Possibly switching from gravel to black sand for substrate.

As talked about in another thread I am in the early stages of totally re-doing my 20 gallon cube tank and am thinking of going from gravel to black sand for the substrate. The problem is that I insist on having under gravel filtration. Of course the sand would fall through the slots in the filter plates. While water would still move the sand sifting and filling the area below the plates would restrict the flow. Of course this would lessen that filtration efficiency. The 20 gallon tank also has a built in 93 GPH sponge filter.

So happens that I have a fair amount of 35 micron nylon sheeting that is sterile. If I were to wrap the filter plates in this 35 micron nylon it should be more than fine enough to keep the sand from sifting to under the filter plates while still allowing water to flow as the mesh is much finer than a pair of nylon pantyhose. Of course the water flow would be lessened by the nylon but I would think still workable as my air pumps are overkill for the tank as I'm using two plates with each having its own air riser powered by a whisper 40. I don't mean one Whisper 40 powering the risers but each riser having a Whisper 40.

Yes, I know that sand will still settle and restrict water flow but that is easily solved by 'stirring up' the sand while vacuuming while doing water changes so I don't consider that an issue.

Anyone see anything wrong with my thinking?

Oh, to add on to the above post...If I do go to a sand substrate with under gravel filtration should I still go with the average depth of the substrate being an average of three inches or, with sand being finer, would 2 inches be more realistic?

Actually black sand will make your tank looks very dark.
I tried it in the past but never really liked it.
I prefer a sunset yellow colour or something that is not too dark nor too bright/white.

You can check here for some ideas.

Lajos_Detari said:

Actually black sand will make your tank looks very dark.
I tried it in the past but never really liked it.
I prefer a sunset yellow colour or something that it not too dark nor too bright/white.

Click to expand...

I hear what you say but even though I don't practice I rather like the 'goth' look. Below is an image of my current tank. I think going black sand on the substrate would bring a very goth look which I would like.

Give honest feedback on what you think. Would the current setup look good made goth or not? Of course the decision is only mine but I'd appreciate input.. Also consider that in any case the back of the tank will be filled with stem plants.

Lajos_Detari said:

Actually black sand will make your tank looks very dark.
I tried it in the past but never really liked it.
I prefer a sunset yellow colour or something that is not too dark nor too bright/white.

You can check here for some ideas.

Biotope Aquarium – Everything about the biotope aquaria and underwater ecosystems

biotope-aquarium.info

Brazil Videos – Biotope Aquarium

biotope-aquarium.info

Venezuela underwater biotope Videos – Biotope Aquarium

biotope-aquarium.info

Click to expand...

I appreciate your input but cannot look at your links. I'm a computer geek and all three of your links fail due to my security finding them malicious. In other words they likely contain code to steal info or compromise a system. I have to trust my security setup or I may as well not bother.

Bearing in mind that sand usually messes up the UGF, you might be better using black micro gravel or something like Hugo Kamishi black glass substrate instead of sand. Marginally larger grain size so no real chance of clogging the UGF, you get the black colouring that you want and its easier to keep clean than sand too.


If you have a look on the link it allows you to find a supplier near you.

wasmewasntit said:

Bearing in mind that sand usually messes up the UGF, you might be better using black micro gravel or something like Hugo Kamishi black glass substrate instead of sand. Marginally larger grain size so no real chance of clogging the UGF, you get the black colouring that you want and its easier to keep clean than sand too.

Hugo Kamishi Black Glass Gravel | Hugo Kamishi

hugokamishi.com

If you have a look on the link it allows you to find a supplier near you.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the input.

I am fully aware of the problems with sand and under gravel filtration. That is why my question of using 35 micron nylon sheets would solve this issue. If the sand can't get through the nylon sheet it can't foul the under gravel filtration.

I know that you are fully aware of the issues of sand and UGF, cos you asked about this once before and I suggested using fine grade tulle to act as a barrier for the UGF....or perhaps muslin will work too, undyed fine cotton muslin would allow the sand to sit on top of it without causing an issue with the UGF

But the Kamishi glass is very very fine gravel, looks like sand but isn't sand. My 200 litre has a mix of Kamishi black glass and Kamishi natural riverbed sand. I have also used the Kamishi glass before in other aquariums....unlike the normal sized gravel, it won't hurt catfish, it is very easy to keep clean and adds a little bit of a shimmer...and best of all its dust free, which is ideal for use with UGF systems like yours.

wasmewasntit said:

I know that you are fully aware of the issues of sand and UGF, cos you asked about this once before and I suggested using fine grade tulle to act as a barrier for the UGF....or perhaps muslin will work too, undyed fine cotton muslin would allow the sand to sit on top of it without causing an issue with the UGF

But the Kamishi glass is very very fine gravel, looks like sand but isn't sand. My 200 litre has a mix of Kamishi black glass and Kamishi natural riverbed sand. I have also used the Kamishi glass before in other aquariums....unlike the normal sized gravel, it won't hurt catfish, it is very easy to keep clean and adds a little bit of a shimmer...and best of all its dust free, which is ideal for use with UGF systems like yours.

Click to expand...

Sorry to take so long to get back but I have a couple of questions... LOL! I always do.

Still I'm not getting input as to the 35 micron nylon sheets. To be honest, after thinking I think it could be problematic as it would be hard to keep the nylon clean. That said there are still questions...

1) You say 'Kamishi glass'. My past experience says that glass substrate is not good for corys or plecos as it tends to have sharp edges. Does the Kamishi glass avoid this? Your quoted post indicates that it does but I want to be sure.

2) If I go this route should I stay with an average substrate depth of 3 inches or, since the substrate would be finer, would an average of 2 inches work better.

3) Since I want to go live plants I can't see stuff like Anubias being any different but how about stem plants that would be directly planted in the substrate. Would there be anything that I would need to do different than if normal gravel such as planting pots?

Here is where I'm currently at. I ran triple doses of antibacterial for three days. Today I threw in 1.5 cups of bleach. After about an hour and a half I did a 50% water change and will let that stew for another day at least. Yes, I am sterilizing the tank. Live plants have been removed and soaked for a bit in a much milder bleach solution then totally rinsed and put in a separate container.

Once sterilization is finished I will totally drain the tank and scrub everything. This, of course, brings up another question... Can I save my sponge filters by doing a good cleaning and then soaking in de-chlorinated water or do I need to replace? Same question as to the ceramic rings in the built in filtration.

Last question... for now... I don't normally use carbon in my filtration but wonder if it might not be a good idea to add a carbon pack to the built in filtration when ready to cycle due to the extreme measures I have taken to sterilize the tank.

The Kamishi glass substrate is rolled glass, so no sharp edges, just tiny ball shaped grains, Kamishi themselves are one of the leading aquaric arts suppliers, they wouldn't design or sell anything that would harm fish

This is the full Kamishi website....it will not hurt your pooter to take a good look around it as it will answer most of your questions regarding planted aquariums and their product suitability etc


Kamishi can be a tad more expensive but then you do get what you pay for in relation to quality etc. My Cories have lived happily with Kamishi glass for several years without any health issues

wasmewasntit said:

The Kamishi glass substrate is rolled glass, so no sharp edges, just tiny ball shaped grains, Kamishi themselves are one of the leading aquaric arts suppliers, they wouldn't design or sell anything that would harm fish

This is the full Kamishi website....it will not hurt your pooter to take a good look around it as it will answer most of your questions regarding planted aquariums and their product suitability etc

Hugo Kamishi | Designer Aquarium Products

hugokamishi.com

Kamishi can be a tad more expensive but then you do get what you pay for in relation to quality etc. My Cories have lived happily with Kamishi glass for several years without any health issues

Click to expand...

Thanks a LOT for the info and I will check out the site. I don't really worry about my 'pooter' being hurt as I trust my security which is pretty extensive.

I sort of wonder what they will recommend to substrate thickness. While I don't really know I would think that substrate density would be more important than actual thickness.

I'm also not much concerned about cost. I'm retired and on a fixed income but it is high enough that I can put ~$300.00/month in my savings.

I think I've done about all I can as to sterilizing the tank so we shall see what we shall see.

If, by any chance, you don't know why I'm sterilizing the tank check the following thread.

I used the following through the Kamishi website using their contact email to ask questions. Here is what I sent.
--------------------------
Hi, hope you are having a perfect day!

I MAY be interested in some of your Kamishi glass substrate in black but
I have some questions.

1) Is it true that this substrate is fine but not small enough to foul
my under gravel filter plates?

2) Is it also true that the glass is tumbled to avoid sharp edges that
could harm fish such as plecos and corys?

3) With standard gravel I would go for an average thickness of three
inches. Would this also be true with the glass substrate or, with your
substrate being denser, would a thickness of 2 inches be more realistic?
My thought is that 20 pounds of normal gravel gives me 3 inches of
thickness but 20 pounds of your product would likely 2 inches of mayhaps
even less but the overall density of the substrate would remain the same
with 20 pounds of either. I'm asking this badly but boils down to if 20
pounds of your product would perform like 20 pounds of normal gravel.
This relates to a 20 gallon cube tank.

4) Would I be able to plant stem plants directly in the glass substrate
as I can with normal gravel?

5) If I am correct you are in the UK. Can you ship to the U.S.?

Thank you for any input that you can offer. I anxiously await your
response.
Jay

The company is based in Japan but they supply worldwide. If you actually click on the products featured on their website, they will give you your closest supplier to your home town anywhere in the entire world, most suppliers who stock Kamishi have mail order, so not always a long drive to get the items that you wish to purchase.

Oh and the reason that I mentioned the hurt pooter is that you made it extremely clear earlier in this thread that links had already caused you to be angry at people from foreign countries who had kindly given you various ideas and means to do as you are wanting.

Why add anything to your tank that gives nothing back, glass will add nothing to your tank. But if you add natural neutral gravel, it will add all sorts of minerals back into your system.

wasmewasntit said:

The company is based in Japan but they supply worldwide. If you actually click on the products featured on their website, they will give you your closest supplier to your home town anywhere in the entire world, most suppliers who stock Kamishi have mail order, so not always a long drive to get the items that you wish to purchase.

Oh and the reason that I mentioned the hurt pooter is that you made it extremely clear earlier in this thread that links had already caused you to be angry at people from foreign countries who had kindly given you various ideas and means to do as you are wanting.

Click to expand...

I was never angry with any of the links given. I just won't go to a site that my security says is compromised.

I clicked on products but got nothing specific. It was late so I will look again tomorrow when I am more aware. For insatnce I clicked under substrates under products and all I saw was a description of substrate. Like I said, I'll look again.

Still, said tongue in cheek, if they want my business they will answer my already submitted questions and lead me to where I need to go.