Treatment resistant fin rot in guppies. Potential med?

AdoraBelle Dearheart

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Have been dealing with very slow moving fin rot (I assume it's fin rot, have tried everything to rule other things out) for more than a year now. Has only affected my male guppies, not any short-finned fish.

Started when I got this male, and @emeraldking saw pics of him and taught me about the ribbon tail gene, which gives the tail a more ragged, uneven looking edge.
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This photo was taken in July 2020, soon after I got him. Now, I'm wondering whether he had the early stages of fin rot.

He's still alive today, but really not looking good. Photo taken today;
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But I also had fish like this female in my colonies;

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Who definitely did not have fin rot, so I assume was a proper ribbon tail? What do you think, @emeraldking ? She maintained that distinctive shape to her tail for her entire life. So I knew I had uneven edged fin genetics in my bloodlines, and was slow to recognise that there was a problem, unfortunately.

Sadly, because I had a male only tank, including him before I knew it was fin rot, I now have several males who are affected to different degrees. Have also lost several. They can live with minimal damage for months, or like him, for more than a year! Or it can progress relatively quickly, eating away at their tails. Had to euthanise one yesterday, because he was staying on the bottom breathing hard, his tail almost completely gone. I hate that I think of this as the doomed to die tank now (they're no longer with the pygmy cories, or any other livestock). These are the males I kept when I stopped breeding livebearers, my favourites, and the adults I'd bought to produce the fry, so I'm attached to these individual fish, and has been breaking my heart to see them slowly lose their tails, then having to euthanise when it's become severe. Sometimes the edges get worn away, or look as though they've had chunks taken out of them, and sometimes they split into ribbons.

Hate having to euthanise, but when I left one to pass naturally, it took days in which he stayed on the bottom of the tank gasping. Euthanising was better than letting them suffer, but it's also very hard on me. They would be such beautiful fish without this horrible thing destroying their tails, and eventually killing them :-(
Here are pics of the others, all taken today;
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I have tried everything I could think of to try to heal these fish. Spent a small fortune on different medications at different times, done daily large water changes, kept up with increased water changes every few days, and I'm on top of tank maintenance and water parameters. Tanks are long established and heavily planted, lightly stocked and over filtered 60 L tank, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrates rarely get above 10ppm. These guys until fairly recently were also living with my pygmy corydora colony, who have been breeding non-stop for the last year. Pygmies show no signs of any problems, and are happy enough with the water quality that they never stop spawning, with the fry raising themselves in the tank. It's not a water quality/maintenance issue.

I'm so frustrated and upset, because it often feels as though they're just doomed. I've used eSHa 2000, eSHa gdex, eSHa ndx, with no improvement. Even did a very extended course of the eSHa 2000, as the medication suggests for difficult to treat problems. Tried MB too.

Most recently I've tried Pimafix and Melafix at the same time. Did nothing but leave an oily sheen on the surface of the water.

Today I saw mention of a medication I've never heard of before, called Waterlife Myaxin

Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this medication? I've already spent a lot of money on meds, and this feels sorta fruitless to spend another £10-11 and put them through yet another round of medication, when nothing seems to be touching it. Feeling like throwing good money after after bad, when I'm only on a carers income. But if there's a decent chance it could help, I'll definitely be willing to get it! It hurts my heart to see them like this, and feel so powerless to help them!

Or if anyone has any other suggestions, I'd really welcome any input at all!
 
Sorry, forgot to mention -we are limited in the meds we can get in the UK, we can't get the antibiotic type meds that are available in places like the US, antibiotic treatment only available through vets offices.
 
@TwoTankAmin Hello! I've heard that you're very knowledgeable when it comes to diseases (along with other topics, of course!) so I'd really appreciate any thoughts you might have! Along with @Naughts , @Colin_T , @DoubleDutch , any anyone else who has any ideas at all! I'm truly out of ideas myself, except for trying this new medication as a last ditch effort.
 
It could be fin nipping or fin rot caused by a bacterial infection. However, if it is fin rot, then the bacteria are probably drug resistant now.

Waterlife Myxazin is unlikely to help as it contains Malachite Green (used to treat external protozoan infections) and Acriflavine, which is a disinfectant that kills most microscopic organisms.

You could try salt if you haven't used it yet. You can move the fish into a separate tank and up the level of salt to 3 or 4 heaped tablespoons per 20litres of water. Keep the salt there for 3-4 weeks and see if it helps.
 
have you tried aquarium salt?
i use colin_t's recipe
are you sure it is fin rot and not nipping or new growth?
my baby guppies grow like that

It could be fin nipping or fin rot caused by a bacterial infection. However, if it is fin rot, then the bacteria are probably drug resistant now.

Waterlife Myxazin is unlikely to help as it contains Malachite Green (used to treat external protozoan infections) and Acriflavine, which is a disinfectant that kills most microscopic organisms.

You could try salt if you haven't used it yet. You can move the fish into a separate tank and up the level of salt to 3 or 4 heaped tablespoons per 20litres of water. Keep the salt there for 3-4 weeks and see if it helps.

Sorry, I forgot to mention in the OP that I'd tried salt treatment. Especially being guppies, it was the second thing I tried after just doing daily water changes and tank cleanings, wiping glass etc. Also tried salt treatment, full dose, two more times for extended periods, nothing :-( I really have tried everything, and at the end of my tether.

You really don't think Myxazin could help at all? I got my hopes up because I read it might help with fin rot.

Have never spotted any fin nipping, they're a very peaceful group of males really. The odd bit of chasing, but nothing serious, plenty of plant cover, and I've spent hours observing the tank since it's in my bedroom. Even if there were some nipping happening, for it to affect all of them? To the point of them dying? Also doesn't account for the way some are splitting, rather than looking gnawed on, like the red boy up there. His tail is in ribbons right from the outer edge, splitting down towards his body.

Older photos to show more, most of these boys have passed away now :-(
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The one at the top above the food disc is the one I have to euthanise the other day. This is what I mean about chunks missing from the tails, his was like a heart shape cut out of the centre of his tail, which I'd think would be very unusual for a nipping problem.
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Please please have more ideas and advice! I really don't know what else I can try with these guys, nothing works!
 
Have you tried this?

Not used myself since I don't use meds for my fish but it seems to have decent reviews and it is avalable in the UK (Amazon, eBay and LFS) for around £4 per 100ml

 
Have you tried this?

Not used myself since I don't use meds for my fish but it seems to have decent reviews and it is avalable in the UK (Amazon, eBay and LFS) for around £4 per 100ml


Gotta admit, I haven't tried that one! I generally don't like to medicate my fish either, besides worming them, but when water changes and salt didn't help, I didn't know what else I could do but try meds. eSHa has worked really well for minor issues before, without being a danger to cories, inverts or plants, but it's not touched this thing with my guppies. Also tried MB of course. Then also buying pimafix and melafix and getting my hopes up... I never wanted to be that fishkeeper with a cupboard full of half-used medications! Makes me feel like I'm failing and doing something wrong, but I know that I maintain the tanks well, that they're not aggressive with each other - and I've seen aggressive guppies before - one I nick-named diablo because he was a holy terror who had to be separated, and couldn't live in a male only tank! He needed to be with females, or he would be a nightmare, lol. I was relieved when he and his siblings were old enough to go to the store...

I didn't think to try the King British, since their food doesn't have the greatest reputation, but perhaps the medication is better? @Colin_T @Essjay and @TwoTankAmin , what do you think of the two meds mentioned? Try one first then the other after a break to let them destress? Is the active ingredient in either (King British treatment is 2-Phenoxyethanol 5.66% w/w) more likely to help with a possibly resistant bacteria?

There's an Interpet anti-fin rot treatment too, but doesn't show the active ingredient(s) anywhere and has some very poor reviews claiming it killed their fish.
 
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Failing all of that, and anything is worth trying at this stage, have you tried using UV?

Old wives tales aside, I have used them and actually am using one in my new 200 litre aquarium, a GKM 24w, I have found that although fish do not live normally in sterile water, mine seem alot calmer and so far in all the years that I have used GKM's of various wattage, the fish have remained completely disease/illness free. I have never had fin rot or ICH or any of the usual suspects when fish get sick, and it can't all be down to weekly water changes and gravel hoovering, the UV has to have some imput there somewhere surely.

When starting out using a GKM I leave it on 24/7 for the first 7 days and then only on at night. It seems to work, the fish are healthy and breeding like rabbits, the water chemistry is stable....worth a try perhaps, who knows, but if you're running out of ideas then maybe it is worth a try.
 
Oh, the other thing I tried and forgot to mention is adding almond leaves and alder cones. Always have some in my tanks, but I also tried adding so many to the guppy tank that it was practically blackwater. Fins still didn't improve :(
Failing all of that, and anything is worth trying at this stage, have you tried using UV?

I haven't! I don't really know much about them, and heard that they're expensive. I'd only be able to afford a cheaper one, but it's also only a 60L tank. Do you think this one might work? Or is cheaping out a bad idea with a steraliser?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002NLO9YW/?tag=

Also just want to say thank you so much for responding! I appreciate it so much, it helps to have other hobbyists input, I've been feeling really alone in struggling with this, and kind of ashamed that I've failed to fix it. My pygmy cory tank is thriving. Constantly spawning, always seeing new fry of various sizes, otocinclus happy and healthy - all three tanks well planted and water stable, only requiring their routine weekly maintenance, no other signs of illness or stress, and I'm currently raising my third surprise spawn of bronze cory fry from the third tank...

Other than dealing with camallanus worms when I first started the hobby and didn't realise how often livebearers come with a worm burden, and having one fish survive losing most of her tail torn off when she got caught in the filter as I removed it (salt treatment worked for her secondary fungal infection), I haven't had other issues with poor fish health, and I try very hard to keep them happy and healthy. So this is really frustrating and heart-breaking. That cobra marked fish in the third OP photo is one of my favourites, and his tail is going pretty rapidly... :-(

My other favourite is the deep red with purple highlights boy
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He's the one with the most tail left, but I can see that it's affected and going :-(
(red boy lower centre-left)
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Can you read this website and consider which antibiotic to use?

Look for one which commonly infect most fish.
 
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I have the 24w version of this....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000S5JMWY/?tag=

They are beautiful fish and its sad that they are ailing like this

The one thing the UV might do is arrest the issue rather than cure it...so the fish get no worse and can maybe heal a little, they might not get their full tails back but sterile water could potentially stop the damage from continuing or spreading
 
I have the 24w version of this....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000S5JMWY/?tag=

They are beautiful fish and its sad that they are ailing like this

The one thing the UV might do is arrest the issue rather than cure it...so the fish get no worse and can maybe heal a little, they might not get their full tails back but sterile water could potentially stop the damage from continuing or spreading

Ouch... I'm afraid that I really can't afford this :-( Much as I love them, I can't justify £50 from my budget for eight guppies... on top of all the money I've spent on meds already. I was only working part time while caring for elderly parents this past year anyway, but since my 84 year old dad broke his hip in October, I've not been able to do many shifts at all, so relying on carer's allowance. While still having a dog and parrots to take care of financially...

I hate thinking of the cost, if there's a chance it could help them. I'd go into thousands of debt if my dog or bird needed it (they're insured though, thankfully), and they're not "just fish" to me. I think the amount of money I've spent on meds already hopefully shows that... but since we live in the real world, the cost does need to be considered... :(
 
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Can you read this website and consider which antibiotic to use?

You may need to figure out whether the bacteria is a gram negative or gram positive type for greater effectiveness.
If not, look for one which can cover a broad type of bacteria.

As Colin suggested, it'll be good to treat them in a separate tank.
In my opinion, sometimes plants can reduce medication effectiveness as plants may absorb some of the medications.
Also, your tank may have something that promote the growth of this bacteria that cause the fins rot.

Oh wow, I'd never realised that plants might reduce effectiveness! I can easily remove the plants from the tank they're in. They have been in a tank on their own for a while now, since I certainly didn't want to use meds while they were living with more sensitive fish like the pygmy cories and otos.

I'll look into that website, thank you!
 
The reason I invested in a GKM is that over time you could theoretically spend way more on meds and other water additives etc and not gain anything by those meds etc and still be at square one after spending more than the cost of the GKM. So by investing in a decent and proven UV like the GKM, its in the aquarium 24/7, it runs every night, the bulb lasts 12-18 months and costs around 20 quid to replace.....longterm it costs less than filling a medication cabinet (and I am on disability benefits, so also on a very limited budget).

I hate using meds so would rather invest in the GKM and prevent a torn fin turning into something nasty...
 

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