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pH, KH & GH

Lynnzer

Lynnzer

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I'm using the NT Labs Pro-f test kit to check my water.
I'm fine with the Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate but get stuck understanding the rest of the things.
This is what each of the test show.
KH turns green after 19 drops
GH turns blue after 20 drops
pH turns a very light blue with the dosage required. This colur isn't shown on the chart though, but perhaps it's somewhere between yellow (7) and green (8). I've done tjhis particular test 3 times just to confirm the odd colour and it's the same on each.
So, the question is, how does this set of results relate to water parameters found on the likes of seriouslyfish.com

I'm thinking of adding neon green rasboras to my setup as a single species tank. so need to know what I'll have to do to keep them in prime condition
 
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First, what do the drops for GH and KH indicate with the NT Lab test? I assume one drop is one degree (1 dH) but can you confirm this. If it is, the 20 drops indicates 20 dH which is fairly hard water. The KH is also high which would be expected. And the pH would be above 7, which also seems the case.

One suggestion would be to confirm the GH, pH and KH with your municipal water authority. Check their website as this data may be posted. The GH/KH is not likely to change much in an aquarium, and if the levels are as high as assumed the pH will not tend to alter either.

SF provides the GH as either dH or ppm (parts per million), or both. These two units (dH and ppm) are used interchangeably in the hobby. You can convert from one to the other by using 17.9, which is the equivalent of 1 dH. Multiplying the dH number by 17.9 will give the equivalent ppm, and dividing the ppm number by 17.9 will give the equivalent dH. I prefer using dH simply because the numbers are smaller and easier to keep straight.

The rasbora Microdevario kubotai you link has a profile on SF here:

Microdevario kubotai (Microrasbora kubotai) — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com www.seriouslyfish.com

The GH range is 18-179 ppm [this equates as 1 to 10 dH using the formula above, which is on the soft side), and the pH recommended is 6.0 to 7.0, which is slightly acidic. If the GH/KH/pH results for your water are as above, you should have softer water (the GH). GH is the most crucial of the three for fish.
 
Lynnzer said:
I'm using the NT Labs Pro-f test kit to check my water.
I'm fine with the Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate but get stuck understanding the rest of the things.
This is what each of the test show.
KH turns green after 19 drops
GH turns blue after 20 drops
pH turns a very light blue with the dosage required. This colur isn't shown on the chart though, but perhaps it's somewhere between yellow (7) and green (8). I've done tjhis particular test 3 times just to confirm the odd colour and it's the same on each.
So, the question is, how does this set of results relate to water parameters found on the likes of seriouslyfish.com

I'm thinking of adding neon green rasboras to my setup as a single species tank. so need to know what I'll have to do to keep them in prime condition
Click to expand...
When fish are locally sourced rather than ordering online they are often raised and bred in similar water conditions, acclimating them should be no trouble if bought within a local radius meaning these fish will have never saw there so called natural conditions , I always try to keep them to there so called natural conditions but the chances are the fish are 12th generation bred in local waters
 
If 20 drops for GH to turn blue, then you are having GH 20, which mean your water is super hard.
(If my understanding is correct.) Read the link below

Aquarium Test Kit - Hardness Test from NT Labs

KH, also known as “total alkalinity” or “carbonate hardness”, is a measure of the buffering capacity of the water in your aquarium. General Hardness is a measure of the total amount of minerals dissolved in the water.
www.ntlabs.co.uk www.ntlabs.co.uk

Neon Green Rasboras are not suitable for your tank as they require soft water for their long term health.
Based on this website below, they require GH of 1-10 but it will be better to aim for GH around 3-7 so as not to be at the extreme end.

Microdevario kubotai (Microrasbora kubotai) — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com www.seriouslyfish.com

Probably you can consider Livebearer such as Guppies, Platies, Mollies and African fish for your high GH and depending on your tank size.

For pH test, check these(depending on whether you are using broad or narrow pH tester:

Aquarium Test Kits - Broad pH Test from NT Labs

The new Broad Range pH Test is for testing water within the pH range of 6 – 9. This pH test now covers the pH range more likely observed in your aquarium and also offers improved precision with 0.5 unit determination.
www.ntlabs.co.uk www.ntlabs.co.uk

Aquarium Test Kit - Narrow pH Test from NT Labs

For aquarium fish with specific pH requirements or for general tropical community aquaria requiring a neutral pH, the pH 6–7.6 Test provides quick and accurate pH measurement. It also offers precision with 0.2 unit determination.
www.ntlabs.co.uk www.ntlabs.co.uk
 
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Byron said:
First, what do the drops for GH and KH indicate with the NT Lab test? I assume one drop is one degree (1 dH) but can you confirm this. If it is, the 20 drops indicates 20 dH which is fairly hard water. The KH is also high which would be expected. And the pH would be above 7, which also seems the case.

One suggestion would be to confirm the GH, pH and KH with your municipal water authority. Check their website as this data may be posted. The GH/KH is not likely to change much in an aquarium, and if the levels are as high as assumed the pH will not tend to alter either.

SF provides the GH as either dH or ppm (parts per million), or both. These two units (dH and ppm) are used interchangeably in the hobby. You can convert from one to the other by using 17.9, which is the equivalent of 1 dH. Multiplying the dH number by 17.9 will give the equivalent ppm, and dividing the ppm number by 17.9 will give the equivalent dH. I prefer using dH simply because the numbers are smaller and easier to keep straight.

The rasbora Microdevario kubotai you link has a profile on SF here:

Microdevario kubotai (Microrasbora kubotai) — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com www.seriouslyfish.com

The GH range is 18-179 ppm [this equates as 1 to 10 dH using the formula above, which is on the soft side), and the pH recommended is 6.0 to 7.0, which is slightly acidic. If the GH/KH/pH results for your water are as above, you should have softer water (the GH). GH is the most crucial of the three for fish.
Click to expand...
Your assumptions are all fine. So, it looks like I have to do a re-think on fish or do something about the water.
I really set my heart on the neon green rasbora albeit I had originally thought about the chilli rasboras.
My tank is this one, 30 ltrs. I really can't go for the fish recommended by Lajos, as they are just too big.
I'm really thinking that I go for the neon greens and fill with bottled water instead. I'll have to check out the chemical makeup of some to see if it's a good idea.
Take a look at the Asda 5ltr bottle and see if it would be OK if you don't mind
 
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What GH/ KH/ pH does your water providers website report in the water quality data?
 
Naughts said:
What GH/ KH/ pH does your water providers website report in the water quality data?
Click to expand...
Aghhhh, very hard see the report

I do have a bag of sphagnum moss peat that I use now and then to soften things up though. Might give this a go in the tank 1st and check the result over a few days to see if it makes much difference.
 
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Lynnzer said:
Aghhhh, very hard see the report

I do have a bag of peat that I use now and then to soften things up though. Might give this a go in the tank 1st and check the result over a few days to see if it makes much difference.
Click to expand...

They use mg/l which is the same as our ppm, just so you know. The "average" GH is 175 ppm (= 10 dH) which is half what your GH test gave. GH can change depending upon the water source they use.

Lynnzer said:
Take a look at the Asda 5ltr bottle and see if it would be OK if you don't mind
Click to expand...

"Mineral water" can contain minerals you don't want, same as hard tap water. Obviously there will be no chlorine or similar, but that is not the problem with the tap water, it is the GH (hard minerals dissolved in the water). RO (reverse osmosis) and distilled water can be used. Rainwater if it is otherwise safe can be used. With any of these, you need to keep in mind that water changes will require the water to be prepared outside the tank (if it is being adjusted). Of course, using straight RO solves this problem. RO may be expensive (never had to use it fortunately) or there are RO units.
 
Agree. It is true that organic matter like peat, dried leaves, even wood to some extent, will work to "soften" the water and lower the pH. But this is dependent upon the initial |GH/KH/pH entirely. The higher the GH/KH, the more buffering capacity it has with the pH, "preventing" the lowering. If one were to keep adding acid, the buffering capacity might be reached, but then the pH would crash and fish rarely if ever survive this. The only way to decrease the natural GH/KH/pH is throough dilution of the water with "pure" water such as RO or distilled.

If you can reely on the 10 dH this is a better situation than the 20 dH. And diluting the 10 dH by say half RO would reduce this proportionally to 5 dH.
 
Byron said:
They use mg/l which is the same as our ppm, just so you know. The "average" GH is 175 ppm (= 10 dH) which is half what your GH test gave. GH can change depending upon the water source they use.
Click to expand...

The figures in the water company links are confusing.

They give several numbers including
mg/l CaCO3 = 438.41 (aka ppm)
German degrees = 24.90 (aka dH)
These two numbers represent the same level, just in different units.

Then they say
total hardness = 175.36.
However, using an on-line converter, 438.41 mg/l calcium carbonate (ppm) = 24.563 dH = 175.55 mg/l calcium. That 175.36 is actually mg/l calcium, a unit favoured by UK water companies.

So the water company figures do mean very hard water - 25 dH and 440 ppm to round the numbers.



They also list mg/l calcium as 99.0 but that seems to be the actual amount of calcium not hardness expressed as calcium just to make things more confusing.

Edit to add, this is the hardness converter I used

Hardness of water, Cactus2000

Online conversion of the hardness of water into a number of international units.
www.cactus2000.de
 
Confusing indeed. I used their "total hardness" number of 175 mg/l without going further, never thinking this would not agree with the dH etc. 175 ppm = 9.7 dH (I rounded up to 10 dH). Need to sort this out in order to decide how to proceed, but you may be better using your own test numbers.
 
I have the same water company so I checked my data.

There is a page where you type in your address, and it first lists all the works being carried out then below all that is this

hardness.jpg

Downloading the full report gives the document as in Lynnzer's link. This has the hardness table, then brewer's information, then the water quality report table. This last table used to include calcium, the actual amount of calcium, but that's now been moved into the hardness table. Magnesium has been moved into the brewer's information table along with another entry for calcium.
Using the table as in my image is much less confusing.
 
Naughts said:
:( You will need RO or distilled water for the rasbora. Peat would not reduce hard water with high KH.
Or how about male endlers? They would like your tap water.

Poecilia wingei – Endler’s Livebearer — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com www.seriouslyfish.com
Click to expand...

I fully agree.
Actually male Endlers are very beautiful fish and suitable for small tank.
Endlers, similar to Guppies will swim at all levels to find food.

Just to share my experience...
Based on my experience with Neon Green Rasboras, they only have one colour green which can be boring.
I almost wanted to give them away due to their lack of colours. LOL.
You have to use a black background if you keep them.
I'm using a blue background and their green colour can't stand up at all.
They are very fast swimmer and they like to swim between top and middle level.

If given a choice, I will choose Endlers over Neon Green Rasboras.

By the way, Chili Rasboras are nicer than the Neon Green Rasboras.
The reddish colour of Chili Rasboras are more striking.

If you really want to keep soft water fish, the easiest way is to just mix your tap water with distilled water or reverse osmosis(RO) water to bring down the GH.(as suggested by @Naughts and @Byron)
Take for example, if you mix 50% tap and 50% distilled water, the GH will probably be reduced by half.
Some people will buy the big bottles of distilled water which are having special discounts/promotions to reduce the cost.
Alternatively, you can install a RO filter in your house.
 
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