Glow Fish Care

Hello TFF. Does anyone keep Glow Fish? They look like brightly colored Tetras to me, but I may be mistaken. Do they require any special care? I'm keeping various kinds of Tetras in unheated tanks. The water temperature is roughly 72 degrees, which isn't very tropical, but the water has good oxygen content and I change half the water weekly. The fish seem fine. What else is there to know if I want to keep Glow Fish?

10 Tanks (Now 11)

In a word, don't keep them (well, I guess that is three words! or 4 if you consider the contraction as two words.).

The reason the hobby is opposed to this fish is because it is a genetic manipulation inserting genes of something else (jellyfish maybe, doesn't matter what) and getting these "glo" colours. This may be less harmful to the fish themselves than are other similar practices such as deliberately deforming "balloon" fish, or injecting dyes. If this effort was directed at preserving natural species and habitats, we would not have such a crisis with species becoming extinct. But these travesties are geared only for one thing--money in the pockets of those who do them.

Glofish are banned by the European Union. I believe @Essjay has mentioned the same holds in the UK. It seems only we in the Americas are in favour of padding the pockets of the despicable individuals who continue to do these things.

As for the "species," this has now been done to some tetras (Black Skirt/Widow, maybe others) and danios (Zebra, maybe others). Supporting this also works to give the animal rights folks good ammunition against the hobby. If we stood up against it, it would be a feather in our cap.

I refuse to do any business with any store which sells glofish or young, and therefore small, tank busters to anybody who asks.

Glow fish are not hard to keep. They are manufactured to be abuse-able by kids. But like everyone has been stating, they are not well-liked in the hobby for various reasons. If you're looking for some less controversial color, there are many more "natural" (and less deformed/inbred) tetras, cichlids, or other tropicals.

Hello again. I've done a little research and am really "on the fence" on getting these fish. Here's what I've found in the following information from Aquarium Co Op: "GloFish are not just one type of fish but rather a collection of freshwater species that have been genetically modified with fluorescent protein genes that naturally occur in jellyfish, sea anemones, corals, and other marine life. They were originally developed by scientists to study genetics and help detect certain pollutants in the water, but their dazzling appearance made them a popular addition to the aquarium fish industry. These special fluorescent genes cause the GloFish to vibrantly glow under blue light and does not appear to impact their quality of life." With good care, the fish can live fairly long, healthy lives.

I'll definitely continue my research, but they're interesting fish.

10 Tanks (Now 11)

The tetra version are silvery easy to breed fish - Widow/Skirt tetras and recently Pristellas. The gene splice doesn't show well with every species. Other than that, they are just ordinary tetras with their distinctiveness washed out by the jellyfish genes.
Glo-danios were developed for water quality testing, as the glow changes in pollution. They were copyrighted, and for a long time that limited their sales. They only got into my country a few years ago. The issue was breeding, which was illegal under copyright. They were easy to breed and mass produce, and the patent holders wanted no fish bootleggers..

They're fascinating fish if you consider the ideal habitat to be a laboratory followed by a fish manufacturing process. I don't consider them any worse than linebred guppies or fancy Bettas, and they are less cruel than balloon fish, blood parrots or celestial goldfish. At least the fish isn't twisted up for convenience, and can live a normal life.

Based on your past postings, they would fit perfectly. Gymnocorymbus ternetzi, the skirt tetra and the main one, was popular before tank heating was available and is good around 70f. I don't know if the glow comes off in cool water though. You might need to go to 12 tanks and get the largest glo-fish kit you can to get the right artificial light for them.

Hello Gary. I like what you're saying about these fish. I'm thinking the modification of these different species isn't a lot different than all that's been done to Goldfish to change them. I'd like to introduce some of the "Skirts" to my unheated tanks. The temperature doesn't vary from 70 to 72 degrees. I've never been a fan of heated tanks, that's simply an added cost and most seem unreliable. I've noticed these new fish aren't cheap either. But, maybe a few would be nice just to see how they'd do in cooler water. My other Tetras are fine in the cooler water.

Thanks for your input.

10 Tanks (Now 11)

There is a big difference between line breeding fish to emphasize and/or fix a specific color or even fin size and genetically modifying an animal. In nature there is some natural hybridizing. There is no natural gene splicing.

And platys and swordtails are some of the most used fish in genetic research involving cancer.
http://www.xiphophorus.txstate.edu/

TwoTankAmin said:

There is a big difference between line breeding fish to emphasize and/or fix a specific color or even fin size and genetically modifying an animal. In nature there is some natural hybridizing. There is no natural gene splicing.

And platys and swordtails are some of the most used fish in genetic research involving cancer.
http://www.xiphophorus.txstate.edu/

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I realize this thread was probably planned as a controversy starter...

Hybridizing is gmo work. It occurs naturally if fish meet in the wild, and is a force in the creation of new species. However, most hobby crosses are as unnatural as gene splicing. They're between fish that would never encounter each other under natural conditions.

Linebreeding is changing a fish to suit human tastes. So is gene splicing. Both take enormous skill.

A gene spliced zebra doesn't have the physical problems a long fin has (unless it's a spliced longfin). So we could argue it's more ethical to insert jellyifish genes than to do an old fashioned selection of a mutant gene for out of control fin growth.

If you go through the Xiphophorus/sword platy cancer reesearch, they use carefully conserved live lines of wild caught origin fish. Some lines were started with fish caught in the 1920s, and kept as breeding lines since. They only hybridize them to trigger cancers for research. It was a doctor hobbyist playing with his fish by crossing them who discovered he could trigger the predictable onset of Melanoma for research. It's good for humans, but the hybridization kills the fish.

I'm a wild type purist. I haven't linebred since I was in my teens, with guppies. That side of the hobby only interests me to learn about it - I don't like the fish it produces. But I have a relative who gene spliced zebrafish for cancer research subjects, and his skills and learning are very impressive. He doesn't use them commercially, to mass produce living ornaments. I have friends who linebreed fancy guppies and other livebearers, and they love their hobby. They have great knowledge of that side of our pastime. You can't be consistent if you denounce glo-fish but keep fancy bettas, blood parrots or fancy guppies.

Linebreeding is changing a fish to suit human tastes. So is gene splicing. Both take enormous skill.

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Really I cannot splice a gene but I can line breed fish to fix a trait. In nature genetic mutation is a natural thing. If s mutation proves to be adventageous, it will tend to spread and a species will be modified in some fashion. This was the central premise behind something we have know for some time now:

survival of the fittest, term made famous in the fifth edition (published in 1869) of On the Origin of Species by British naturalist Charles Darwin, which suggested that organisms best adjusted to their environment are the most successful in surviving and reproducing.

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The above is a random phenomenon, it is not the result of human manipulation. Botanists for years worked with grafting until geneticists found out how to manipulate things at the genetic level. Tell me how a jeelyfish gen would naturally become incorporated in a danio? The two species cannot even exist in the other's environment.

You can't be consistent if you denounce glo-fish but keep fancy bettas, blood parrots or fancy guppies.

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Yes you can. there is a big difference between taking fish with slightly longer fins and line breeding for that and intentionally trying to create hybrids that would never happen in nature. In the wild there is no dating service to match up male and female fish with slightly longer fins. And if they did occur in nature, the odds are they would not last a they cannot swim as fast as their species mates and would soon become food for something else or would be less able to compete for food or mating.

When it comes to line breeding, it often produces in captivity variations which, if they occurred in the wild would never become permanent as they decrease the survival rate of such fish.

Nature is way smarter than we are.

Hello. Was asked by a local office to set up and maintain a 55 gallon tank. Apparently, it was ordered by an employee but never really used and it's quite a nice set up. Attached is a photo of the finished aqua scaped tank. It doesn't have fish in it yet and the employees wanted Glofish. That's the reason for my original post. The tank isn't heated, so the Glofish will be Danios. The local pet store has them at $7.00 each which isn't bad. Apparently, they're as hardy as the orginals, so we'll see. The plan is to allow the tank to run until the end of this month and then, I'll perform a 50 percent water change and use a couple of used sponges from one of my larger tanks and dose some ATM bacteria starter and add half a dozen of the Glofish.

10 Tanks (Now 11)

@TwoTankAmin To me, the techniques don't matter. It's the goal.

Producing fish that could not survive in the wild because we like the pretty results of our work is just that. You can't argue it's natural selection because it's genetic manipulation by a conscious creator, the breeder. Someone has decided to play nature, gather the learning and skills and set out on a genetics experiment. If it is done by gene splicing, it manipulates a natural process (glo-fish breed true) as much as setting a line (balloon mollies breed true). Splicing genes is a means to an end, so is linebreeding. Neither produces fish that could last in nature. That's the bottom line.

I've had xanthic mutations occur in a killifish species I've kept for 20 or so years. I got them direct from Cameroon. I breed them in a group. The xanthic fish were a mutation, and the tank has no predators. I didn't remove them from a breeding group of 30+ fish, and their offspring if they had any never showed xanthism again. It's been about 12 years now since they appeared, and vanished. If I were a linebreeder, I would have manipulated the random mutation, removed the mutants, and gone through a very rigorous process of crossing parent to young, culling non xanthic fish etc. Mutations are random but linebreeding to set mutations is a skilled craft..

Whether you like it or not depends on opinion.

If we look at hybrids - they are crosses between distinct biological species. In the hobby, they include crosses between South American and North American fish, or fish that occur thousands of km apart. They are a different process than linebreeding. You don't make hybrids by selecting for traits. In swordtails, there are two species, Xiphophorus monticola and clemenciae whose DNA shows them to be ancient hybrids - a few tens of thousands of years back. They get mentioned because a cross like theirs, a sword and a platy, are uncommon species starters in nature, and they jump out as extra interesting within their species rich group. Hybridization is a driver in evolution, but most hybrids are dead ends.

Glofish are exactly what their species are as far as caring for them. If you're using them for a client's tank, check their temperature needs. I'll never keep them but I have heard they fade in cooler temperatures and you might want to check that. You said they'd be at 72f in your home tanks, but a show tank might need a heater. Offices often get cold at night too.

Hello Gary. Thanks for the advice. I didn't know there were so many species that have been used to create Glofish. Anyway, Danios are the best choice if you're determined to keep Glofish. They're cool water fish and are fine with water as cool as 64 degrees. So, I don't plan to use a heater. I'll check to make sure the building doesn't get too cold. I think with good food and weekly, large water changes, the fish should be fine. The tank is 55 gallons and I'm thinking no more than a dozen.

10 Tanks (Now 11)

I breed Hypoancistrus plecos from the the Rio Xingu. Species there interbreed. This is a known and accepted fact. Serious breeders of these fish, myself included, take great care not to mix these fish in the same tank as a result.

Several Catfish conventions ago I had a chat with one of the world's well known experts in plecos and other fish- he is published scientifically, speaks the world over and has his name on respected books. I was asking him for a favor, I need a positive ID on a species I had acquired and needed to be sure of what it was because I did not want to be selling the offspring as something they were not. I also told him I would never use his ID as a way to sell the offspring. Ultimately he and a second person of equal repute came to my hotel room and confirmed what I had. Sorry I cannot tell you which species.

However, I had a discussion in the lobby with this expert as to what the odds might be that two species which had only L-numbers and had never been identified might be. Theses fish both came from the same habitat. I told him what my opinion, based only on my personal experience working with both L-numbers in capticity, was and that was one would almost certainly be identified as a species in the future but that I felt the second was a natural hybrid and would never be identified as a distinct species.

I was quite surprised when this person agreed with me. He has explored bodies of water all over the world. When I compared my knowledge and expertise to his it was like comparing the knowledge of a 1st grader to a Ph.D. I am not sure if over the weekeend I was more excited to be able to confirm the species I had or that my opinion jibed with a real expert's.

The point is that fish of similar species can and do hybridize. All of the plecos under discussion above live in the Big Bend of the Rio Xingu. Many are only found there and nowhere else.

Also, coloration as a function of genetics is matter of specific different fish spawning together. In a tank most fish will meet all the other fish in the tank with great ease. This is not the case in the natural world for the most part. In the wild there is enough space that if we consider all the individuals in a species inhabiting a given area, most individuals will never even meet most of the rest of their species in that area.

And then there is nature. What makes one fish mate with another is usually the result of natural selection. Nature works to keep species strong. As aresult in many case the best and strongest females spawn with males of the same caliber. This tends to insure the quality of the offspring. It is not a perfect system but it is one which has worked for a longer time than we can determine.

And what about populations of species that become limited in terms of their range? These tend to differ between such groupings as to some of their features. Killie folks often describe their fish in terms of their geographical catch location. Because populations are separated, they will not breed with each other. But if a group of fish from each distinct population were removed and put together somewhere, they will naturally spawn with each other.

In nature mutations occur. Some fish will have longer or smaller fins than average. Where this creates a difference in the ability of a fish to survive, these mutations do not take hold. However, in a species only tank engineered by us, survival can be arranged. But I have little doubt that such mutations could never become fixed in the wild. Long fin plecos or corys can generally thrive in a tank but would never do so in the wild.

However, there is absolutely no way a sw jellyfish and any species of freshwater fish would ever mate. There is no way they would ever share genes unless they were artificially manipulated in a lab. So I do not agree with your thinking that line breeding within a species and gene splicing of distinctly difference species, or even more seperated species on the genetic scale, could ever occur naturally. Nor are they even close to being the same thing.

But, if you can introduce me to the fish which are scientists who are splicing genes between distinct species, I would be happy to have have a discussion with them about why your assumption is valid. Or more simply, explain to me how a danio or tetra can survive and spawn in the ocean with a jelly or a sw jelly can do the same in FW. I can explain to you how different fw species of live bearer have naturally hybridized or how it happens with Hypancustrus.

Now this does not mean it is OK or not OK to create long finned bristlenose, however, it does explain why this might happen in nature but it doesn't mean that such an offspring with longer fins can survive to mating size/age. Nor does it explain how in a large population of this species two such indivudals would even manage to spawn with each other to further "line breeding."

The species we see in the hobby that are the result of line breeding to fix traits are normally the ones which are able to reproduce at a fairly young age. If it takes a fish 5 years to reach sexual maturity and one needs several generations to fix a trait, such species are not often prime candidate for such projects. The one thing that might change this is if the resulting frish will sell for a lot of money and the ability to reproduce them is not too difficult as well. We are talking $1,000s/fish basically.