Lethargic platy laying on the gravel - help

Katsplaty said:

Thanks very much. I will look into a background, I’m not sure about salt as I had a fish jump out of the tank when I added salt so I have been scared ever since. I’ve changed a bucket full of water today and some yesterday but, it seems like several of them have clamped fins, flicking against things, then laying on the gravel, lethargic. I can’t see any signs of any white spot etc. The bullies in the other tank seem fine, touch wood. I don’t know what else to do because when I had something similar with my orange fish months ago ‘disease away by interpet’ worked.
I really want to help them.
I’m going to continue with large water changes daily.
Any other advice would be appreciated.

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How did you add the salt last time? Did you use aquarium or rock salt?

Livebearers are really good with salt, have used salt water treatment a number of times. But don't pour it directly into the tank. For one thing, it'll settle to the bottom rather than mixing through the water, but salt poured directly on the fish will sting them, like getting salt into a fresh wound, you know? But imagine a wound being washed with saline solution - that doesn't hurt, because it's diluted. Make sense?

So you start with the dosage given, but mix the salt in a bucket of water and make sure it's fully dissolved before adding it to the tank. Feed the fish on one side of the tank to distract them, then add the salted water on the other side of the tank, away from the fish. Mix enough salt in that bucket to treat the whole tank. Put the lid back on to prevent any jumpers, but they shouldn't jump when treated this way.

Salt is excellent for treating fungal and bacterial problems, and external protozoans. It really is the best, and least harmful - treatment when it comes to livebearers. When added properly, it won't do any harm, but it can really help with a number of potential problems.

Katsplaty said:

Thank you all, I tested my water. No ammonia, I did add ‘love fish ammonia treatment’ earlier though.
My nitrates and nitrites were low.

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Wait, you had a reading for nitrites?

I'm concerned about the amount of products you're using, I think this might be making it worse rather than helping.

You're doing a lot right, not trying to criticise you! I can see you care a lot, and you're doing your best to give your fish the best environment you can! The tank looks great, with a good amount of hiding spots. You did the right thing moving some substrate from the old tank to the new one too.

But if there has been an ammonia spike, and you had nitrites in there, it would explain a lot.

When you clean the filter/filter media, how do you do it? Do you rinse under tap water?

What products are using? You've mentioned the declorinator, ammo-lock, disease away, and filter boosters? Can you list what products you've added recently please?

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:

Wait, you had a reading for nitrites?

I'm concerned about the amount of products you're using, I think this might be making it worse rather than helping.

You're doing a lot right, not trying to criticise you! I can see you care a lot, and you're doing your best to give your fish the best environment you can! The tank looks great, with a good amount of hiding spots. You did the right thing moving some substrate from the old tank to the new one too.

But if there has been an ammonia spike, and you had nitrites in there, it would explain a lot.

When you clean the filter/filter media, how do you do it? Do you rinse under tap water?

What products are using? You've mentioned the declorinator, ammo-lock, disease away, and filter boosters? Can you list what products you've added recently please?

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Hi, thanks.,, I used aquarium salt by interpet and followed the instructions letting it dissolve first.
My tank was cycled and I followed a video online to move all decorations and plants etc over.
I clean my filter in tank water.
I use a fertiliser for my plants. The fish are used to this.
I do regular water changes
I vacuum the gravel.
I use Aquarian dechlorinate
And stress coat. Sometimes both depending
I use filter booster by love fish and the balls, which I can’t think of the name of right now.
I feed once a day.
And give them shrimp treats occasionally that you stick on the glass.
My Platies don’t like vegetables only flakes.
I put interpet disease away about 4 days ago.
I used a bit of a ammonia remover for the first time the other day, by love fish.

The same fish is still swimming intermittently and then laying down again. He’s clamping sometimes.
I don’t know what’s happening.

One is clamping then unclamping a lot.

One my white Mickey Mouse platy is clamping but, he often hides and is like that a lot. He’s been flicking against things. He looks red by his gills so I did wonder if he had flukes but his gills always look red as he’s so white.

One is just flicking.

I really don’t know what’s going on.

My nitrites were zero.

video of fish clamping fins and rubbing on things?

shine a torch (flashlight for the Americans) on the fish after lights have been turned off and see if there is a yellow or gold sheen to any of the fish. If there is, they have velvet.

Thanks Colin, will try the torch, I’m freaking out. I will try and get a video of them flicking but, one just was on his side. Then he got up and swam, could that be swim bladder? Not that I know much about it.
Several of them are flicking, one is looking really clamped and almost wonky.

It won’t let me send videos ?

Katsplaty said:

Thanks Colin, will try the torch, I’m freaking out. I will try and get a video of them flicking but, one just was on his side. Then he got up and swam, could that be swim bladder? Not that I know much about it.
Several of them are flicking, one is looking really clamped and almost wonky.

It won’t let me send videos ?

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It's not a swim bladder problem, they're all looking very fin clamped and stressed, so it's a water quality issue, not bullying or an individual with swim bladder problems. They're laying down because they're very stressed by the water, and close to dying, not because they can't swim.

Have you kept up with water changes? How often and how large a water change are you doing?

Please don't keep throwing more chemicals in there, I believe they're doing more harm than good. Do a large water change and use one of the water conditioners to declorinate, nothing else. Only one declorinator, no ammo lock, filter boosters or any of that other stuff.

Chemicals are not the solution here. Clean fresh water, and salt if you're finally willing to follow advice, but not more chemicals in a bottle.

stick the video on youtube and copy & paste the link here

They’re not all clamped. Some are clamped. I’ve tested my water and it’s all fine. I’ve been doing daily small changes. Around 3-5 litres, to help give them fresh water. They’re still eating.
I’ve not put any other chemicals in since I said originally but, I feel I need to treat them with something.
I don’t think I can just leave them now!

Thanks Colin, I’ll give that a go. I’m thinking about trying salt again, reluctantly. I have lots of plants. Will that be okay?

And they’re not all laying down by the way

And to Adorabelle again:

‘Finally willing to follow advice!’ What a ridiculous statement to someone looking for advice! You are clearly very aggressive, please leave me be. I’m doing the best I can.

Katsplaty said:

And to Adorabelle again:

‘Finally willing to follow advice!’ What a ridiculous statement to someone looking for advice! You are clearly very aggressive, please leave me be. I’m doing the best I can.

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I apologise, that was sharper than I meant to be.

I did put a great deal of effort into typing long replies to you before though, and you didn't seem to appreciate it, or let us know what you were doing in terms of daily water changes.

I'll stay away from your thread now, but I put a lot of time in in order to try to help, which wasn't aggressive at all until I was sharp then.

Small water changes are useless. Do a 75% water change to dilute the water.

You do water changes for 2 main reasons.
1) to reduce nutrients like ammonia, nitrite & nitrate.
2) to dilute disease organisms in the water.

Fish live in a soup of microscopic organisms including bacteria, fungus, viruses, protozoans, worms, flukes and various other things that make your skin crawl. Doing a big water change and gravel cleaning the substrate on a regular basis will dilute these organisms and reduce their numbers in the water, thus making it a safer and healthier environment for the fish.

If you do a 25% water change each week you leave behind 75% of the bad stuff in the water.
If you do a 50% water change each week you leave behind 50% of the bad stuff in the water.
If you do a 75% water change each week you leave behind 25% of the bad stuff in the water.

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Colin_T said:

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

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Thank you so much Colin,
I did a big water change and cleaned the gravel. I usually do this weekly anyway and that seems to have helped a bit. One fish is flicking still.
I’m going to put in the salt in the morning after just buying some more. I got rid of it after the bad experience I had.
I was thinking of trying a salt bath, is that something you recommend?
Thanks

By the way, I used a torch but, I’m not really sure if what I’m seeing is velvet, my black and red platy does have a tinge but, I don’t know if l’m seeing velvet or what he’d be like under torch light. I feel very confused. I hope the salt and big water change will help.
How long would you wait before doing another one?
Thanks

Katsplaty said:

And to Adorabelle again:

‘Finally willing to follow advice!’ What a ridiculous statement to someone looking for advice! You are clearly very aggressive, please leave me be. I’m doing the best I can.

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AdoraBelle Dearheart said:

I apologise, that was sharper than I meant to be.

I did put a great deal of effort into typing long replies to you before though, and you didn't seem to appreciate it, or let us know what you were doing in terms of daily water changes.

I'll stay away from your thread now, but I put a lot of time in in order to try to help, which wasn't aggressive at all until I was sharp then.

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I replied to you in great detail, I am grateful for any replies I get when my fish are unwell, I am new to this.

I have no thrown any products in, I used one a week ago that I have used in the past and really helped.
The only things I use are a filter boost and dechlorinating products.
I was doing daily water changes to help and today I have just changed 75% and a gravel vac as per advice.
I have also repurchased some salt, I’m nervous to use it but, will try again if it will help.

Katsplaty said:

By the way, I used a torch but, I’m not really sure if what I’m seeing is velvet, my black and red platy does have a tinge but, I don’t know if l’m seeing velvet or what he’d be like under torch light. I feel very confused. I hope the salt and big water change will help.
How long would you wait before doing another one?
Thanks


I replied to you in great detail, I am grateful for any replies I get when my fish are unwell, I am new to this.

I have no thrown any products in, I used one a week ago that I have used in the past and really helped.
The only things I use are a filter boost and dechlorinating products.
I was doing daily water changes to help and today I have just changed 75% and a gravel vac as per advice.
I have also repurchased some salt, I’m nervous to use it but, will try again if it will help.

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I always say thank you because it is very kind of strangers to take the time to give advice.