lot more" aquariums, And we brought everything, the fishes, the rocks, the wood, the plants and even the water from the river near our house to start them...

They always looked like if they where pre-cycled and ready to go.

Gars, Sunfishes, Sturgeons, Eels, Bullheads, Lances, Sticklebacks....

And a load of unknown microscopic critters, Crayfishes, Snails, Water Spiders appeared and a lots of "Other" swimming stufff.

Fed with fish flakes, live worms, tadpoles and small regional fishes. When given toads eggs, it was like caviar to them.

They where released and replaced by something else as soon as grown too big for the tank. This was in agreement with our father, to authorize the whole "thing"to happen...

But these where a total blast to watch, The total efficiency and cruelty of life, dead pan, in your face.

They also supported without problems any kind of direct tap water changes without any water treatment nor temperature adjustment. They where just growing bigger and bigger....

Loll.
Click to expand...
Ah, the simple, care-free days of youth! ha ha

I used to do tanks like this, too, and I still love the idea. The main reason I stopped is that it is now considered a very bad idea to keep a fish in captivity then release it into the wild. It is even illegal in some places. Combined with wild fish's tendency to quickly outgrow any reasonable sized tank, the whole idea is kind of set up to fail.

So if I were to do this again (and I might someday!), I would consult with the local fisheries biologist before I began. Then I would either be careful to only include species that stay small enough to be in captivity long-term, or have a plan in place for rehoming or (legal and safe) releasing.

Also, most fish respond very badly to chlorine in tap water. Maybe your gars and such were so tough they just didn't care. :lol:
 
I would be concerned about the lack of "down stream", in aquariums... in lakes & creeks generally everything has a "drainage", that exchange keeps things like parasites & bacteria from overwhelming everything... that drainage if measured, is in huge volumes...you might be be OK, if you were doing major water changing, but it would be hard to match what takes place in nature, with a lake river or creek... having a build up of anything bad, in my contained environments, would keep me from doing anything like that... when I started up tanks again, this last year, I added some chemical free farm dirt in containers for plants... over the last year I'm regretting that, & have been removing them as I get the chance... I had / have Ich in one tank right now, & doing everything possible to sterilize anything that I use in other aquariums, that had contact with that aquarium... I wouldn't want to add anything like that from a natural source...
 
WhistlingBadger said:
There are a couple of ongoing debates here that seem to come up periodically. One is the soil in the aquarium bit. I used to put soil in all of my tanks, as per Walstad's "Ecology" book. It does seem to give rooted plants an immediate boost, and saves one the trouble of adding ammonia while cycling. So in a low-tech, planted tank it can be a short-term advantage. Long term? Probably more trouble than it's worth. My last two tanks have used just sand with no soil, and other than the crypts taking a bit longer to get going, I don't see any real difference.

The other ongoing discussion is adding items from a local body of water. As has already been pointed out, there are pros and cons. You can get beneficial macroinvertebrates that the fish will enjoy eating. Also, I tend to think that increasing one's biodiversity generally increases the stability of the ecosystem. On the other hand, you risk importing predators, parasites, and fish pathogens. You pay your money and you take your chances!


Ah, the simple, care-free days of youth! ha ha

I used to do tanks like this, too, and I still love the idea. The main reason I stopped is that it is now considered a very bad idea to keep a fish in captivity then release it into the wild. It is even illegal in some places. Combined with wild fish's tendency to quickly outgrow any reasonable sized tank, the whole idea is kind of set up to fail.

So if I were to do this again (and I might someday!), I would consult with the local fisheries biologist before I began. Then I would either be careful to only include species that stay small enough to be in captivity long-term, or have a plan in place for rehoming or (legal and safe) releasing.

Also, most fish respond very badly to chlorine in tap water. Maybe your gars and such were so tough they just didn't care. :lol:
Click to expand...

This was in the mid 70's and the St-Lawrence river was a dump, where you would surely die of typhoid before touching the bottom.
 
MaloK said:
When we where young, we made "local area fauna and a lot more" aquariums, And we brought everything, the fishes, the rocks, the wood, the plants and even the water from the river near our house to start them...

They always looked like if they where pre-cycled and ready to go.

Gars, Sunfishes, Sturgeons, Eels, Bullheads, Lances, Sticklebacks....

And a load of unknown microscopic critters, Crayfishes, Snails, Water Spiders appeared and a lots of "Other" swimming stufff.

Fed with fish flakes, live worms, tadpoles and small regional fishes. When given toads eggs, it was like caviar to them.

They where released and replaced by something else as soon as grown too big for the tank. This was in agreement with our father, to authorize the whole "thing"to happen...

But these where a total blast to watch, The total efficiency and cruelty of life, dead pan, in your face.

They also supported without problems any kind of direct tap water changes without any water treatment nor temperature adjustment. They where just growing bigger and bigger....

Loll.
Click to expand...

I Like Rare Fish said:
When I was younger we used to get big gallon mason jars and bring them to our local creek with buckets and nets. We would scoop out muck and water from the bottom and we would bring it home, and when it settled we would admire the little Crawdads, snails, any fish unlucky enough to be in the muck, and any little other creatures. It would be completely settled and a perfect capsule looking into our local creeks. Of course we would return it a couple days later, but it really fun. Be careful with the mud and sticks you brought from the creek though, in a handful of muck it wasn’t uncommon to see 20 miniature crawdads and who knows how many snails - and there were probably snail eggs and little larvae. Be careful!
Click to expand...
On a more recent note, my 10yo brother brought home a trio of tadpoles from a local pond (one with what I believe is a little sewage drain, as it has a yellow tarp tube surrounding it to keep plastic from dispersing) in an old Fireball Shooter he found on the bank...and then proceeded to put them in his empty 18.9L bowfront. As many times as we've tried taking things home (from baby barn swallows nested in hair to garter snakes in the pockets of various zip-ups), this was the first my mother didn't prohibit (although she reconsidered after my brother and I performed a daring rescue that involved taking apart the plumbing of the bathroom sink, with her at work and my father on a business trip 😳)
 
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