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sparkypenguin

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Hi all,

I recently had a good discussion on here about the minimum number that should be kept of particular species and during that discussion discovered that my tank may have some fish that may well be unsuited to the tanks water conditions , hence this new post to try and establish which inhabitants can stay.

Thanks in advance for any help and apologies for the thread length but I have tried to pre-empt most questions by listing everything below that I believe may be relevant and I have added a couple of pictures.
If anyone spots a newbie(ish) error in anything I am doing then please let me know.

The Question
My main question, based on the fact that...
I do not "want" to get rid of any of my fish,
I want to ensure that they have a "good" life,
and I do not want to start trying to change my water conditions,
is, do I need to get rid of any of my inhabitants ❓

The Inhabitants
2 x Apple Snails
5 x Panda Cories
9 x Black Phantom Tetras
5 x Adult Mollies (all female)
5 x Adult Platys (all female)
Approx. 15 young mollies of varying sizes (mainly female)
Approx. 15 young platys of varying sizes (mainly female)

Tank Hardware
My tank is a 340L / 90G fresh water tropical.
Dimensions LxHxD = 120 x 50 x 50cm / 48 x 19.5 x 19.5".
It has 2 heaters, 1 at either side of the tank and I run the tank at around 24-26°C / 75-79°F.
Filtration is by way of an internal fluval U3 (600L/hr) and an external fluval 303 (840L/hr) which returns via a full tank spray bar.
Filtration media comprises of sponge and ceramic and the 2 filters theoretically turn the water over approx. 4 times per hour.
It has a sand substrate with drift / bog wood, quite a few plastic plants and a few live plants and 2 air stones.

Routines
I change approx. 10 Ltrs per day which equates to approx. 20% per week and a treat the tap water with Prime, although I do tend to use more than stated as I believe it is ok to do so?
The water is usually very clear with the occasional cloudy day due to my plecs destroying a courgette.
I do not hoover the sand very often as I find I have to disturb all of the decor to do so and it stresses the fish, although I am working on a more fish friendly hoovering / waste clearing method.
I feed my fish a variety of foods, mainly dried, and they always seem to eat it all.
I use test tube API kits to monitor my water condition and I do not have any issues with NH3, NO2 or NO3.

My pH / hardness tank water parameters over the course of the last year are as follows

pH
Average Min Max
7.4 7 7.5
I have excluded 3 readings (7.8,7.8 and 8) which were recorded during 2 short periods of time when my water KH/GH mysteriously increased.
My LWA state a tap water of between 7 to 8.4 with an average of 7.8 but in my experience it has always been around 7.1.
This does leave me wondering why my tank would be running at around 7.4 as I do not believe I have anything in the tank that would increase the pH.
And as far as I know the LWA do not add anything to the water that would result in a pH increase post tap but it must be said that they have been very vague about this and have never called me back when they have promised to look into it further.
Am I correct that my tank pH would be classed as close to neutral ❓

KH - °dH
Average Min Max
4.4 3 6
I have excluded 3 readings (8,8.5 and 9) which were recorded during 2 short periods of time when my water KH/GH mysteriously increased.
My LWA state a tap water of between 0.9 to 10.7 with an average of 4.3 but in my experience it appears to vary between 2 to 8 averaging around 5 which seems to be fairly close to my tank readings.
Should I be concerned that my KH drops to 3 at times ❓


GH - °dH
Average Min Max
10 5 12
I have excluded 3 readings (8,8.5 and 9) which were recorded during 2 short periods of time when my water KH/GH mysteriously increased.
My LWA state a tap water of between 3.7 to 8.2 with an average of 5.9 but in my experience it appears to vary between 6 to 12 averaging around 10 which seems to be fairly close to my tank readings.
So depending on the information source I suspect my tank would be classed as a soft to medium ❓

Thanks for taking the time to read my post and any help would be much appreciated. :thanks:
 

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sparkypenguin said:
Hi all,

I recently had a good discussion on here about the minimum number that should be kept of particular species and during that discussion discovered that my tank may have some fish that may well be unsuited to the tanks water conditions , hence this new post to try and establish which inhabitants can stay.

Thanks in advance for any help and apologies for the thread length but I have tried to pre-empt most questions by listing everything below that I believe may be relevant and I have added a couple of pictures.
If anyone spots a newbie(ish) error in anything I am doing then please let me know.

The Question
My main question, based on the fact that...
I do not "want" to get rid of any of my fish,
I want to ensure that they have a "good" life,
and I do not want to start trying to change my water conditions,
is, do I need to get rid of any of my inhabitants ❓

The Inhabitants
2 x Apple Snails
5 x Panda Cories
9 x Black Phantom Tetras
5 x Adult Mollies (all female)
5 x Adult Platys (all female)
Approx. 15 young mollies of varying sizes (mainly female)
Approx. 15 young platys of varying sizes (mainly female)

Tank Hardware
My tank is a 340L / 90G fresh water tropical.
Dimensions LxHxD = 120 x 50 x 50cm / 48 x 19.5 x 19.5".
It has 2 heaters, 1 at either side of the tank and I run the tank at around 24-26°C / 75-79°F.
Filtration is by way of an internal fluval U3 (600L/hr) and an external fluval 303 (840L/hr) which returns via a full tank spray bar.
Filtration media comprises of sponge and ceramic and the 2 filters theoretically turn the water over approx. 4 times per hour.
It has a sand substrate with drift / bog wood, quite a few plastic plants and a few live plants and 2 air stones.

Routines
I change approx. 10 Ltrs per day which equates to approx. 20% per week and a treat the tap water with Prime, although I do tend to use more than stated as I believe it is ok to do so?
The water is usually very clear with the occasional cloudy day due to my plecs destroying a courgette.
I do not hoover the sand very often as I find I have to disturb all of the decor to do so and it stresses the fish, although I am working on a more fish friendly hoovering / waste clearing method.
I feed my fish a variety of foods, mainly dried, and they always seem to eat it all.
I use test tube API kits to monitor my water condition and I do not have any issues with NH3, NO2 or NO3.

My pH / hardness tank water parameters over the course of the last year are as follows

pH
Average Min Max
7.4 7 7.5
I have excluded 3 readings (7.8,7.8 and 8) which were recorded during 2 short periods of time when my water KH/GH mysteriously increased.
My LWA state a tap water of between 7 to 8.4 with an average of 7.8 but in my experience it has always been around 7.1.
This does leave me wondering why my tank would be running at around 7.4 as I do not believe I have anything in the tank that would increase the pH.
And as far as I know the LWA do not add anything to the water that would result in a pH increase post tap but it must be said that they have been very vague about this and have never called me back when they have promised to look into it further.
Am I correct that my tank pH would be classed as close to neutral ❓

KH - °dH
Average Min Max
4.4 3 6
I have excluded 3 readings (8,8.5 and 9) which were recorded during 2 short periods of time when my water KH/GH mysteriously increased.
My LWA state a tap water of between 0.9 to 10.7 with an average of 4.3 but in my experience it appears to vary between 2 to 8 averaging around 5 which seems to be fairly close to my tank readings.
Should I be concerned that my KH drops to 3 at times ❓


GH - °dH
Average Min Max
10 5 12
I have excluded 3 readings (8,8.5 and 9) which were recorded during 2 short periods of time when my water KH/GH mysteriously increased.
My LWA state a tap water of between 3.7 to 8.2 with an average of 5.9 but in my experience it appears to vary between 6 to 12 averaging around 10 which seems to be fairly close to my tank readings.
So depending on the information source I suspect my tank would be classed as a soft to medium ❓

Thanks for taking the time to read my post and any help would be much appreciated. :thanks:
Click to expand...
Maybe a pair of Rams as the main show fish would be a great addition. (They would also keep the molly population stable).
 
I like your mix of fish. Sounds good to me. The Tetra's don't seem like they would be a good fit with the livebearers but if they get along then why not.
I prefer species only aquariums. The fish exhibit their true behaviors when among only their own kind and aren't looking over their shoulders for enemies or looking at other fish as food.
 
@sparkypenguin I don't think water chemistry is as all important as others but before I ignite a firestorm let me explain.
As long as your water is not at the extremes of hardness and pH you should be generally OK. Most commonly available aquarium fish adapt well .
More important is good clean water changed regularly.
 
sparkypenguin said:
The Question
My main question, based on the fact that...
I do not "want" to get rid of any of my fish,
I want to ensure that they have a "good" life,
and I do not want to start trying to change my water conditions,
is, do I need to get rid of any of my inhabitants ❓
Click to expand...
No, unless you find they become territorial (nipping etc), or start reproducing and exceed the tank's limits. You are very kind to let them live out their life in a good and familiar home.
sparkypenguin said:
Routines
I change approx. 10 Ltrs per day which equates to approx. 20% per week and a treat the tap water with Prime, although I do tend to use more than stated as I believe it is ok to do so?
Click to expand...
I use Prime and it is outstanding. It says on the label you can use more if needed. Just don't over-do it. I use an eye dropper to administer small amounts. It is more precise.
sparkypenguin said:
I feed my fish a variety of foods, mainly dried, and they always seem to eat it all.
I use test tube API kits to monitor my water condition and I do not have any issues with NH3, NO2 or NO3.
Click to expand...
Mollies are extremely vulnerable to ammonia. It looks like you are on top of it with your frequent partial water exchanges.
sparkypenguin said:
My pH / hardness tank water parameters over the course of the last year are as follows

pH
Average Min Max
7.4 7 7.5
I have excluded 3 readings (7.8,7.8 and 8) which were recorded during 2 short periods of time when my water KH/GH mysteriously increased.
My LWA state a tap water of between 7 to 8.4 with an average of 7.8 but in my experience it has always been around 7.1.
This does leave me wondering why my tank would be running at around 7.4 as I do not believe I have anything in the tank that would increase the pH.
And as far as I know the LWA do not add anything to the water that would result in a pH increase post tap but it must be said that they have been very vague about this and have never called me back when they have promised to look into it further.
Am I correct that my tank pH would be classed as close to neutral ❓
Click to expand...
Neutral is 7.0 but I don't see any problem with your readings since they fall into the 'normal' range if there is one!
sparkypenguin said:
KH - °dH
Average Min Max
4.4 3 6
I have excluded 3 readings (8,8.5 and 9) which were recorded during 2 short periods of time when my water KH/GH mysteriously increased.
My LWA state a tap water of between 0.9 to 10.7 with an average of 4.3 but in my experience it appears to vary between 2 to 8 averaging around 5 which seems to be fairly close to my tank readings.
Should I be concerned that my KH drops to 3 at times ❓
Click to expand...
No unless your fish show signs of stress.
sparkypenguin said:
GH - °dH
Average Min Max
10 5 12

So depending on the information source I suspect my tank would be classed as a soft to medium ❓
Click to expand...
Your water is soft to moderately hard. Again, I wouldn't worry about it.
sparkypenguin said:
Thanks for taking the time to read my post and any help would be much appreciated. :thanks:
Click to expand...
I think your tank is in good hands. The last thing I would do manipulate your water parameters. Just keep up the frequent water exchanges and let your fish population gracefully age as you are doing.
 
Agree with the above.

Generally speaking, livebearers are hard water fish, and tetras prefer soft water...but I do believe they can coexist, in certain situations.

And as is already probably known, the livebearers breed like mad, in most circumstances...you will have many more in the future, which may become burdensome
 
The main issue is the GH. But we need to know the unit here, is it 10 dH, 5 dH and 12 dH, or is it 10ppm, 5 ppm and 12 ppm?
 
Thanks to everyone for replies..

Slaphppy7 said:
And as is already probably known, the livebearers breed like mad, in most circumstances...you will have many more in the future, which may become burdensome
Click to expand...
I have a LFS that takes them and I get a small shop credit, the biggest issue is catching them as it causes the other fish stress. I'm working on making a trap of some sort that I can use.

Byron said:
The main issue is the GH. But we need to know the unit here, is it 10 dH, 5 dH and 12 dH, or is it 10ppm, 5 ppm and 12 ppm?
Click to expand...
Hi Byron, It's all in dh.

And this is the table I am using to establish if it is soft etc..
4-8 °dH (70-140 ppm) = soft
8-12 °dH (140-210 ppm) = medium
12-18 °dH (210-320 ppm) = hard
18-30 °dH (320-530 ppm) = very hard
 
sparkypenguin said:
4-8 °dH (70-140 ppm) = soft
8-12 °dH (140-210 ppm) = medium
12-18 °dH (210-320 ppm) = hard
18-30 °dH (320-530 ppm) = very hard
Click to expand...
Not sure thats all that accurate. Soft water is around 60 ppm or less, 60 - 120 ppm is medium (moderately hard), 120 - 280 ppm is hard water and anything above is very hard. That's what I was taught, anyways.
 
Maingano said:
Not sure thats all that accurate. Soft water is around 60 ppm or less, 60 - 120 ppm is medium (moderately hard), 120 - 280 ppm is hard water and anything above is very hard. That's what I was taught, anyways.
Click to expand...
I checked on several sites and contradictory information across them. I looked to see if there was one on here in the pinned posts but could not see anything.
 
Last edited:
sparkypenguin said:
I checked on several sites and contradictory information across them. I looked to see if there was one on here in the pinned posts but could not see anything. However 60ppm equates to 3.35 dH and I have read that anything below 4 is fatal to fish?
Click to expand...
Anything under 40 - 45 ppm is fatal for fish (1.5 - 2.0dH). Yeah it's odd. Not sure whats right, now tbh. Well at long as your water hardness is in the range of all of those possibilities, you can't be wrong haha
 
I researched this a few years ago for an article on water hardness and fish. This chart is accepted by the reliable sources. Just remember it is arbitrary and subjective terms ("soft, hard, very soft, etc) mean what they mean only to the person using them. But this chart is as I say a guide.

0 - 4 dGH / 0 - 70 ppm very soft

4 - 8 dGH / 70 - 140 ppm soft

8 - 12 dGH / 140 - 210 ppm medium hard

12 - 18 dGH / 210 - 320 ppm fairly hard

18 - 30 dGH / 320 - 530 ppm hard

over 30 dGH / over 530 ppm very hard
 
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