Tap water test results

OldTimeFisher said:

Thank you once again @Byron. I have been doing so much research and a lot of it is contradictory and becomes very confusing. I will stick to your tried and true methods. I just finished tearing down the reef display tank and will start tearing down the sump tomorrow. Shop vacs are a wonderful piece of equipment lol. I had 3 fish left (a spot foxtail, a chevron tang and a clown fish). My wife took them this afternoon to a nearby fish store and they gave us a $100 dollar store credit. Can't beat that!!
Heck, I didn't pay that much for all 3 of them 14 years ago lol.
Thanks again! I'm sure there will be more questions for you as things progress.

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Ask anytime.

I was on a chat with a couple of my cousins in England on Monday, and one of them made the point that the internet has much to answer for in terms of misinformation and the way the world is moving. In this hobby alone the volume of completely misleading and erroneous "information" on so many sites boggles the mind. Fifty years ago we learned from reading books, and the process of getting published meant that the books were reliable, and based upon scientific knowledge, some of which may have subsequently been determined to be incorrect but it still wasn't "made up." Now days, any fool can set up a web site and the majority immediately assumes the individual is an expert. Some are, but too many are not. Just like fish store advice--we have to know the knowledge level of the source.

@Byron, out of curiosity, do you see any Nitrate levels in your planted tank and if so at what levels do you typically experience?

OldTimeFisher said:

@Byron, out of curiosity, do you see any Nitrate levels in your planted tank and if so at what levels do you typically experience?

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I use the API liquid tests, and the nitrate test has ranges as opposed to specific numbers. The first is 0 to 5 ppm, the second 5 to 10 ppm, and so on. Over a period of 10 years my tanks (I had 8 running in a dedicated fish room before I moved in May 2019) always tested in the 0 to 5 ppm range. I've no idea if the more specific level was 0, or 1, or 5 ppm, but it was never above this range so it remained very low, possibly zero. I tested every week prior to the W/C for several months, then I went to once a month, then once in three months, then no further testing as it was obvious the tanks were established and my maintenance working.

I had/have zero nitrate in the source water, so any nitrate was/is generated from the biological system, but as I said was so low it could never be considered problematic. I always have plants in an aquarium, even if solely floating, and with these taking up the ammonia so rapidly and fully, and given that I never overstocked or overfed, and did 60-75% water changes every week, there really was no chance of nitrate becoming an issue. I had to downsize to smaller tanks, and have three running now, since my move.

I was thinking that your nitrates were going to be low as I am sure mine will be very low to 0 ppm also given that there is no nitrates in my source water. I believe that we both have very similar water parameters in regards to ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. As mentioned in this thread, mine consistently are 0 ppm on all 3.

What percent water changed do you presently do?
Also, how deep is your sand bed and do you vacuum it?

OldTimeFisher said:

I was thinking that your nitrates were going to be low as I am sure mine will be very low to 0 ppm also given that there is no nitrates in my source water. I believe that we both have very similar water parameters in regards to ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. As mentioned in this thread, mine consistently are 0 ppm on all 3.

What percent water changed do you presently do?
Also, how deep is your sand bed and do you vacuum it?

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After I moved and downsized, I kept up the 70% (basically) water changes weekly, until a year ago. Serious health issues, surgery, cancer treatments all impacted by ability to even get out of bed sporadically, so I did as best as I could. Then this past June they increased the soda ash to raise the pH, and I cut back on volume a bit, I try to do no more than 40-50% now to avoid possible pH-related issues. Everything seems to be continuing as before so far as I can tell.

The sand is not deep, about 1 to 2 inches, probably 1.5 if spread evenly over the tank. I never dig into it, unless I am forced to move a chunk of wood or something. I don't touch it in the cory tank, they do the housekeeping for me. I run the Python over the open areas in the 29g which houses my pygmy cory fry and other "nano" upper fish just to keep the substrate cleaner for the cories as they are rather delicate.

Byron said:

After I moved and downsized, I kept up the 70% (basically) water changes weekly, until a year ago. Serious health issues, surgery, cancer treatments all impacted by ability to even get out of bed sporadically, so I did as best as I could. Then this past June they increased the soda ash to raise the pH, and I cut back on volume a bit, I try to do no more than 40-50% now to avoid possible pH-related issues. Everything seems to be continuing as before so far as I can tell.

The sand is not deep, about 1 to 2 inches, probably 1.5 if spread evenly over the tank. I never dig into it, unless I am forced to move a chunk of wood or something. I don't touch it in the cory tank, they do the housekeeping for me. I run the Python over the open areas in the 29g which houses my pygmy cory fry and other "nano" upper fish just to keep the substrate cleaner for the cories as they are rather delicate.

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I'm sorry to hear about your health issues Byron.
I also have some serious health issues which required me to retire earlier then I wanted to and I am now on total disability. On the plus side I now have plenty of free time to devote to my fish hobby and my wine hobby.

I'm getting closer to my goal of getting my tank re-setup into freshwater though. Today I finished tearing down the 90g display tank and the 55g sump. Now my wife and I will repaint the living room and then I can get the tank set back up.
In the mean time I'm gather all new equipment for a fresh start at it. My wife just bought me a Fluval FX4 canister filter for my birthday and I getting ready to buy the Fluval Plant 3.0 led lighting system.

Do you have a glass cover on top your aquarium(s)?

OldTimeFisher said:

I'm sorry to hear about your health issues Byron.
I also have some serious health issues which required me to retire earlier then I wanted to and I am now on total disability. On the plus side I now have plenty of free time to devote to my fish hobby and my wine hobby.

I'm getting closer to my goal of getting my tank re-setup into freshwater though. Today I finished tearing down the 90g display tank and the 55g sump. Now my wife and I will repaint the living room and then I can get the tank set back up.
In the mean time I'm gather all new equipment for a fresh start at it. My wife just bought me a Fluval FX4 canister filter for my birthday and I getting ready to buy the Fluval Plant 3.0 led lighting system.

Do you have a glass cover on top your aquarium(s)?

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I have a cover on all fish tanks, I would never not have this. Some of the smaller tanks have a hood with the light fixture, but my 40g now and formerly the 70g, 90g and 115g all have/had glass cover sets.

@Byron
I will also have a glass cover on this tank.
I forgot to ask you, you mentioned in a previous post on this thread about the Bolivian Ram. What are your thoughts on the Blue Electric Ram?
It appears that the needs of the Blue Electric Ram are the same as the Bolivian Ram.

The electric blue ram needs the same as the ram not the Bolivian ram. It is a colour morph of the ram, Mikrogeophagus ramirezi, and it's needs are the same as every other strain of that species - soft acidic water, low nitrate and a temperature in the high 20's C.


Bolivian rams, M. altispinosus, need cooler water than rams (mid 20's C) and can tolerate a wider range of hardness.

@Byron, is this the same play sand that you use?

OldTimeFisher said:

@Byron, is this the same play sand that you use?

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The brand, yes. They produce two tones of play sand (assume they still do), the buff "normal" sand which is pictured in the photo (I assume), and a quite dark grey sand which is what I was able to get locally. There is no difference with respect to being safe in terms of roughness and being inert. Home Depot and Lowe's carry this brand (in whichever colour tone), maybe other retailers do too. Just make sure it is the play sand, not one of their other industrial sands. Photo below is the dry dark grey sand in a bucket (it does appear lighter in the aquarium under daylight spectrum lighting).

Thank you @Byron. My Home Depot carries the tan color or buff. It is like the one pictured. I am not opposed to either of the colors. Just wanted to make sure that this was the correct sand.
What would also like your thoughts on the Blue Electric Ram? Given my water parameters if you don’t mind.

OldTimeFisher said:

What would also like your thoughts on the Blue Electric Ram? Given my water parameters if you don’t mind.

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This is a derived variety of the wild species Mikrogeophagus ramirezi. A marine biologist some years ago told me that the varieties are most likely to live well in water that is basically the same as that in which they were hatched/raised. I have read similar advice from others. Now, this is referring to the GH and pH primarily [will come to temperature momentarily]. Wild caught fish must have very soft and acidic water or they are more likely to develop various issues, and are very unlikely to live a normal (or beyond) lifespan (which is 4-5 years). But the varieties seem to have more tolerance of harder and more basic pH water, at least to some degree, but apparently this is influenced by the water in which they were raised.

Temperature is a big issue with this species. As @Essjay mentioned previously, they must have warmth, in the range of 82-86F (28-30C). This applies to wild caught natural species fish and all varieties. The problem then turns to tankmates; not all "tropical" fish can manage with such high temperatures permanently. Summer heat waves are one thing, and usually tolerable, but not a permanent high temperature. And there is no meaningful day/night temperature variation in the habitat waters (Linke & Staeck, 1994) so this is even more crucial. One set of readings taken at 10:00 in the morning of an overcast and "relatively cool" day when the air temperature was 31C showed a water temperature of 28.5 C. On clear days the air temperature reaches 40C in the shade. The dry landscape holds heat, affecting the water.

The temperature would suggest smaller tanks, as filling large tanks with fish suited to such warmth is not easy. Paracheirodon axelrodi and P. simulans do very well here [but certainly not their close relation P. innesi], and another characin is Petitella bleheri. Corydoras are out of the question in this warmth, but I believe some of the loricariids would work, but I would want to check species data.

The other ram, M. altispinosus, manages in a more "normal" temperature range, provided it is not below 76F/24C.

Byron said:

This is a derived variety of the wild species Mikrogeophagus ramirezi. A marine biologist some years ago told me that the varieties are most likely to live well in water that is basically the same as that in which they were hatched/raised. I have read similar advice from others. Now, this is referring to the GH and pH primarily [will come to temperature momentarily]. Wild caught fish must have very soft and acidic water or they are more likely to develop various issues, and are very unlikely to live a normal (or beyond) lifespan (which is 4-5 years). But the varieties seem to have more tolerance of harder and more basic pH water, at least to some degree, but apparently this is influenced by the water in which they were raised.

Temperature is a big issue with this species. As @Essjay mentioned previously, they must have warmth, in the range of 82-86F (28-30C). This applies to wild caught natural species fish and all varieties. The problem then turns to tankmates; not all "tropical" fish can manage with such high temperatures permanently. Summer heat waves are one thing, and usually tolerable, but not a permanent high temperature. And there is no meaningful day/night temperature variation in the habitat waters (Linke & Staeck, 1994) so this is even more crucial. One set of readings taken at 10:00 in the morning of an overcast and "relatively cool" day when the air temperature was 31C showed a water temperature of 28.5 C. On clear days the air temperature reaches 40C in the shade. The dry landscape holds heat, affecting the water.

The temperature would suggest smaller tanks, as filling large tanks with fish suited to such warmth is not easy. Paracheirodon axelrodi and P. simulans do very well here [but certainly not their close relation P. innesi], and another characin is Petitella bleheri. Corydoras are out of the question in this warmth, but I believe some of the loricariids would work, but I would want to check species data.

The other ram, M. altispinosus, manages in a more "normal" temperature range, provided it is not below 76F/24C.

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Your thorough explanation is a tremendous help. I didn't quite understand @Essjay post. But Essjay's post makes since now. This has made up my mind with the M. Altispinosus (Bolivian Ram) then. This will be our centerpiece fish with other suitable tank mates centered around the Bolivian Ram.
For my wife and I, Corydoras will be a must have.
From what I have researched thus far, "Peaceful bottom-dwellers such as Corydoras spp. catfishes can also be included and many smaller loricariids are also suitable." I read this on the "Seriously Fish" web site.
Other fish that we would like to have will be of the schooling or shoaling varieties from South America as well. I will be researching these type of fish next to find ones that are compatible with a M. Altispinosus.
Thanks Byron!

I am very fond of the Bolivian Ram, M. altispinosus, and provided one grasps a few aspects it will make a truly wonderful addition to a community tank. I don't know about "centrepiece," this depends what one means by the term. The Ram is not large, and he is a substrate-level fish. They eat from the substrate (the reason for the genus name, "small eartheater") and they love plants for cover. A solitary male, or a bonded pair; a group maybe, as you have the space. I've never had more than the solitary male long-term so I don't know just how forceful the males might be in managing their territory in such a situation.

I acquired a male from one of the best local shops in 2008. I housed this fish in my 5-foot 115g Amazon Riverscape [the photo in post 34 is this tank then, but I can't see him so the photo below shows him], which also housed 60+ wild-caught Corydoras (some 12 or 13 species represented), three or four small loricariids, and over a hundred upper characins including marble hatchetfish, pencilfish, and several tetra species groups. The Ram would poke cories away from "his" tab/disk/pellet during feeding, but nothing serious ever developed. He was in his tenth year when he just died, which I considered pretty good for a fish with a 4-5 year life expectancy.

A pair must have accepted each other and bond to be successful; this has to occur within a group of the species, often in the store tank. Even then, divorce is still possible. I gave my Ram a female in 2009, and with the benefit of hindsight and what I now know, they never "bonded" and it was doomed from the first. They spawned four times, then he had enough and killed her. I left him on his own, and for another eight years he governed this huge tank.

I was sitting in front of the tank one day and noticed the nine Bleeding Heart Tetras were in a tight shoal mid-tank, not moving. I sat there wondering why, and then I saw why: one of the tetras swam away from the shoal and out of nowhere the Ram came up below them, and they quickly re-formed a tight group. This went on all day. Obviously the tetras has annoyed the Ram and he took matters into his own "fins" and laid down the law. BH's are not what you would call wimpy fish (for a tetra anyway), but they had no intention of disobeying the Ram. Fish communicate with pheromones, in this case cross-species with allomones, and the Ram evidently made his case loud and clear.

You have a multitude of options for characin tankmates; only real criteria is that they be peaceful species, with no propensity to possibly fin nip.