Help with stocking

rebe · Aug 6, 2023

Hello all!
Starting a 105 litre planted tank (about 28 gallons), and looking for suggestions/advice in terms of stocking and fish numbers.

I'm thinking ember tetras, Otto catfish. I'd also like some top dwellers like marbled hatchets. Possibly a centerpiece fish like a pearl gourami. What do you think in terms of numbers? I know the Otto catfish like smallish groups and obviously tetras are schooling fish.

Tank isn't cycled yet (I'm doing a fishless cycle) so I have time to decide. From online research, the answers I find vary massively so I was hoping to get some advice from hobbyists/fish keepers. I was thinking of starting off with just the tetras and ottos, and having the option to add a centerpiece fish/ top dwellers down the line. Any thoughts or advice on the number of fish?

powerdyne6 · Aug 6, 2023

Please let us know your tap water parameters specifically PH, GH and KH. You can probably find this info on your cities water authority webpage. This will help members recommend different options and numbers

Byron · Aug 6, 2023

And, the tank dimensions, length especially.

rebe · Aug 6, 2023

powerdyne6 said:
Please let us know your tap water parameters specifically PH, GH and KH. You can probably find this info on your cities water authority webpage. This will help members recommend different options and numbers

I can't find specifics for the village I live in, but my county (Cork, Ireland) has hard water. (279 ppm according to celticwatersolutions.ie) I assume that is general hardness. I have a reverse osmosis machine, so I can soften the water. I can get test strips if you think I need them.

rebe · Aug 6, 2023

Byron said:
And, the tank dimensions, length especially.

The tank dimensions are:
75x35x45 cm (LxWxH)

Thank you!

rebe · Aug 6, 2023

powerdyne6 said:
Please let us know your tap water parameters specifically PH, GH and KH. You can probably find this info on your cities water authority webpage. This will help members recommend different options and numbers

As to PH, I have JBL plus and minus so I can control that exactly. Thanks for your help so far!

Byron · Aug 6, 2023

rebe said:
As to PH, I have JBL plus and minus so I can control that exactly.

No, these chemicals are detrimental to fish, and probably won't work anyway. The pH is connected to the GH and KH/Alkalinity. The GH and especially KH serve to buffer the pH, so it will not fluctuate. Which means you cannot permanently change it, depending upon the GH and KH. If these are high as you suggest, the pH if changed will only return within 24 hours. A fluctuating pH is dangerous to fish. A fish must maintain its blood pH similar to the water it lives in.

The first issue is determining the true GH, KH and pH of the source water. If the GH is in fact 279 ppm [= 15 dH] it is fairly hard. Using RO water, entirely or mixed with tap water, will provide water suited to more fish, depending upon what you like. You will need a test for GH and KH (also pH obviously) if you do a mix, as you must prepare the water the same for each water change. Using just RO is simpler if you decide on very soft water fish.

The dimensions are OK, this is basically a standard 29g tank. Lots of options for small-sized fish like Ember Tetras and otos, and others. If you have a sand substrate you can have cories. All of these will be better with straight RO water.

rebe · Aug 6, 2023

Byron said:
No, these chemicals are detrimental to fish, and probably won't work anyway. The pH is connected to the GH and KH/Alkalinity. The GH and especially KH serve to buffer the pH, so it will not fluctuate. Which means you cannot permanently change it, depending upon the GH and KH. If these are high as you suggest, the pH if changed will only return within 24 hours. A fluctuating pH is dangerous to fish. A fish must maintain its blood pH similar to the water it lives in.

The first issue is determining the true GH, KH and pH of the source water. If the GH is in fact 279 ppm [= 15 dH] it is fairly hard. Using RO water, entirely or mixed with tap water, will provide water suited to more fish, depending upon what you like. You will need a test for GH and KH (also pH obviously) if you do a mix, as you must prepare the water the same for each water change. Using just RO is simpler if you decide on very soft water fish.

The dimensions are OK, this is basically a standard 29g tank. Lots of options for small-sized fish like Ember Tetras and otos, and others. If you have a sand substrate you can have cories. All of these will be better with straight RO water.

Wow, really insightful. Thank you. Good to know about the JBL PH chemicals, I'll avoid using them at all then. Straight RO water has a close to neutral PH? I've heard it can be slightly acidic. I have tests for the GH and KH ordered, will use the PH tests from the Api master fresh water kit. I'll have all the parameters later in the week, okay if I reply to you again with the numbers? I really appreciate your help

WhistlingBadger · Aug 6, 2023

Back when I had hard well water, I found that using R/O made water changes a terrible chore, as mine would only produce about a gallon of water per hour. If that's the case with you, you might want to look into hard water fish. Many livebearers, some smaller rainbowfish, smaller east African or central American cichlids, and many of the smaller species from Myanmar (especially the Lake Inle species) would do well with your tank dimensions and water chemistry. I always recommend choosing fish to suit your main water source, rather than altering the water to suit the fish.

Colin_T · Aug 6, 2023

Angelfish, discus, most tetras, most barbs, Bettas, gouramis, rasbora, Corydoras and small species of suckermouth catfish all occur in soft water (GH below 150ppm) and a pH below 7.0.

Livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), rainbowfish and goldfish occur in medium hard water with a GH around 200-250ppm and a pH above 7.0.

If you have very hard water (GH above 300ppm) then look at African Rift Lake cichlids, or use distilled or reverse osmosis water to reduce the GH and keep fishes from softer water.

--------------

The tank is too small for angelfish, discus or bigger gouramis and the GH is more suited to livebearers or small Lake Malawi cichlids. If you reduce the GH, then you will have more options including small tetras, barbs, rasboras and gouramis, as well as a variety of small catfish.

rebe · Aug 7, 2023

WhistlingBadger said:
Back when I had hard well water, I found that using R/O made water changes a terrible chore, as mine would only produce about a gallon of water per hour. If that's the case with you, you might want to look into hard water fish. Many livebearers, some smaller rainbowfish, smaller east African or central American cichlids, and many of the smaller species from Myanmar (especially the Lake Inle species) would do well with your tank dimensions and water chemistry. I always recommend choosing fish to suit your main water source, rather than altering the water to suit the fish.

Thank you. After I've tested the water parameters, I'll reconsider which fish I'll tailor the tank for if the water is very hard. I wouldn't mind running the water through the RO machine but if it'll be a tedious job like you suggest maybe I won't. Appreciate your insights

rebe · Aug 7, 2023

Colin_T said:
Angelfish, discus, most tetras, most barbs, Bettas, gouramis, rasbora, Corydoras and small species of suckermouth catfish all occur in soft water (GH below 150ppm) and a pH below 7.0.

Livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), rainbowfish and goldfish occur in medium hard water with a GH around 200-250ppm and a pH above 7.0.

If you have very hard water (GH above 300ppm) then look at African Rift Lake cichlids, or use distilled or reverse osmosis water to reduce the GH and keep fishes from softer water.

--------------

The tank is too small for angelfish, discus or bigger gouramis and the GH is more suited to livebearers or small Lake Malawi cichlids. If you reduce the GH, then you will have more options including small tetras, barbs, rasboras and gouramis, as well as a variety of small catfish.

Thank you, this is really useful information! I appreciate it!

Naughts · Aug 8, 2023

rebe said:
. I was thinking of starting off with just the tetras and ottos

If you do stick with this plan, don't add otos until the tank is established at 6-12 months. They are grazers and can easily starve to death in a new tank.

rebe · Aug 8, 2023

Naughts said:
If you do stick with this plan, don't add otos until the tank is established at 6-12 months. They are grazers and can easily starve to death in a new tank.

That's a really great tip, thank you!

rebe · Aug 10, 2023

Hello everyone! Thanks so much for all your help so far. I have just used test strips and a liquid ph test on the straight tap water from my house. I'm still looking for fish recommendations, so it would be great if you could have a look at the tests and offer some advice?

Note: I have an RO filter on the way, but since you suggested that using pure RO water or a mix of tap, would be a big job for water changes.

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