Which substrate and how much!

Laurabhspt said:

How interesting! I have a group of 4 - now they are in the bigger tank I would like a couple more. And mine have always done everything you’ve mentioned. Mine always napped between 9-10am, in the same spots lol. The first time they greyed out I thought they were dying! The other thing mine do is put their noses and tails together and swim around as if their sides are glued together. It’s nice to see them happy
My 2nd pleco is nowhere to be seen tho! Hopefully he’s just enjoying all the new places to hide

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Adding more to an existing group can be problematic. How long have you had these four? I would get the additional ASAP, and more than just two to help with any bullying. Another three or even another four. Forgotten the tank size but assume 4 feet (120 cm) length.

Byron said:

Adding more to an existing group can be problematic. How long have you had these four? I would get the additional ASAP, and more than just two to help with any bullying. Another three or even another four. Forgotten the tank size but assume 4 feet (120 cm) length.

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Oh ok, I will look into this soon then. I originally had two, then found out they needed to be in groups of six but then the fish shop I went to for additional would only let me have two more cos the tank size, they intergrated well. Now the tank size is 150cm x 50cm x 60cm. I would say these are all under a year old… can’t remember exactly, but they were the only fish that I added to the tank that my FIL gave me, and I’ve only had that not even 18m. I don’t want to rock the boat with them. If I got another group of 4 do you think they would form their own group? Hmmm maybe I just leave them as they are, you’ve given me pause for thought….

Just checked my pictures. Got the first two in September and the second two in November.the second two you can still make out their “yo-yo” markings, the older twos stripes have changed now

The tank from those dimensions is 5 feet length (150 cm) so that is perfect. You ideally (meaning, in the best interests of the fish) can add 3, 4, 5 or 6 more so far as tank space. You also need lots of chunks of wood, they will excavate under this(the wood chunks will just settled down in the sand, maybe to the bottom glass panel, not a problem) so they can each have "their" home space.

As promised it’s now full and as you can see the loaches have turfed some ornaments about and dug out all the corners lol. Just waiting on another air pump as all the ones that came with the tank are naff so just got the one stone at the minute. Eventually I will probably add some floating plants, or maybe grow some on some drift wood like those “bonsai” trees. Thanks again everyone!

Lovely. The loaches would be appreciative of floating plants, there is a lot of light reflecting off the sand (to the fish, this is significant). I cannot see a loach in the photo, and this is not surprising given the openness. Worth remediating.

Byron said:

Lovely. The loaches would be appreciative of floating plants, there is a lot of light reflecting off the sand (to the fish, this is significant). I cannot see a loach in the photo, and this is not surprising given the openness. Worth remediating.

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Thanks for the tips, here’s the loaches - when I took the first picture I had just topped up the water so they were hiding, but they’ve been sleeping both under things and on top of things, as well as swimming about together. Will certainly try for some floating plants, I didn’t realise the reflections off the sand is an issue, how can you tell if it’s reflecting and if it’s too much? The loaches have loads of places to hide - but you think the tank is still too open for them?

Yes, that is too open. I've no idea on the light intensity, but the easy solution is always floating plants. Substantial species are better for this, Water sprite especially, followed by Frogbit and Water Lettuce. Small floater like duckweed really don't do much at all, they are not substantial enough to block light. The loach's patterning is a bit light, and it will darken with floating plants. And that means less stress, as the fading of external patterning on most fish is often due to openness, or bright light, or fear of what is around them. All cause stress.

Here's a photo of my 90g that housed the five Botia kubotai, and you can see the sharpness of the pattern on the loach at the bottom left. Except the two females doing the greying out during their dance, this sharpness was normal. Same occurred with my dwarf loaches too in another tank.

Byron said:

Yes, that is too open. I've no idea on the light intensity, but the easy solution is always floating plants. Substantial species are better for this, Water sprite especially, followed by Frogbit and Water Lettuce. Small floater like duckweed really don't do much at all, they are not substantial enough to block light. The loach's patterning is a bit light, and it will darken with floating plants. And that means less stress, as the fading of external patterning on most fish is often due to openness, or bright light, or fear of what is around them. All cause stress.

Here's a photo of my 90g that housed the five Botia kubotai, and you can see the sharpness of the pattern on the loach at the bottom left. Except the two females doing the greying out during their dance, this sharpness was normal. Same occurred with my dwarf loaches too in another tank.

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Thankyou, in the first picture there is a loach on the ship and two under the wood in the middle.
Wow yeah, your loaches are really striking, I’ll admit mine aren’t always this grey - they were dancing when I took the picture, but certainly not ever as black as yours. If they didn’t eat all the plants I would have definitely planted this tank but they literally ate every single part of the last plants I had and they were full established bushes that was taking over the whole tank. I’m a matter of weeks they had eaten the lot!

As a temporary measure with regards the light - as it’s just a tube on top I can rotate it and dim it down, I had it facing straight into the middle of the tank for a picture, but usually I place it more towards the back, but I could also rotate it to have it more reflecting into the tank rather than beaming - maybe that will help in the mean time…

Laurabhspt said:

Thankyou, in the first picture there is a loach on the ship and two under the wood in the middle.
Wow yeah, your loaches are really striking, I’ll admit mine aren’t always this grey - they were dancing when I took the picture, but certainly not ever as black as yours. If they didn’t eat all the plants I would have definitely planted this tank but they literally ate every single part of the last plants I had and they were full established bushes that was taking over the whole tank. I’m a matter of weeks they had eaten the lot!

As a temporary measure with regards the light - as it’s just a tube on top I can rotate it and dim it down, I had it facing straight into the middle of the tank for a picture, but usually I place it more towards the back, but I could also rotate it to have it more reflecting into the tank rather than beaming - maybe that will help in the mean time…

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This can easily be rectified, but if left as is it will cause trouble down the road. If you can lessen the light somehow, try that. Then when the floating plants are on the surface you can increase it a bit for them. The plants are in the backdrop are they not? So light into the tank is unnecessary and solely for your observation.

The number will improve things too, those additional loaches will help this fish.

You don't really need lower plants, but you do need lots and lots of cover. I remember someone's advice when I got my loaches that each loach will select its "home" and once it does all others will know it. The hierarchy is no laughing matter. But there has to be a sufficient number of available homes so each loach gets the one he/she wants.

It is also true, the old adage, that the more cover available to them, the more they will be out because it settles them. When I took photos of my 90g over the years I often never captured the loaches, because they did not like the activity. When I sat there quietly, they were out chasing one another through tunnels and having a high-o time.

I’ve just turned and moved my light - and they e actually come out and and are chasing each other and have darkened up! I didn’t realise the impact! Even the fourth is now out playing

There you go!

I am still worried about adding more here...if these are doing this well, it would be advisable to not rock the boat. The longer they are together, the more set the hierarchy issues.

I also suggest sand instead of gravel.