Possibly switching from gravel to black sand for substrate.

itiwhetu said:

Why add anything to your tank that gives nothing back, glass will add nothing to your tank. But if you add natural neutral gravel, it will add all sorts of minerals back into your system.

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And 'neutral gravel' can cause harm to bottom feeders such as corys. I don't now that I want my substrate to add minerals as my PH is right on perfect for what I eventually want for my main fish at 6.1.

While I want a tank to be perfect for my fish I also want it to be perfect for me. I happen to really like the idea of a Goth tank and that would pretty much require a black substrate.

As far as adding things that give nothing back can you actually say that you do not have even one inert rock in your tank? If you have such a rock what is it giving to the tank? Isn't the fact that you like how it looks enough?

I don't really care if my substrate adds to the tank other than appearance except that it also must do well as a filter. I doubt that you use under gravel filtration as do I. It is actually the closest to nature but can also be used for desired appearance.

If you REALLY want to go with adding nothing that does not add to a tank then why add fish as they just cause issues such as having to do water changes, filter cleaning and such?

jaylach said:

And 'neutral gravel' can cause harm to bottom feeders such as corys. I don't now that I want my substrate to add minerals as my PH is right on perfect for what I eventually want for my main fish at 6.1.

While I want a tank to be perfect for my fish I also want it to be perfect for me. I happen to really like the idea of a Goth tank and that would pretty much require a black substrate.

As far as adding things that give nothing back can you actually say that you do not have even one inert rock in your tank? If you have such a rock what is it giving to the tank? Isn't the fact that you like how it looks enough?

I don't really care if my substrate adds to the tank other than appearance except that it also must do well as a filter. I doubt that you use under gravel filtration as do I. It is actually the closest to nature but can also be used for desired appearance.

If you REALLY want to go with adding nothing that does not add to a tank then why add fish as they just cause issues such as having to do water changes, filter cleaning and such?

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I use under gravel filtration, everything that I add to my tank adds to the environment, even the fish, they provide the fertilizer for the plants.

Every piece of gravel, every rock, every piece of wood, every plant, every fish, I think about carefully before putting it into my aquarium.

itiwhetu said:

I use under gravel filtration, everything that I add to my tank adds to the environment, even the fish, they provide the fertilizer for the plants.

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Well good for you as to using under gravel filtration. I think it is superior to the built in sponge stuff filtration that came with my tank. I still use the built in filtration to move some water but consider my under gravel the real filtration system.

I'm really trying to understand what you are trying to say to me but don't seem to be getting your point.

OK, I want a black substrate so I can have a 'Goth Tank' but that does not matter as to what we are trying to discuss as the glass substrate could be many different colors.

Sigh, I'll do my best to explain what I think but don't know how well I will do...

I want a black substrate that is safe for corys or/and plecos which should be sand. With using under gravel filtration I can't really go sand. It seems that small glass beads are the best alternative. I guess that I could go sand but I'd have to have very well established stem plants to have the roots hold the sand in place, not even close as to being workable short time.

I just don't understand your view as to glass substrate not adding to the tank. It may not have any minerals but it would serve well as the main filtration. What better function for the substrate than to filter via bacteria colonies? Also, with the glass beads being finer and denser it SHOULD take a thinner layer to do the filtration job than normal gravel giving more actual water volume.

I just don't see how it is not a win win aspect.

I have no doubt that your arguments are meant to d o nothing but to help me but I just don't seem to get what you are trying to tell me. I kind of think that you are advising me in relation to your tank, not mine. Images can be deceptive but what size is the tank you posted above, 55-75 gallon? Mine is a little 20 gallon cube and requires different considerations.

BTW, Pretty tank. It will take a while but my tank will also end up plant heavy.

jaylach said:

Well good for you as to using under gravel filtration. I think it is superior to the built in sponge stuff filtration that came with my tank. I still use the built in filtration to move some water but consider my under gravel the real filtration system.

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If you have sand the real filtration system is the sand itself. 3 of my 4 tanks have black sand and all have simple sponge filters only to keep the water moving. All 4 have inert sand.

These 4 tanks are all still thriving with minimal maintenance - just haven't updated the thread because I lost interest (in the forum not the tanks )

Grumble, grumble! Even trying Amazon I seem to have no source for Hugo Kamishi Black Glass Gravel where I live.

Still waiting to see if Kamishi replies to my contact email. If I don't see anything in a couple of days I will contact again.

jaylach said:

Well good for you as to using under gravel filtration. I think it is superior to the built in sponge stuff filtration that came with my tank. I still use the built in filtration to move some water but consider my under gravel the real filtration system.

I'm really trying to understand what you are trying to say to me but don't seem to be getting your point.

OK, I want a black substrate so I can have a 'Goth Tank' but that does not matter as to what we are trying to discuss as the glass substrate could be many different colors.

Sigh, I'll do my best to explain what I think but don't know how well I will do...

I want a black substrate that is safe for corys or/and plecos which should be sand. With using under gravel filtration I can't really go sand. It seems that small glass beads are the best alternative. I guess that I could go sand but I'd have to have very well established stem plants to have the roots hold the sand in place, not even close as to being workable short time.

I just don't understand your view as to glass substrate not adding to the tank. It may not have any minerals but it would serve well as the main filtration. What better function for the substrate than to filter via bacteria colonies? Also, with the glass beads being finer and denser it SHOULD take a thinner layer to do the filtration job than normal gravel giving more actual water volume.

I just don't see how it is not a win win aspect.

I have no doubt that your arguments are meant to d o nothing but to help me but I just don't seem to get what you are trying to tell me. I kind of think that you are advising me in relation to your tank, not mine. Images can be deceptive but what size is the tank you posted above, 55-75 gallon? Mine is a little 20 gallon cube and requires different considerations.

BTW, Pretty tank. It will take a while but my tank will also end up plant heavy.

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My tank is 150g. What I'm saying is that if you can put natural river gravel in your tank then it gives back to the system. The river gravel will leach all the minerals both your plants and fish need to survive. If you put glass beads in your tank it gives nothing back. I like to always put things into my tank that gives something back. Looks are secondary, for me.

itiwhetu said:

My tank is 150g. What I'm saying is that if you can put natural river gravel in your tank then it gives back to the system. The river gravel will leach all the minerals both your plants and fish need to survive. If you put glass beads in your tank it gives nothing back. I like to always put things into my tank that gives something back. Looks are secondary, for me.

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Many years ago I actually went to a local clear water river with a bucket and collected real river gravel and all went well but I didn't have corys or plecos in that tank. All advice I've seen here in other threads advise a fine substrate for such beasties to avoid damage to barbels. Shoot, I have a creek right behind my apartments with a gravel base I could draw from but it seems that it would not be good for the desired bottom dwellers.

Considering that I use under gravel filtration sand is problematic. It seems that the Hugo Kamishi Black Glass Gravel would be fine enough for the fish without sifting through the slots in the filter plates. Also keep in mind that I would REALLY like a black substrate.

I just sent another contact email to Kamishi as advised through their "Find A dealer" function sine I come up with no sources. We shall see if they respond.

Shoot, I'm adaptable. If you can recommend a substrate that is cool with corys and plecos that is black I'm VERY open to suggestions.

jaylach said:

Many years ago I actually went to a local clear water river with a bucket and collected real river gravel and all went well but I didn't have corys or plecos in that tank. All advice I've seen here in other threads advise a fine substrate for such beasties to avoid damage to barbels. Shoot, I have a creek right behind my apartments with a gravel base I could draw from but it seems that it would not be good for the desired bottom dwellers.

Considering that I use under gravel filtration sand is problematic. It seems that the Hugo Kamishi Black Glass Gravel would be fine enough for the fish without sifting through the slots in the filter plates. Also keep in mind that I would REALLY like a black substrate.

I just sent another contact email to Kamishi as advised through their "Find A dealer" function sine I come up with no sources. We shall see if they respond.

Shoot, I'm adaptable. If you can recommend a substrate that is cool with corys and plecos that is black I'm VERY open to suggestions.

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I am afraid I don't buy into the Cory filter feeding thing. I have always kept cory's on a gravel base, I believe nitrates are the main problem with cory's. I am about to get some pygmy cory's for my Discus tank.

I also think, sand will cause you more problems than it is worth.

itiwhetu said:

I also think, sand will cause you more problems than it is worth.

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Agreed! I won't be going sand. I was considering using some 35 micron nylon sheets around the under gravel plates to keep the sand from sifting through but that also seems problematic as it would be hard to keep the nylon sheets clear.

jaylach said:

Agreed! I won't be going sand. I was considering using some 35 micron nylon sheets around the under gravel plates to keep the sand from sifting through but that also seems problematic as it would be hard to keep the nylon sheets clear.

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Good decision

itiwhetu said:

Good decision

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LOL! Even a blind squirrel gets an acorn now and then...

I AM still looking for the glass beads though.

Not looking good as to getting the HugoKamishi black beeds. I have had zero response through their contact system, not even an automated confirmation.

I still want to go with a black substrate but will likely end up with gravel. One factor in this is to save my live plants as they are in a half gallon pitcher. I'm changing the water every other day but need to get them back in the tank. The plants still seem OK except for one I got through Etsy that arrived in pretty bad condition being in just a moist and broken container with the leaves being wilted but now looks better than when received.

As to the tank it should now be pretty totally sterilized. I did three days of triple dosing with anti bacterial followed by a few hours of a strong bleach solution followed by a 50% water change to lighten the bleach load. That solution has been steeping for a couple of days now.

I could probably use the existing substrate but REALLY want black. Also, as I think the tank killer was actually a toxin, I think changing the substrate the safer way to go as it would be the most likely to hold on to anything bad.

Once I find my substrate I will totally break down the tank, scrub and do a totally new setup and fish-less cycle with plants included. I so much wish that I had an actual aquatics store here as I would request a few dead feeder golds to bury in the substrate so bacteria formations had a good food source. It would dramatically speed up the cycle time. This is something normally done with salt tanks but also works with fresh. LOL! That is an old school thing. I really don't know if it is still done.

Just figured that I'd update my tank status...

As said above I have sterilized the tank. I am now waiting for the new substrate that should show up in ~4 days. When it gets here I will totally empty the tank and start over with the new substrate.

I have to admit that I was a bit surprised that the tank has started to cycle as is with an obvious bacteria bloom. Since one of the things that showed when the tank was contaminated there was still a bacteria bloom that the contaminate killed making the tank totally clear. I just dumped the plants back in and figure that if the current bacteria bloom survives everything is cool and I can use the plants. If the current bacteria bloom dies off I figure there is still something wrong with a plant and will scrap them all.

The way that I see it it just does not matter if the tank dies again as there are no fish involved. Since I'm going to totally dump the tank and scrub when the new substrate gets here this is just a test on the plants. If I end up getting rid of the plants it is not a big deal as they are just a couple of anubias, a couple of java ferns, two small moss balls an one other that I can't remember the name. There were three other plants that I've already pitched; 2 smaller moss balls and a stem plant. The moss balls were covered with white filaments all over. The stem plant I had doubts of making it as soon as I got. I ordered it through Etsy and it arrived out of the planted pot in a broken sealed container. The plant was pretty much wilted and in bad shape. Right now it has no leaves at all so I pitched.

I DO have some questions... LOL! Of course I do!

1) If all stays good after adding back the original plants should I just clean the sponges from my built in filter or replace? The way I see it is that I seem to have successfully sterilized the tank which would include the sponges. Since I will be totally setting up the tank from scratch I would not wash the sponges in tank water but, rather, treated tap water.

2) Can anyone advise as to a decent on-line source of plants? For obvious reasons I don't want to get more plants from Petco and there is no other choice in my town.

3) Since I could not find fine gravel that I could get in my area (even on-line) and can't use sand due to under gravel filtration, I'm going with normal sized gravel. Since I've read many times here that corys and plecos need a finer substrate to thrive can any offer advice as to bottom feeders that will do well with gravel? Keep in mind that I run a rather low PH at ~6.1 and a water temperature of ~81F. Of course the water temperature could be adjusted and following fish picked to match the temperature.

Thanks for any input!

BTW, following is the new substrate I ordered. Not totally black as I wanted but pretty close. LOL! If the little bit of colored gravel bothers me I can always cover with black. A friend said that I could just go through the bag and remove the colored gravel... Ya, that would be a bunch of fun but......