Mating behavior?

KatNor21 · Jul 29, 2021

I was told I had two females and a male. But what I thought were two female sunset honey gouramis have been slowly circling up against each other on and off all day. Could one of these be a male? They both have a stripe so I thought female. Meanwhile the obvious male is showing some black markings. Can someone explain what's happening here?

Sunnyspots · Jul 30, 2021

It looks like they might be sizing each other up? Males do that when they are about to fight. That's a possibility I guess.

Essjay · Jul 30, 2021

The fish in the last photo is male. Yellow honey males don't develop a black throat to the same extent as the wild colour, it's usually smaller and more patchy. You can see this black patch developing under the eye in the third photo.

If you can manage it, and the fish will co-operate, could you post a side on shot of the other gourami?

Sunnyspots · Jul 30, 2021

Essjay said:
The fish in the last photo is male. Yellow honey males don't develop a black throat to the same extent as the wild colour, it's usually smaller and more patchy. You can see this black patch developing under the eye in the third photo.

If you can manage it, and the fish will co-operate, could you post a side on shot of the other gourami?

I thought that was the one the OP said was her male, but didn't check - just assumed :blush:

.

Essjay · Jul 30, 2021

Sorry, I meant to confirm that the third fish was a male, and I mis-typed - I intended to ask for side shots of the other two fish and typed 'gourami' instead of 'gouramis' :blush:

Males can have stripes if they are stressed, though it's usually females that have stripes. Fins are another indicator which is why I asked for side shots. The other two fish do look female-ish but side shots would help.

The only time I had a trio of honey gouramis, the trouble was caused by one female constantly attacking the other. But I have assumed I had non-typical gouramis as everyone else seems to have females that live peacefully together. Perhaps KatNor21 also has non-typical females :blink:

Sunnyspots · Jul 30, 2021

Essjay said:
Sorry, I meant to confirm that the third fish was a male, and I mis-typed - I intended to ask for side shots of the other two fish and typed 'gourami' instead of 'gouramis'

Males can have stripes if they are stressed, though it's usually females that have stripes. Fins are another indicator which is why I asked for side shots. The other two fish do look female-ish but side shots would help.

The only time I had a trio of honey gouramis, the trouble was caused by one female constantly attacking the other. But I have assumed I had non-typical gouramis as everyone else seems to have females that live peacefully together. Perhaps KatNor21 also has non-typical females

There's a lot of it about :lol:

KatNor21 · Jul 30, 2021

Here's side photos of the two "females"

Essjay · Jul 30, 2021

They do look like two females.

Swimming side by side circling each other is what males do then they are deciding which one is the 'owner' of the tank. Females can do this as well, but it's less common than with males. It does suggest you have two females which don't get on, or are more territorial than females usually are. If they were mine, I would keep a close eye on them and come up with a back up plan to separate them if things turn nasty. Things may settle down once they've decided which is the dominant female, but it may not.

Mating behaviour involves the male swimming in front of the female in a vertical position with his head pointing towards the water surface.

KatNor21 · Jul 30, 2021

Essjay said:
It does suggest you have two females which don't get on

Interesting... I haven't noticed any obvious aggression. The circling seemed very gentle. I have seen a bit of chasing but no violence, and it's usually the male that's chasing one of the females. I wonder if the recent appearance of black patches on the male (perhaps breeding will be happening soon) means the females are feeling a bit competitive?

Naughts · Jul 30, 2021

Although you have spotted the behaviour and rightly questioned it I think in general we often miss aggression in fish. This extract is from Practical Fishkeeping in the article "Understanding territories" :

"Most animals don’t want to expend energy unnecessarily. It’s important to conserve resources, especially if you’re spending your whole day defending a territory rather than going out and foraging. The other important aspect of being conservative is that fighting is costly, and not just in terms of energy. When it comes to blows, either party becomes vulnerable to incurring injury, which puts them at risk of disease, weakens them against future competitors, and may make them less attractive to would-be partners.

To avoid a clash, most territorial species have a laundry list of actions to take before pouncing upon an intruder. Visual measures, such as dancing, flashing, or extending their gill plates and fins, can usually be perceived from a fair distance and most weaker fish can determine from this point that they’d likely lose a fight.

Many species of fish are quite vocal about their spot and may utilize sound to announce their presence in a particular area without bringing themselves out into the open, and without expending energy chasing potential rivals. How often these calls are heard depends on the species. Some will only vocalize when confronted with a foe, while others will ‘sing’ periodically to announce occupation.

Closer encounters follow for braver bachelors. Contending fishes will size each other up, display more enthusiastically, and even waft water at each other. Although seemingly non-threatening, these are indirect ways for fishes to determine just how strong their opponent may be without finding out first-hand.

Should all else fail, physicality ensues. Clashes don’t have to last long to determine the victor, and are usually resolved after a brief sparring session. Real damage occurs when neither party is willing to yield. In nature, fights usually resolve without mortal outcomes. Things may differ in aquaria, as we will soon find out."

The breeding colours of your male would make sense as the source of the new behaviour. The same article sites the need for territories as:

"Much like food supplies and breeding partners, territories are just one of many resources available to a fish in nature. Within the bounds of a territory are safety from predation, a home for a mate, a substrate to make a nest or lay and guard eggs, and an environment conducive to the survival and rearing of vulnerable young."

KatNor21 · Jul 30, 2021

Wow thanks for all that information. Is there anything I should do? Or just let them figure it out (unless there's violence)?

Naughts · Jul 30, 2021

As @Essjay said, keep a close eye on them and separate them if necessary (or removing the male should settle things down).

You could add plants, rocks and branches to break the line of sight.

Sunnyspots · Jul 30, 2021

I'd keep an eye on them in case of violence. If there is violence you may need to separate them with another tank or a divider - but that's another issue to consider if you come to it.

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