Discus are an endless money pit!

Rocky998 said:

Im not saying you cant have one but a fish species doesnt "need it"

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True but I think some benefit greatly from it, UV sterilizers are a great tool in our arsenal, especially when dealing with delicate fish or ones that are very sensitive to medications. "Batman"(my kids named him, he has a lair and hangs out in a cave and is black) is delicate in my opinion, I worked hard to have a gregarious, hand fed Black ghost, the sterilizer helps me keep him healthy.

Discus are too rich for my blood. I admire them but would not keep them. If, by some crazy chance, I won the lottery and had money to burn. I would do a discus tank and I would run a UV sterilizer on their tank because I think they would benefit from it and it would make my life a little easier in keeping them.

Now the SA Cichlids I keep, they give no flips, they are boss fish and brutes.

Rocky998 said:

Im not saying you cant have one but a fish species doesnt "need it"

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Perhaps a fish does not “need” it, but if it truly helps, it would be worth every penny. With fish that are sensitive or expensive, I think it is a step towards ensuring their health and giving them the best possible chance to living out their full lifespan.

Discus are the poster child for a very clean aquarium. Plants? Get algae,some detritus and want bright lights and ferts. Discus do not want that. They have those big eyes for seeing in dark waters...white sands in the aquarium with intense light 16" above their heads is not good for them.
I've done that. I grew them up and after they spawned a few times they stopped eating and died. My last try with them.
But I have seen people keep them even in 20 gallons breeder style, and those fish were THICK..red eyes and rushed up to the owner. Never forgot that.
Yes UV is a tool. But for Discus it's much more important. Funny thing is, ornate Goldfish are another that would benefit with UV. I am always amazed at how long finned Goldfish thrive in ponds (Sun/UV) with pond water and yet indoors got every fin disease and hemorrhaging..ugh,never again.
Back to Discus..people have to stop with the fantasy that those fish love the conventional plant or natural aquarium. They don't. Some people can claim an exception. Millions have bought Discus..so some just got lucky,but the odds? Breeders know.

George Farmer just put out a vid about rehoming his 8 Discus I think it was and two were not looking so well he said. They did not like his initial set up for them- the natural scaped aquarium. Discus do not like that. Even public aquariums have theirs do best in tranquil, dimly lit, aquariums. Same for hobbyists who have seen how the fish react to their environment.

I'm going to get my little guys this week, it is going to be interesting to see how they do, in my all-natural tank.

Rocks and plants to Discus are just obstacles.

Keeping Discus New Zealand Style

I don't have discus anymore. I had quite a few (~20 individuals at one time) between 1995 and 2005, only wilds, both haeckels (S. discus) and S. aequifasciata (greens and browns). Except for one pair shown in the second picture, which were purchased directly from Oliver Lucanus (yes, I travelled to his home in Canada to pick them up), all my fish were RESCUED (purchased one by one very cheap because they were dying) from local fish stores in Massachusetts and Rhode Island, and nurtured back in my home in Massachusetts. All came originally very skinny, dark, some swimming head down, and some with very bad cases of hole-in-the-head, and certainly with internal and gill parasites. I dewormed and nurtured them back to gorgeousness, but did lose a few; any I lost was shortly after bringing them in (the first months) as they were in that bad a shape. Didn't lost any after recovery, except for a single one that jumped out because I forgot a tank lid open overnight, and it must have gotten spooked.
I agree with some of the things said here, but not all:

- Better to keep them in bare bottom - Yes
- Better not to have them in planted or community tanks - absolutely correct. Substratum, plants and other fish makes too difficult to maintain good water quality. And most plants can't take the temperature.
- UV required - BS. I never had one, or felt I needed one.
- Lots of water changes required - Absolutely. Every other day.
- High temperature (mid-high 80's) - Absolutely.
- Get them big because they won't grow big in your tank - BS if you do it right (follow the yes's and No's above and below)
- I fed mostly earthworms (grown by me), frozen mysids, and frozen bloodworms (Piscine Energetics), + my own frozen recipe including some of above+ Spirulina and some veggies. I started using my own beefheart recipe; after some time I stopped using beefheart, and never missed it.
- At the time, blackworms became easily available (mail order) - best way to get parasites into one's precious tanks. Discus (and all fish) love them, but it is not worth it.
- Dark aquaria required - Not really, just not bright lights.
- Tannins added to water - Yes, it helps a lot, but it is not strictly necessary. I prepared my own water using Canadian peat moss bought by the bale, and magnolia tree leaves.
- Many of the commercially bred fish come with weak immune systems, parasites, and other problems - Absolutely yes. But there are also honest, capable and reputable breeders, the trick is finding them.

Below some of my fish. Unfortunately I lost most pictures. In 2003 I had to move cross country to Cincinnati, the home of liquid limestone water. I left all my discus (~20 then), some Uaru, and some tanks to Al Sabetta, then the administrator of SimplyDiscus. The idea was that he would keep them, enjoy and continue to breed them and that I would eventually get them back (or some descendants) when I was settled in. That never happened, so Al got a great deal then, but me too because I could not have thought of better hands than his. No money was ever exchanged and there was no expectation that it would have.
In some of the photos, remaining scars from HITH can still be seen, and some fish still look a bit skinny. However, they were healthy, and trust me, their improvement was remarkable. Amazing what good care can do to nearly dying fish!

I AGREE. I don't think I said they never grow. I said I have raised them from the size of a quarter american,to breeding size and they soon after a few spawnings became sick and died. I think I gave up since it had happened the same way once before and this was my best shot, a 100 gallon for one pair and plants and gravel.
Looking back and over all..yes you can buy large healthy Discus from a store or breeder and those will even act like they like sands- puffing at it to find food. But its all a fantasy as you learn that the hardiness wil be worn down eventually by substrates,rotting plant leaves..rocks with bio film...just not what they grew up in. Then after even a year or two,they start to die like flies one after the other.
The very best- pancake size and THICK bodys were a happy breeding pair in 50 gallons and no substrate, no plants real or artificial..just a slate ( in those days) and low wattage grow light that really made those big eyes beautiful red and same for the blue stripes.
What I tell people what they wish for isnt good for the fish long term. I still see people with half grown Discus on youtube in community tanks and no matter that you say those fish won't last 5-8 years like breeder fish,they just think of all the internet and books and photos of Discus in community tanks. Never knowing- they were large fish from the start!

Stan510 said:

I AGREE. I don't think I said they never grow. I said I have raised them from the size of a quarter american,to breeding size and they soon after a few spawnings became sick and died. I think I gave up since it had happened the same way once before and this was my best shot, a 100 gallon for one pair and plants and gravel.
Looking back and over all..yes you can buy large healthy Discus from a store or breeder and those will even act like they like sands- puffing at it to find food. But its all a fantasy as you learn that the hardiness wil be worn down eventually by substrates,rotting plant leaves..rocks with bio film...just not what they grew up in. Then after even a year or two,they start to die like flies one after the other.
The very best- pancake size and THICK bodys were a happy breeding pair in 50 gallons and no substrate, no plants real or artificial..just a slate ( in those days) and low wattage grow light that really made those big eyes beautiful red and same for the blue stripes.
What I tell people what they wish for isnt good for the fish long term. I still see people with half grown Discus on youtube in community tanks and no matter that you say those fish won't last 5-8 years like breeder fish,they just think of all the internet and books and photos of Discus in community tanks. Never knowing- they were large fish from the start!

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Are you saying that my 5 discus won't grow up in their 150-gallon tank and they are going to die prematurely

Chances are they won't last more than two years. With Discus too? You get the pecking order and in small groups in home aquariums? that is lethal to the slower growers. It's why breeder go to only one pair per aquarium. If two pair or more were better? Then they would do that! Money is the bottom line in best care. Breeders don't waste money buying conditions that will kill their fish. No other fish,no plants and rocks and substrates or stressing the fish cleaning aquariums with dirty gravels. Co2 and Discus? Truly bad. I've seen those fish sucking badly in planted tanks with CO2. I knew they weren't long for this world in there.
Virtually every single video by "Mr. Fish" of large Discus in sometimes huge aquariums? Were all just added already full grown. Probably a year later one was left judging by what I saw.

The problem with Discus is that the aquarium trade has screwed with their genetics. In New Zealand we are lucky enough to still have some old timers who know how to breed strong fish,unlike the rest of the world, who have all developed modern ways to make these fish survive

How large do these Discus grow?

The largest Discus I have seen were wild fish and no kidding,they had to have been at least 10" and almost perfect round. That was decades ago. I remember being in awe and telling the LFS owner that I never knew they could get so large. They also were not especially thick or colorful- just dinner plate size. Unlike the normal everyday wild or even hybrid Discus. The huge ones had a look like comparing Scalar to Altum Angels..or Angels from one specific river and with unique colors or shape.
I would guess largest Discus most hobbyist will ever raise might be 7"?..jumbos over that are raised perfectly in breeder tanks or vats in Asia.

itiwhetu said:

How large do these Discus grow?

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@Stan510 covered it pretty well.

We had a customer who came into the shop on a regular basis. Her name was Terri and she was a South American Indian from the Amazon. She was a lovely lady with a good sense of humour but she was really short (about 4ft tall). She wasn't a dwarf, they are just short people.

Anyway, she would come into the shop and look at the discus and other fish. She would tell us about when she was younger and how they used to go out fishing for discus and other bits n pieces. She had photos of wild caught discus that were for dinner, and the fish were a good 10 inches in diameter and close to an inch thick. They were massive fish and we don't see anything like them in aquariums. But in the wild they can get big.