Treatment resistant fin rot in guppies. Potential med?

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:

Oh wow, I'd never realised that plants might reduce effectiveness! I can easily remove the plants from the tank they're in. They have been in a tank on their own for a while now, since I certainly didn't want to use meds while they were living with more sensitive fish like the pygmy cories and otos.

I'll look into that website, thank you!

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Sorry, I edited my first post.
On second thought, probably the plants may not reduce the anti-biotic effectiveness.

But I know some fast growing plants like Anacharis Elodea, Hornworts will definitely absorb medications like Malachite green and Formalin which are used to kill parasites. The plants will also die.

Nowadays I dont keep plants in my fish only tanks as it will reduce the effectiveness of some parasites medications like Seachem Paraguard which contain Malachite Green.
I only keep plants in my shrimps tanks which I can't use medication.

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:

Ouch... I'm afraid that I really can't afford this Much as I love them, I can't justify £50 from my budget for eight guppies... on top of all the money I've spent on meds already. I was only working part time while caring for elderly parents this past year anyway, but since my 84 year old broke his hip in October, I've not been able to do many shifts at all, so relying on carer's allowance. While still having a dog and parrots to take care of financially...

I hate thinking of the cost, if there's a chance it could help them. I'd go into thousands of debt if my dog or bird needed it (they're insured though, thankfully), and they're not "just fish" to me. I think the amount of money I've spent on meds already hopefully shows that... but since we live in the real world, and the cost does need to be considered...

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I agree. Fish keeping is not cheap especially the medications.
In fact the medications are more expensive than most fish.

wasmewasntit said:

The reason I invested in a GKM is that over time you could theoretically spend way more on meds and other water additives etc and not gain anything by those meds etc and still be at square one after spending more than the cost of the GKM. So by investing in a decent and proven UV like the GKM, its in the aquarium 24/7, it runs every night, the bulb lasts 12-18 months and costs around 20 quid to replace.....longterm it costs less than filling a medication cabinet (and I am on disability benefits, so also on a very limited budget).

I hate using meds so would rather invest in the GKM and prevent a torn fin turning into something nasty...

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Oh I'm definitely not disagreeing! It makes complete sense that it could prevent problems and be way more cost-effective long term, while being much better for the fish! I just really don't have it in the budget for right now It would need to be a long term plan for me, especially with the three tanks I currently have. I am planning to reduce that down to two tanks, but at the moment, money is too tight.

I've been racking my brain though, and it occurred to me that I could start selling some of my pymy cories. I did sell a group of seven to someone not long ago, and they've bred so well that the tank is verging on being overstocked as it is. I could sell some of the pygmies to pay for the guppy treatment, whether that ends up being meds or a UV steriliser...

I have a Cory breeding like rabbits issue...Bronze and Peppered.....thankfully I have natures own contraception though.....a BNCECM (aka Bristlenosed Cory Egg Cruise Missile) that scoffs them before they stick to the glass

It's a good plan to make a bit of extra cash from the fish if you are able to do so. Personally I would go with the GKM since you can use it in multiple aquariums whenever you get the slightest hint of trouble. I'm afraid I cannot stand the use of meds especially since most fish have been overmedicated massively tween being born/hatching and ending up in an LFS

Lajos_Detari said:

I agree. Fish keeping is not cheap especially the medications.
In fact the medications are more expensive than most fish.

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Totally! I've spent way more on meds than the few quid the guppies cost. But they're my pets, and I'm responsible for their lives. And when I think about it, I've spent thousands more on my dog than she cost to buy too So the cost to "is it worth spending more?" budget isn't logical at all, it comes down to whether it's feasible, and the animal's quality of life and the chances of the treatment's success, to my mind.

But I've been throwing money at these guppies for a year now without success, so I'm hoping against hope that someone knows of something that will knock this out, so I'm not just trying every med on the market randomly, or so I don't go broke trying to save eight guppies without success...

Some additional info.
Whenever you use an anti biotic, make sure that you treat a full course or even for extended period.
If not, when the bacteria returns, they will become immune to your medication.

That's why I suggested the GKM. You can get the 3w version and they are around the 30 quid mark, maybe less. Not so easy to get hold of as the 9w and 24w but they are available, just not in great numbers. Perfectly adequate for a 60 litre.

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:

Totally! I've spent way more on meds than the few quid the guppies cost. But they're my pets, and I'm responsible for their lives. And when I think about it, I've spent thousands more on my dog than she cost to buy too So the cost to "is it worth spending more?" budget isn't logical at all, it comes down to whether it's feasible, and the animal's quality of life and the chances of the treatment's success, to my mind.

But I've been throwing money at these guppies for a year now without success, so I'm hoping against hope that someone knows of something that will knock this out, so I'm not just trying every med on the market randomly, or so I don't go broke trying to save eight guppies without success...

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Keeping dog will be even more expensive.
I told my friend that I will keep fish when I am still working.
When I retire, probably I won't be keeping fish anymore.
The cost is high from the medications, fish food, water bill, electricity bill(for those with high power filters and lightings), etc.

£32.11 for the mini 3w GKM

They are quite rare but I believe Rocket will order one for you if asked to do so. They have done special orders for me more than once.

By the way, I agree with @wasmewasntit that UV sterilizer is very useful to kill most harmful bacteria.
I had heard from others about the benefits of using it especially for those struggling with bacteria infections.

I really can't follow this due to lack of sleep and everyone throwing their 2 cents worth in.

A UV steriliser will not make any difference to bacteria already in or on the fish. UV sterilisers on kill things that pass through the UV light in the steriliser unit. They do nothing to the rest of the microscopic organisms in the tank.

If you want to use anti-biotics, do it in a bare glass tank so the medication works on the fish, and is not wasted killing bacteria in the gravel, filter and plants.

Malachite Green treats external protozoan parasites and does nothing to bacteria.

Methylene Blue kills bacteria and fungus.
Acriflavine kills most microscopic organisms.
Formaldehdye kills most microscopic organisms.

If you think this is a problem, take one of the fish that has the problem to a fish vet and pay them to take samples and necropsy the fish. The fish will be killed but the vet should be able to identify which bacteria is causing the problem and provide a suitable medication (anti-biotic) for that bacteria.

wasmewasntit said:

I have a Cory breeding like rabbits issue...Bronze and Peppered.....thankfully I have natures own contraception though.....a BNCECM (aka Bristlenosed Cory Egg Cruise Missile) that scoffs them before they stick to the glass

It's a good plan to make a bit of extra cash from the fish if you are able to do so. Personally I would go with the GKM since you can use it in multiple aquariums whenever you get the slightest hint of trouble. I'm afraid I cannot stand the use of meds especially since most fish have been overmedicated massively tween being born/hatching and ending up in an LFS

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LOL @ the Bristlenosed Cory Egg Missile!

When my bronzes spawned again last month, there were so many eggs everywhere... on three sides of the tank, on the amazon sword leaves; I was determined to leave them and let nature take it's course. Whether that was them being eaten, or the fry raising themselves in the tank, the way my pygmy cory do in theirs, and one bronze cory did when I obviously missed that egg batch, and a baby appeared later! But I've raised batches before, and I know it involves some time and work that I just didn't have the time nor inclination for, while caring for my dad and keeping on top of the routine animal care.

But I kept half an eye on the eggs. Some got eaten, but a lot didn't. Then while making dinner the night before they were due to hatch, saw a bronze cory munching on a batch of eggs! I couldn't see that and do nothing, not when they were so close to hatching. So I rescued the remaining eggs, lol. Have 6 survivors now, a month old. So will be looking for new homes for those ones too once they're big enough

The pygmies don't need any extra rearing really, since the parents already eat tiny food. Thriving on baby brine shrimp, live microworms and the smallest bug bites right now.

Pygmy tank when the guppies were still in there with them, and the water was a more mid-range GH. Have since softened it further with a mix of tap and rainwater.




I started off with a batch of seven, and there's easily 35-40 in there now, plus however many fry. Impossible to headcount with so much plant, but I keep a close eye on water parameters, and 70% weekly water change has been enough to keep nitrates low.

I had two juvenile Peppered, too young to sex them. They went into one of my old 60l.

When I moved everyone to the new aquarium I moved 10 Peppered from that aquarium......this is my horde in the new 200l



The filter on the left is a double can Aquael Turbo 2000 and the 24w GKM is in the back right corner, across the back is also an air curtain too. Only had this setup for a couple of weeks.

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:

Started when I got this male, and @emeraldking saw pics of him and taught me about the ribbon tail gene, which gives the tail a more ragged, uneven looking edge.

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I believe we've discussed both ribbon and swallow. For what you meant is not the ribbon gene but the swallow gene.
When the swallow gene starts to become active will be at a later stage. So, in the beginning it won't be visible. While growing up (earliest as a juvenile and later), the tail shape starts to change. Then the ragged shape becomes more clear. That's normal. But this particular male has got a deformed body from what I can see from those pictures. And that doesn't look good.
Tailwise, there's nothing wrong with the tail. That's not finrot.

emeraldking said:

I believe we've discussed both ribbon and swallow. For what you meant is not the ribbon gene but the swallow gene.
When the swallow gene starts to become active will be at a later stage. So, in the beginning it won't be visible. While growing up (earliest as a juvenile and later), the tail shape starts to change. Then the ragged shape becomes more clear. That's normal. But this particular male has got a deformed body from what I can see from those pictures. And that doesn't look good.
Tailwise, there's nothing wrong with the tail. That's not finrot.

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emeraldking said:

I believe we've discussed both ribbon and swallow. For what you meant is not the ribbon gene but the swallow gene.
When the swallow gene starts to become active will be at a later stage. So, in the beginning it won't be visible. While growing up (earliest as a juvenile and later), the tail shape starts to change. Then the ragged shape becomes more clear. That's normal. But this particular male has got a deformed body from what I can see from those pictures. And that doesn't look good.
Tailwise, there's nothing wrong with the tail. That's not finrot.

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It's not fin rot?? What about with the other males? Because their tails don't stay the same ragged shape, it gets worse over time

The yellow snakeskin male is deformed now, yes. I bought him as an adult in mid-2020, so he's at least two years old now. Can they get deformed like that through aging? Because he wasn't deformed like that when I bought him of course, wouldn't have bought him if he was.

If it isn't fin rot, what do think might be going on with them? Because something is wrong, and I can't figure out what it is