Sickly Java Moss & Moss Ball

Hi all! It's my first time posting here, so excuse any abnormal/'newbie'-ness on my part. (Also a bit new to the fishkeeping hobby.)

I'm really looking for help & insight on my Java Moss & Marimo Moss Ball. I have a few different tanks setup, but for this topic, I have:

1. 25gal tropical aquarium (housing (3) mollies, (1) female crown tail betta, (3) pearl danios, (2) mystery snails, and (1) Chinese algae eater)
2. 10gal goldfish tank (housing (5) various small goldfish)

I received a chunk of java moss from a pet store that they offered to me, and moss balls that came from Petsmart. I split the java moss and the moss balls evenly into each tank (half java moss + 1 moss ball per tank).

The goldfish tank is doing great & flourishing - everything going well these past few months.

Tropical tank, not so much. I had a big dip of ph level & ammonia spiking - long story short, half of my fishies died and the other half got sick. After a lot of cleaning, water changes, water tests, medicine,. etc. - I realized it was still not getting better. The water's ammonia was always high & smelled like urine. Crazy!

I started to realize that the java moss & moss ball looked sickly - not brown, but not green. Perhaps yellowing, but nothing excessive? Almost like a pale green color. I took them both out & I believe the urine smell was coming from these plants.

After taking them out, the tropical tank has stabilized and everyone is doing fine. Except for the java moss & moss ball, which are sitting in a plastic cup (like the ones you receive a betta fish in at Petsmart). I tried giving them some aquarium water, and tending to it a little, but after some time still, it smells like urine.

My questions are:

• Is the java moss & moss ball too sick to recover?
• Is it a good idea to place it back into the tropical aquarium, to help it recover? (It's probably not going to recover just sitting in a cup.)
• Would it do better recovering in the goldfish tank, with the healthy java moss & moss ball?
• I also have a small filtered betta fish tank (3gal) - would that be a better spot to help it recover?
• Is there anything additional I should buy/get to help it recover? I've read about things like fertilizer, etc. I even had the thought of getting a ghost shrimp to maybe help eat any algae that might be stunting its health/growth?

I usually do well by just researching issues on my own, but nobody seems to have encountered this in the same way I have. If anyone has any insight or advice at all, I would love to hear it!

Thanks so much in advance!

pinklets said:

My questions are:

• Is the java moss & moss ball too sick to recover?
• Is it a good idea to place it back into the tropical aquarium, to help it recover? (It's probably not going to recover just sitting in a cup.)
• Would it do better recovering in the goldfish tank, with the healthy java moss & moss ball?
• I also have a small filtered betta fish tank (3gal) - would that be a better spot to help it recover?
• Is there anything additional I should buy/get to help it recover? I've read about things like fertilizer, etc. I even had the thought of getting a ghost shrimp to maybe help eat any algae that might be stunting its health/growth?

Click to expand...

1) May we please see pictures of the moss?
2) Yes. Warm water and light will help it grow.
3) The goldfish may eat it, so no.
4) It's your choice. Depends on the lighting in the different tanks.
5) Liquid Fertilizers can help it grow much better. Seachem Flourish is a really good one. Ghost shrimp (and any shrimp for that matter) won't eat the kind of algae that grows on Java Moss. (At least in my experience)

Welcome to the forum by the way!

PheonixKingZ said:

1) May we please see pictures of the moss?
2) Yes. Warm water and light will help it grow.
3) The goldfish may eat it, so no.
4) It's your choice. Depends on the lighting in the different tanks.
5) Liquid Fertilizers can help it grow much better. Seachem Flourish is a really good one. Ghost shrimp (and any shrimp for that matter) won't eat the kind of algae that grows on Java Moss. (At least in my experience)

Welcome to the forum by the way!

Click to expand...

Absolutely! When I get home from work I'll take some photos of the moss(es?) for reference. Hopefully that will help shine light on what kind of issue it's going through.

Thank you so much for welcoming me and providing some answers to my questions!!

Welcome to the forum.
I have no advice on the moss balls or java, but must point out a couple of things:

1. Goldfish do not belong in a 10G tank, for any amount of time, they are messy eaters and messy poopers, with huge bioloads.
2. That CAE will get huge, aggressive, and are known for attaching to, and sucking off the slime coats of other, slow moving fish.

Sorry for being the bearer of bad news, but these are common newbie mistakes, we all have made them at one time or another.

RESEARCH is key when setting up new tanks, and choosing fish to keep.

Slaphppy7 said:

Welcome to the forum.
I have no advice on the moss balls or java, but must point out a couple of things:

1. Goldfish do not belong in a 10G tank, for any amount of time, they are messy eaters and messy poopers, with huge bioloads.
2. That CAE will get huge, aggressive, and are known for attaching to, and sucking off the slime coats of other, slow moving fish.

Sorry for being the bearer of bad news, but these are common newbie mistakes, we all have made them at one time or another.

RESEARCH is key when setting up new tanks, and choosing fish to keep.

Click to expand...

Ah, I see. I've heard about getting a strong filter for goldfish because of the waste & I like to clean it out/water change once a week. I also keep a strong bubbler in there for oxygen. I guess I thought I was off-setting the smaller tank in this way. They're all pretty small, but I know they'll grow. In time I can always upgrade.

As for the Chinese Algae Eater - I had a feeling that that was the wrong one. Because, there's a Chinese Algae Eater, and a very similar, Siamese Algae Eater - correct? The Siamese is supposed to be friendlier/less aggressive? And, the CAE is more aggressive? I think I remember reading about that.

Thanks for the heads up.

PheonixKingZ said:

1) May we please see pictures of the moss?
2) Yes. Warm water and light will help it grow.
3) The goldfish may eat it, so no.
4) It's your choice. Depends on the lighting in the different tanks.
5) Liquid Fertilizers can help it grow much better. Seachem Flourish is a really good one. Ghost shrimp (and any shrimp for that matter) won't eat the kind of algae that grows on Java Moss. (At least in my experience)

Welcome to the forum by the way!

Click to expand...

I have pictures of the moss!

That is definitely some sick Java Moss/Marimo Moss Ball.

They may be past the point of recovery... did you move the, back to one of the bigger tanks?

Liquid fertilizers would definitely help them.

PheonixKingZ said:

That is definitely some sick Java Moss/Marimo Moss Ball.

They may be past the point of recovery... did you move the, back to one of the bigger tanks?

Liquid fertilizers would definitely help them.

Click to expand...

Awh, shoot. I didn't move them back because I was too afraid, lol. I wanted someone to see the photos first. In that cup they smell like farts. Sorry for the immature wording, but... yeah.

pinklets said:

Awh, shoot. I didn't move them back because I was too afraid, lol. I wanted someone to see the photos first. In that cup they smell like farts. Sorry for the immature wording, but... yeah.

Click to expand...

It’s probably already started decomposing. At this point, you would probably spend more money trying to save it, than you would just getting new moss.

I find that Java Moss grows best if it’s near the surface. It works really well if it’s attached to a piece of driftwood, that is near the surface, sort of like this:

(Excuse the messy tanks. )

PheonixKingZ said:

It’s probably already started decomposing. At this point, you would probably spend more money trying to save it, than you would just getting new moss.

I find that Java Moss grows best if it’s near the surface. It works really well if it’s attached to a piece of driftwood, that is near the surface, sort of like this:
View attachment 129299View attachment 129300
(Excuse the messy tanks. )

Click to expand...

Whoa! Beautiful! I would prefer to have something heavily planted like that. I'm still working my way up to getting more plants and the kinds that would do well. I think I will just have to toss the moss. (Heh, rhymes.)

I thought that java moss didn't respond well to strong lighting? Wouldn't it be too bright living at the top of my tank?

Additionally, I love the dark corners of your tanks - how are you manipulating your light source? I find my tanks to be so very bright, which I like (just so I can see my fish friends), but I'm sure they're probably not in-love with burning, bright lights for long periods of time.

pinklets said:

Whoa! Beautiful! I would prefer to have something heavily planted like that. I'm still working my way up to getting more plants and the kinds that would do well. I think I will just have to toss the moss. (Heh, rhymes.)

I thought that java moss didn't respond well to strong lighting? Wouldn't it be too bright living at the top of my tank?

Additionally, I love the dark corners of your tanks - how are you manipulating your light source? I find my tanks to be so very bright, which I like (just so I can see my fish friends), but I'm sure they're probably not in-love with burning, bright lights for long periods of time.

Click to expand...

Interestingly enough, mine flourish in bright light. I have a Nicrew Classic LED in my 20g long, and a desk lamp with an LED bulb in my 29g tank. (The 20g long was the first photo)

The moss is about 3-4 inches from the light:

pinklets said:

Additionally, I love the dark corners of your tanks - how are you manipulating your light source? I find my tanks to be so very bright, which I like (just so I can see my fish friends), but I'm sure they're probably not in-love with burning, bright lights for long periods of time.

Click to expand...

You just sort of have to play with the lighting. What model/brand of light do you have in the tank I’m question? In the back right corner, I have a back filter, which helps. (I also have Java Moss back there, which grows darker than most plants) In the back left corner, I have lots of Narrow Leafed Anacharis and some Dragon stone.

That's good to know, thank you! I'll definitely be doing more research on plants. Pretty cool stuff!

PheonixKingZ said:

You just sort of have to play with the lighting. What model/brand of light do you have in the tank I’m question? In the back right corner, I have a back filter, which helps. (I also have Java Moss back there, which grows darker than most plants) In the back left corner, I have lots of Narrow Leafed Anacharis and some Dragon stone.

Click to expand...

I honestly couldn't say what kind of lighting I have, unfortunately. I should probably start to learn those specifics. I was gifted a tank kit that came with the hood & light, so I'm not sure. I know that it has the capability to turn into blue light (black light?).

pinklets said:

Ah, I see. I've heard about getting a strong filter for goldfish because of the waste & I like to clean it out/water change once a week. I also keep a strong bubbler in there for oxygen. I guess I thought I was off-setting the smaller tank in this way. They're all pretty small, but I know they'll grow. In time I can always upgrade.

As for the Chinese Algae Eater - I had a feeling that that was the wrong one. Because, there's a Chinese Algae Eater, and a very similar, Siamese Algae Eater - correct? The Siamese is supposed to be friendlier/less aggressive? And, the CAE is more aggressive? I think I remember reading about that.

Thanks for the heads up.

Click to expand...

What kind of goldfish are they? It really doesn't matter, they won't be able to stay in the 10G for long. A single goldfish needs around 30G of water, they put out alot of waste, which will tax the water params in the tank. Best case scenario would be to rehome them all.
The CAE needs to be rehomed as well. A SAE would still be pushing the limits on the 25G.
Use this stocking tool, plug in your tanks/filters/fish you have, and view the results...you may be shocked: http://www.aqadvisor.com/
It's an excellent tool for planning on stocking levels for a particular tank size and filter combination; tends to be a bit on the conservative side, but no problems there.
If you don't have one of these yet, get one ASAP: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000255NCI/?tag=ff0d01-20
And the best water conditioner out there (IMO) is this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00025694O/?tag=ff0d01-20

After you get your liquid test kit, run ammonia, nitrIte, and nitrAte tests, and report back on the forum; you may want to start a new subject, since we've strayed form the plant issues you started this thread with.

Good luck!

Slaphppy7 said:

Use this stocking tool, plug in your tanks/filters/fish you have, and view the results...you may be shocked: http://www.aqadvisor.com/
It's an excellent tool for planning on stocking levels for a particular tank size and filter combination; tends to be a bit on the conservative side, but no problems there.
If you don't have one of these yet, get one ASAP: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000255NCI/?tag=ff0d01-20
And the best water conditioner out there (IMO) is this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00025694O/?tag=ff0d01-20

After you get your liquid test kit, run ammonia, nitrIte, and nitrAte tests, and report back on the forum; you may want to start a new subject, since we've strayed form the plant issues you started this thread with.

Click to expand...

Whoa! Thanks for the stocking tool. That's really awesome & super helpful. I'll definitely keep that link.

I do have the water test kit & I also have used that water conditioner before. I've heard it's the best, but because I have quite a few tanks and I had the whole issue with the moss - I had to use up all of it with frequent changes (I just had the small bottle).

When I can afford it again, I'll probably go back to that brand. Thanks for the insight!

More than welcome.