Fish thrashing and staying at top of tank?

I have a Malawi tank, in my Malawi tank my OB is just staying at the top of the tank. Not gasping or anything just staying at the top looking out. Occasionally he will swim around and occasionally swim erratically and flick his tail. No other worrying signs. Should I be concerned?

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Ph - 7.6
Nitrate - 10

its being picked on and is trying to hide

Colin_T said:

its being picked on and is trying to hide

Click to expand...

At the very top of the tank?

AmyKieran said:

At the very top of the tank?

Click to expand...

If a fish feels insecure due to being bullied or attacked and they cannot access the usual hiding spots in the lower areas of the aquarium cos the bullies/attackers are guarding them or physically intimidating or stopping the fish, then the next best route of escape is up and out of the aquarium, so that fish will in certain circumstances stay at the top looking for a way out. They won't know or understand that there is a hood on there that prevents them escaping, its just the natural fight or flight kicking in.

wasmewasntit said:

If a fish feels insecure due to being bullied or attacked and they cannot access the usual hiding spots in the lower areas of the aquarium cos the bullies/attackers are guarding them or physically intimidating or stopping the fish, then the next best route of escape is up and out of the aquarium, so that fish will in certain circumstances stay at the top looking for a way out. They won't know or understand that there is a hood on there that prevents them escaping, its just the natural fight or flight kicking in.

Click to expand...

Ahh okay , in terms of fish keeping is there anything I should do about this?

AmyKieran said:

Ahh okay , in terms of fish keeping is there anything I should do about this?

Click to expand...

Try and watch the behaviour of all the fish over an extended period of time to identify the culprit(s).

If more than one culprit, add a few more hiding areas away from where the culprits usually congregate for the affected fish to escape to and feel secure.

These cichlids are notorious for being aggressive and often for no good reason, they are just wired that way. If only one fish is being exceptionally aggressive, the choices are quite limited...get it to another aquarium/rehome it or in some cases and if you have a big enough aquarium a divider can work. But since they are so naturally territorially aggressive, its often very hard to stop the behaviour whilst the offending fish are still in the aquarium and the only option is to remove either the bully/bullies or the victim permanently, once the bullies sense a weaker fish, they will forever go after it, stress it and potentially physically attack til it dies.

wasmewasntit said:

Try and watch the behaviour of all the fish over an extended period of time to identify the culprit(s).

If more than one culprit, add a few more hiding areas away from where the culprits usually congregate for the affected fish to escape to and feel secure.

These cichlids are notorious for being aggressive and often for no good reason, they are just wired that way. If only one fish is being exceptionally aggressive, the choices are quite limited...get it to another aquarium/rehome it or in some cases and if you have a big enough aquarium a divider can work. But since they are so naturally territorially aggressive, its often very hard to stop the behaviour whilst the offending fish are still in the aquarium and the only option is to remove either the bully/bullies or the victim permanently, once the bullies sense a weaker fish, they will forever go after it, stress it and potentially physically attack til it dies.

Click to expand...

When I’ve been observing it seems to be a group it escapes from. I’ve also heard that removing the bullies or ‘hyper dominant’ of the tank, another fish will just take its place as hyper dominant. It’s showing no sign of damage just a little bit erratic occasionally. When I woke up this morning and turned on the light, it was actually at the bottom of the tank at first. Then as a few mins went past, it went back to the top

wasmewasntit said:

Try and watch the behaviour of all the fish over an extended period of time to identify the culprit(s).

If more than one culprit, add a few more hiding areas away from where the culprits usually congregate for the affected fish to escape to and feel secure.

These cichlids are notorious for being aggressive and often for no good reason, they are just wired that way. If only one fish is being exceptionally aggressive, the choices are quite limited...get it to another aquarium/rehome it or in some cases and if you have a big enough aquarium a divider can work. But since they are so naturally territorially aggressive, its often very hard to stop the behaviour whilst the offending fish are still in the aquarium and the only option is to remove either the bully/bullies or the victim permanently, once the bullies sense a weaker fish, they will forever go after it, stress it and potentially physically attack til it dies.

Click to expand...

Also, im sorry to bother you but you have been very helpful to me with posts and also I believe me and you have advice to another user. Can I ask, I have 50 Malawi in my tank of varying size from 2 inch to 5 inch approx. I feed a variety of frozen food. I’m currently feeding 2 cubes every 2 days but I feel like that’s not much for the number of fish. Would you reccomend feeding more or just keeping it at that?

AmyKieran said:

When I’ve been observing it seems to be a group it escapes from. I’ve also heard that removing the bullies or ‘hyper dominant’ of the tank, another fish will just take its place as hyper dominant. It’s showing no sign of damage just a little bit erratic occasionally. When I woke up this morning and turned on the light, it was actually at the bottom of the tank at first. Then as a few mins went past, it went back to the top

Click to expand...

If there is a group of fish that are overly dominant and collectively pressuring one fish, then it might be best to remove the target rather than the offenders. Reason being they will continue their behaviour against this one fish until the fish gets so stressed out, stops feeding and interacting altogether and eventually the offenders will up the ante if they sense that they are further weakening that fish. There doesn't have to be a specific reason why this one fish is getting bullied, it could be territorial it could be that the fish has a hidden health issue that naturally makes it an easy target.

The offenders have not gone to the physically attacking stage yet but I would not rule it out further down the line. I would be inclined to remove/rehome the victim before anything physical happens, especially if at feeding time the fish is being blocked or put off in any way from getting food. The victim in this will not be left alone now that the offenders have sensed a weakness with it, you'll probably never find out why this one fish has been chosen as a target. Of course there will always be a danger that removing the target will ensure another fish will replace it for attack or intimidation, in the same way that removing the offenders can be replaced with the next in line.

It is a difficult situation to deal with, even moreso when the fish are so naturally aggressive. There isn't an easy choice to make, however if the victim is showing signs of severe stress or not eating enough or a healthy issue becomes evident/visual, then you might be advised to remove the fish from the offenders grasp.

AmyKieran said:

Also, im sorry to bother you but you have been very helpful to me with posts and also I believe me and you have advice to another user. Can I ask, I have 50 Malawi in my tank of varying size from 2 inch to 5 inch approx. I feed a variety of frozen food. I’m currently feeding 2 cubes every 2 days but I feel like that’s not much for the number of fish. Would you reccomend feeding more or just keeping it at that?

Click to expand...

I stand to be corrected here but that doesn't sound enough or high enough frequency food...and that could potentially increase any aggressive behaviours

I would also not feed frozen as their staple diet, as a treat once or twice a week yes, but not their only food...but that is just my own thoughts on it since frozen foods don't always have the full range of essential minerals, vitamins etc and sometimes it can cause health issues if the fish are not getting the essential health needs from their food. I would be inclined to get some high end pellet or flake foods that are specifically geared towards your fish...but again I stand to be corrected on that.

wasmewasntit said:

I stand to be corrected here but that doesn't sound enough or high enough frequency food...and that could potentially increase any aggressive behaviours

I would also not feed frozen as their staple diet, as a treat once or twice a week yes, but not their only food...but that is just my own thoughts on it since frozen foods don't always have the full range of essential minerals, vitamins etc and sometimes it can cause health issues if the fish are not getting the essential health needs from their food. I would be inclined to get some high end pellet or flake foods that are specifically geared towards your fish...but again I stand to be corrected on that.

Click to expand...

I actually have a pellet but I feed about 6 different types of frozen food to vary diet. Spinach, brine shrimp, cichlid food etc. do you think I should vary this throughout the week with pellet aswell? I use the nt labs cichlid green 33 pellet. This may be the underlining cause for the aggression. Do you think I should increase this to alternating 3-4 cubes with pellet?

AmyKieran said:

I actually have a pellet but I feed about 6 different types of frozen food to vary diet. Spinach, brine shrimp, cichlid food etc. do you think I should vary this throughout the week with pellet aswell? I use the nt labs cichlid green 33 pellet. This may be the underlining cause for the aggression. Do you think I should increase this to alternating 3-4 cubes with pellet?

Click to expand...

I would be inclined to use pellet more often and frozen as a treat less often. Not having enough of or not getting the right food/essentials can cause an increase in aggression due to just being hungry, not saying it is the reason in this specific case but it can happen sometimes.

Experiment a bit over the next week or so with different feed schedules/types...the pellets are usually formulated to give the maximum essentials that the fish need to keep them healthy and to assist in their growth. Frozen so often is missing those essentials by virtue of how it is processed to get rid of anything unwanted that could affect health in a bad way. I would do some mix and match over a couple of weeks or so and see what, if any, changes that brings about in their behaviour.

Another side of this is that fish tend to beg for food...even when full...which brings them to the surface as soon as its lights on time, some fish are better and more forceful at begging than others.

I agree with Wasmewasntit.
I feed half a frozen cube to 30 fish sized 2-3". Maybe one cube if I had 50 fish. Given that a 4" fish is double the length, and width and depth of a 2" fish I would use 5 or 6 cubes for your fish.
Mine get frozen once a week - live, flakes or bugbites on the other days.
When you said you feed every other day did you mean they have nothing on the days inbetween, or that they have an alternative food?

Naughts said:

I agree with Wasmewasntit.
I feed half a frozen cube to 30 fish sized 2-3". Maybe one cube if I had 50 fish. Given that a 4" fish is double the length, and width and depth of a 2" fish I would use 5 or 6 cubes for your fish.
Mine get frozen once a week - live, flakes or bugbites on the other days.
When you said you feed every other day did you mean they have nothing on the days inbetween, or that they have an alternative food?

Click to expand...

No they have nothing in between like this

Monday - 2 frozen cubes on morning and feed catfish pellet, algae flake and zucchini on night

Tuesday - nothing

Wednesday - 2 frozen cubes of something else on morning and feed catfish pellet, algae flake and zucchini on night

And so on

Naughts said:

I agree with Wasmewasntit.
I feed half a frozen cube to 30 fish sized 2-3". Maybe one cube if I had 50 fish. Given that a 4" fish is double the length, and width and depth of a 2" fish I would use 5 or 6 cubes for your fish.
Mine get frozen once a week - live, flakes or bugbites on the other days.
When you said you feed every other day did you mean they have nothing on the days inbetween, or that they have an alternative food?

Click to expand...

And I find it difficult to portion pellet, how much pellet should I be feeding?