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Tank issues crushing my enthusiasm - help needed

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Vlowman

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Hi all,

I’m finding the maintenance of my planted tank quite a dispiriting slog – so I want to seek the advice of those in the know. My water is hard (12dKh & 15dGh)) and high in pH (8.5), as well as testing high for phosphates (can’t remember exactly how high).

It’s a 125l tank, with 6 danios, 4 platys, 3 snails and 11 amano shrimp. I have amazon swords, bacopa, anubias, java fern, cryptocoryne costata, Vallisneria torta and sagittaria sabulata. I did have water sprite too but got rid of it this morning. I put fresh root tabs in every three months and dose tropica premium and 5ml of seachem potassium every other day. I do 50% water change every 1-2 weeks and my lights, which are just the standard LED lights that came with the tank, are on for about 6 hours a day.

So it’s been planted for about 6 months and these are my problems:

  • The two times I’ve added fresh root tabs, the slight disruption to the gravel seems to cause a massive ammonia spike that I have had to take care of over the week that followed.
  • Though the plants initially grew well and looked quite healthy, they are increasingly unhealthy looking – the bacopa looks wilted, the amazon sword leaves are often thin and ‘crispy’, the water sprite was largely light brown rather than green – despite all the fertilizer they get
  • Black algae, what was initially restricted to one or two anubias leaves, seems to be slowly spreading out – so the bacopa, sagittaria and some amazon sword leaves are turning black on the edges (though they weren’t looking that great even before the algae started on them)
I’m quite new to the hobby and got into it mainly because my daughter nagged us for fish. But now I’m left doing all the work, and it’s getting pretty tedious putting all the effort of regular water changes and cleaning in, only to watch the plants struggling, algae taking over and the once nice looking tank starting to look pretty raggedy.

I’d really appreciate some helpful advice. (Foolishly I didn’t take pictures before I pruned loads of the worst looking plants this morning – but this is what the tank looks like.)

Many thanks.

IMG_0915.jpg

IMG_0916.jpg

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How long are the tank lights on for? Being on too long is one cause of the algae. Floating plants can also help as they cut down the light reaching the lower plants. Most of the plants you have can be grown in low light.
Water sprite can be used as a floating plant. Mine never did well planted, but it's fine as a floater.
 
Essjay said:
How long are the tank lights on for? Being on too long is one cause of the algae. Floating plants can also help as they cut down the light reaching the lower plants. Most of the plants you have can be grown in low light.
Water sprite can be used as a floating plant. Mine never did well planted, but it's fine as a floater.
Click to expand...
They said that they’re on for 6 hours a day

On another not it might be the light hitting places that don’t want to much light. Because I’m my tank I had algae problems on my Ludwiga and bacopa side but the moss was fine. What I did was use étape on the light for places that didn’t need as much so that I could limit it. It worked for me.

I think that the fact that there is an ammonia spike when you disturb the gravel means that there are bubbles under the gravel that pop up when you disturbed it. What I would do is every now and then run a popsicle stick through the gravel and try to disturb bubbles. Once the bubbles have all been drive out, do a test and if there’s anything bad do a water change. Also, the extra ammonia released might have caused the nutrients to cause an algae outbreak
 
Missed the bit about lighting time :blush: That length shouldn't cause algae.


Do the lights have anything written on them - a K number in particular? If not, you say the lights came with the tank, can you tell us what make the tank is so we can see if the manufacturer's website gives the information.
 
@Essjay I believe it is a 10w LED strip that comes with the Fluval Roma 125. Whilst some people have told me that stock lights are never enough, I thought they'd be ok, having chosen low-light plants specifically. Growth doesn't seem to be an issue - just looking a bit raggedy as well as the algae issue.
 
The only tanks I can find currently listed have bluetooth lights with programmable lighting effects - is yours this kind or a simple on and off type? Do you have a cylindrical tube similar to fluorescent tubes, or is it flat?

The reason I'm asking is that some tubes have a high K rating which means a lot of blue light which encourages algae. And with programmable LEDs, they can be set with too much blue and not enough red.
 
That sounds like too much micro nutrient fertilizer to me. How often and large of water changes do you do? I believe micro nutrient toxicity is possible but not common. I think black beard algae is a sign of micro overdosing (is this the algae you have?). Maybe try dosing once a week rather than every other day. At the very least, you'll waste less fertilizer. You have a low light tank with no CO2 and slow growing plants. The nutrient requirements are lower than a high light, CO2 injected tank. You're also not dosing nitrogen and phosphorus, and your stocking is low. What are the nitrate measurements for the tank? Plants need nitrate to grow. If this is part of the problem, I would recommend adding more fish or getting a fertilizer that doses nitrogen and phosphorus.

Life underwater is difficult for plants. The aquatic life is inherently CO2-limited. In the atmosphere, CO2 concentration is about 400 ppm (this is increasing btw). Natural bodies of water that host aquatic plants have CO2 in the 10-20 ppm range, 20 to 40 times less than the atmosphere. Water in equilibrium with the atmosphere (e.g. tap, and the water in your tank) has about 2-3 ppm CO2, ~200 times less than the atmosphere. This is the primary limiter for growth in a planted aquarium without CO2 injection. Terrestrial plants can take really heavy fertilization regimes, partially because they have access to as much CO2 as they want. With aquatic plants you have to be a little more careful balancing fertilizer, light, and CO2. Increasing just one of these three will not give you good growth.

All the plants you listed can be grown in a tank like this, but I suggest dosing micros less often and adding a source of nitrogen and phosphorus.
 
The "problem" is the light/nutrient balance, which is what other members have referred to though with somewhat varying remedies. But this is the root cause.

First on the light, what is the spectrum? @Essjay mentioned this, and it is crucial in the balance. Duration cannot make up for intensity or spectrum issues. I don't think the intensity is an issue here, from the photos. Six hours of light if balanced with nutrients should be good. But we need to know the spectrum...look for a number with a "K" suffix, or a number for CRI (colour rendering index).

On the fertilizers, Tropica Premium should be fine, but not so much of it. Once a week, after the water change, will supplement nutrients. Any more and you are feeding algae. And you have a form of black brush algae, I battled this for years but not in the last six after finally getting the balance right.

I would stop the Potassium; while excess potassium is much less problematic than would be excess iron or copper, it is included in the Tropica at sufficient levels to balance. There is no point in adding something that is unnecessary, as these things do impact fish.

The root tabs once every three months should be fine for the plants like swords. I would not use them elsewhere, the comprehensive liquid will be sufficient. However, what brand are they? Some release nutrients into the water column which feeds algae. Seachem's Flourish Tabs do not do this, so the nutrients remain in the substrate until used by plant roots. This makes quite a difference.

I would not add phosphate, there is more than sufficient in fish foods to provide all the phosphate plants need, and this too is an algae inducer. Same holds for nitrate. Plants use ammonia/ammonium as their source of nitrogen, not nitrate, and some plants will turn to nitrate if ammonia/ammonium is insufficient and provided the light and other nutrients (including CO2) are available to balance. This is not likely to be the case, especially with the CO2.

Natural CO2 occurs from respiration of fish, plants and bacteria, and from decomposition of organics primarily in the substrate. I realize the fish load here is minimal, and that obviously reduces the nitrogen and CO2, but I have had no issues with this provided things were generally balanced. You have hard water in London (according to other threads) and Vallisneria thrives in such water (it is native to the African rift lakes for example) because it can use bicarbonates from hard water as a source of carbon, unlike some plants (mosses for example cannot). So here again I do not think CO2 is the main issue. I worked out my tank lighting to 7 hours daily in balance with natural CO2.

Hope this helps.
 
A pH of 8.5 is just far too high for a successful freshwater aquarium. Freshwater tanks need to have a pH around seven
 
Essjay said:
The only tanks I can find currently listed have bluetooth lights with programmable lighting effects - is yours this kind or a simple on and off type? Do you have a cylindrical tube similar to fluorescent tubes, or is it flat?

The reason I'm asking is that some tubes have a high K rating which means a lot of blue light which encourages algae. And with programmable LEDs, they can be set with too much blue and not enough red.
Click to expand...
Thanks - yes, it's the programmable blutooth strip. I've recently turned down the blue light to be on the same level as the red and green, which white being maxed out - based on advice received elsewhere.
 
itiwhetu said:
A pH of 8.5 is just far too high for a successful freshwater aquarium. Freshwater tanks need to have a pH around seven
Click to expand...
Really? I thought as long as the fish I have are ok in higher pHs that it'd be ok.... What other problems does the pH cause?
 
Byron said:
The "problem" is the light/nutrient balance, which is what other members have referred to though with somewhat varying remedies. But this is the root cause.

First on the light, what is the spectrum? @Essjay mentioned this, and it is crucial in the balance. Duration cannot make up for intensity or spectrum issues. I don't think the intensity is an issue here, from the photos. Six hours of light if balanced with nutrients should be good. But we need to know the spectrum...look for a number with a "K" suffix, or a number for CRI (colour rendering index).

On the fertilizers, Tropica Premium should be fine, but not so much of it. Once a week, after the water change, will supplement nutrients. Any more and you are feeding algae. And you have a form of black brush algae, I battled this for years but not in the last six after finally getting the balance right.

I would stop the Potassium; while excess potassium is much less problematic than would be excess iron or copper, it is included in the Tropica at sufficient levels to balance. There is no point in adding something that is unnecessary, as these things do impact fish.

The root tabs once every three months should be fine for the plants like swords. I would not use them elsewhere, the comprehensive liquid will be sufficient. However, what brand are they? Some release nutrients into the water column which feeds algae. Seachem's Flourish Tabs do not do this, so the nutrients remain in the substrate until used by plant roots. This makes quite a difference.

I would not add phosphate, there is more than sufficient in fish foods to provide all the phosphate plants need, and this too is an algae inducer. Same holds for nitrate. Plants use ammonia/ammonium as their source of nitrogen, not nitrate, and some plants will turn to nitrate if ammonia/ammonium is insufficient and provided the light and other nutrients (including CO2) are available to balance. This is not likely to be the case, especially with the CO2.

Natural CO2 occurs from respiration of fish, plants and bacteria, and from decomposition of organics primarily in the substrate. I realize the fish load here is minimal, and that obviously reduces the nitrogen and CO2, but I have had no issues with this provided things were generally balanced. You have hard water in London (according to other threads) and Vallisneria thrives in such water (it is native to the African rift lakes for example) because it can use bicarbonates from hard water as a source of carbon, unlike some plants (mosses for example cannot). So here again I do not think CO2 is the main issue. I worked out my tank lighting to 7 hours daily in balance with natural CO2.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the very comprehensive reply.

I'm not sure my light strip has a K number - it's a 10w LED strip that can be programmed via blutooth and I've just turned down the blue and green light down to where the red light level was, with white max out:

20220315_100428400_iOS.png


I'll take your advice and reduce the fert dosing to once a week with no additional potassium and see how I get on with that.

Tabs wise I started with Seachem, then thought the Tropica one was a better deal but another commenter elsewhere proved that these were responsible for my ammonia spikes when planting them (testing water with nothing in it except two freshly dissolved Tropica capsules). I've just taken someone else's advice and used ADA bottom plus instead.
 
Now my aquarium only has living moss balls and silicone planting but it still gets some unwanted greenery every so often

The aquarium, a 200 litre Diversa, came with a screamingly bright white light...which is now in the cupboard. I replaced it with a 78cm long Nicrew RGB MCR. Not programmable but, tbh, doesn't need to be since I have the remote control on the table beside me. I can also alter the intensity of the lighting from seriously bright to cloudy day.

My light goes on when I get up in the morning to the darkest setting of blue/cloudy day dimmed, thus not scaring anyone. Around 30 minutes later I turn to dark cerise/cloudy day dimmed and they know its food time. Once fed the light goes to white/cloudy day dimmed. The lighting is then dropped to the dark blue for the last 45 minutes before lights out. On time is around 5am and off time is around 2pm.

I use a double canned Aquael Turbo 2000 internal filter. The lower can has the noodles with Superfish Phos matting that I cut into small 2cm triangles. The can fitted above has Superfish Ammonia and Superfish Carbon matting, again cut into 2cm triangles with a layer of floss on the top. Thus making a floating bed filtration set up. I also run a 24w GKM UV 12 hours on/12 hours off.

This "recipe" of lighting and filtration has evolved from alot of trial and error but it seems to work as I no longer suffer from any major algae issues and any that do appear are dealt with by the fish.

Finding the right balance, regardless of the use of real planting or not, takes time and patience. Everything in fishkeeping has that elusive "sweet spot" and you aren't going to find it straight away. Another part of what I ended up doing, due to lousy water quality from the tap (water board water is heavy on phosphates which is always an open invite to algae), I have used bottled water instead. Granted there is expense involved but I don't use the big branded water, the empties are collected by the binmen on recycling day. The pH is stable and the filter is there to clean the water and not stabilise it by the use of stuff to bring down pH etc

I am not saying that my way would suit your aquarium since every aquarium is different but don't be disillusioned by trying to find the perfect balance if it doesn't happen quickly. Fishkeeping can be hard, its not a pastime that is easy peasy. It takes alot of time, patience, expense and trial and error.

Keep at it, you'll get there...I promise you that you will find that elusive sweet spot, be patient and it will come :)
 
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