Hazy Tank

Paige2906 · Nov 18, 2020

Hi All,

Happy to have found what seems like a very friendly and useful forum.

I owned aquariums around 10 years ago and seem to have a lost a little knowledge on the matter. We purchased a 50l tank last week which came with a heater, the light and a filter. We had gravel and ornaments ect and so I thought it would be ok to set up the tank to ensure everything was working properly while I waited for everything else to arrive (by everything else I mean test strips, water treatments, a pump ect). The tank was filled with water but no treatment just yet as I say we were waiting for it to arrive but I assumed it wouldn't do any harm as there are no fish in it yet.

Few days in and the water was exceptionally clear. But we had an issue with the filter. I took the filter back to the shop yesterday, they fixed it and it's now working fine. Yesterday the water treatments came and so I added in the correct doses of the tap safe for how much water was in the tank, and half the amount of water treatment (the more weekly one) and every since the tank has been very unclear. I woke up this morning and it's just not any better.

Is this because the treatment I added? Why is it not clearing very well? Is there anything I can do, for example, should I be attempting a water change at this point? Seems pretty early but I would like for it to be sitting ready for fish?

Another point is that I have the heater sat at 25c but the thermometer is only ready 21.8c? Is that normal? And is 21.8c ok?

Thanks for any help guys I greatly appreciate it.

Guyb93 · Nov 18, 2020

Paige2906 said:
Hi All,

Happy to have found what seems like a very friendly and useful forum.

I owned aquariums around 10 years ago and seem to have a lost a little knowledge on the matter. We purchased a 50l tank last week which came with a heater, the light and a filter. We had gravel and ornaments ect and so I thought it would be ok to set up the tank to ensure everything was working properly while I waited for everything else to arrive (by everything else I mean test strips, water treatments, a pump ect). The tank was filled with water but no treatment just yet as I say we were waiting for it to arrive but I assumed it wouldn't do any harm as there are no fish in it yet.

Few days in and the water was exceptionally clear. But we had an issue with the filter. I took the filter back to the shop yesterday, they fixed it and it's now working fine. Yesterday the water treatments came and so I added in the correct doses of the tap safe for how much water was in the tank, and half the amount of water treatment (the more weekly one) and every since the tank has been very unclear. I woke up this morning and it's just not any better.

Is this because the treatment I added? Why is it not clearing very well? Is there anything I can do, for example, should I be attempting a water change at this point? Seems pretty early but I would like for it to be sitting ready for fish?

Another point is that I have the heater sat at 25c but the thermometer is only ready 21.8c? Is that normal? And is 21.8c ok?

Thanks for any help guys I greatly appreciate it.

Iv had bad readings from heaters to thermometer my heater is maxed at 32 but keeps the tank at around 27 , just think either the thermostat in the heaters are out or we use heaters slightly to small ,who knows lol

Essjay · Nov 18, 2020

Most heaters are badly calibrated - the reading on the dial is not what they heat the water to. You need to adjust the dial to get the temperature you want.
What type of thermometer do you have? Those that stick on the outside of the tank are less accurate than the kind that go inside the tank. And even inside the tank ones can be inaccurate. The simplest way to buy a thermometer is to look at the temparature they read in the shop. If most read the same but a couple read different, buy from the group that read the same

Cloudiness is common in new tanks. It's either dust from the gravel if it wasn't washed properly or it's a bacterial bloom. There are bacteria in the water and when you add water conditioner it removes chlorine so there's now nothing to kill the bacteria so the few that survive suddenly start to multiply. Bloom bacteria are not the ones we need to grow; they feed off carbon based matter, they live floating in the water and they multiply very quickly. There is carbon based matter in tap water and all the new plastic things in the tank leach plasticiser to feed these bacteria. They will die once their food runs out but as every tank is different, it is impossible to say how long that will take.

You need to cycle the tank before it is ready for fish. This is the best way of cycling

Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank: Read This First!

Cycling Your First Fresh Water Tank What is Cycling and Why is it Important? Fish waste, and especially fish breathing, plus uneaten food and other organic matter breaking down in a tank all produce Ammonia. This can quickly become toxic to fish if it is allowed to build up to any measurable...

www.fishforums.net

The alternative is to get a lot of fast growing plants, wait until they are showing signs of active growth, then add fish a few at a time.

Paige2906 · Nov 18, 2020

Guyb93 said:
Iv had bad readings from heaters to thermometer my heater is maxed at 32 but keeps the tank at around 27 , just think either the thermostat in the heaters are out or we use heaters slightly to small ,who knows lol

Thanks for this. I think may then I will up the heater slightly. It's not hugely off, I've set it at 25 and it's reading 21.1-21.8c.

Paige2906 · Nov 18, 2020

essjay said:
Most heaters are badly calibrated - the reading on the dial is not what they heat the water to. You need to adjust the dial to get the temperature you want.
What type of thermometer do you have? Those that stick on the outside of the tank are less accurate than the kind that go inside the tank. And even inside the tank ones can be inaccurate. The simplest way to buy a thermometer is to look at the temparature they read in the shop. If most read the same but a couple read different, buy from the group that read the same

Cloudiness is common in new tanks. It's either dust from the gravel if it wasn't washed properly or it's a bacterial bloom. There are bacteria in the water and when you add water conditioner it removes chlorine so there's now nothing to kill the bacteria so the few that survive suddenly start to multiply. Bloom bacteria are not the ones we need to grow; they feed off carbon based matter, they live floating in the water and they multiply very quickly. There is carbon based matter in tap water and all the new plastic things in the tank leach plasticiser to feed these bacteria. They will die once their food runs out but as every tank is different, it is impossible to say how long that will take.

You need to cycle the tank before it is ready for fish. This is the best way of cycling

Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank: Read This First!

Cycling Your First Fresh Water Tank What is Cycling and Why is it Important? Fish waste, and especially fish breathing, plus uneaten food and other organic matter breaking down in a tank all produce Ammonia. This can quickly become toxic to fish if it is allowed to build up to any measurable...

www.fishforums.net

The alternative is to get a lot of fast growing plants, wait until they are showing signs of active growth, then add fish a few at a time.

Thank you for your reply.

I'll add a picture of I can of the thermometer. It is positioned outside the tank, but has a wire that goes inside and sits on the back wall. The instructions said to position away from filter and heater. But I have the heater on the right and the filter on the left so the thermometer is just in the middle.

I think the cloudiness is going slowly. I tested the water yesterday with a test strip prior to adding anything the water and the results came back pretty good considering it was just tap water. I tested the water again today after adding in Aqua Safe and EasyBalance and it seems that the GH has done right up and the KH moved up slightly.

My plan is to put in some plants before adding in fish. I want it to be right before I add in anything.

In terms of cycling the tank, I keep seeing a lot of people say this, and I have read the article and I think it's what I'm doing.. Adding bits in slowly. Testing. Making sure it's OK? Am I missing something?

Thanks again for your time! I've added some pics too

Guyb93 · Nov 18, 2020

Paige2906 said:
Thanks for this. I think may then I will up the heater slightly. It's not hugely off, I've set it at 25 and it's reading 21.1-21.8c.

Will the heater maintain a higher temperature say if you used warm water on a water change will it stay there or slowly drop back down ? It could be just tht it’s not his chance to heat up properly but I’d go with crappy thermostat on heaters , my heater says I’m cooking my fish and my thermometer says sweet lol

Paige2906 · Nov 18, 2020

Guyb93 said:
Will the heater maintain a higher temperature say if you used warm water on a water change will it stay there or slowly drop back down ? It could be just tht it’s not his chance to heat up properly but I’d go with crappy thermostat on heaters , my heater says I’m cooking my fish and my thermometer says sweet lol

So I filled up the tank with just usual cold water at first, then yesterday it looked a little low so I topped it up with another lot of warmer water (pre water treatment).

I'd like to think it's had time to warm up fully, it's been on for a few days now (since Saturday). I think I'll put the heater up a notch and see if the thermometer changes.

Essjay · Nov 18, 2020

That kind of thermometer is fine, it's those strips that change colour for each temperature that are inaccurate. Sorry, I should have been more specific.

With plants you can do a silent cycle. Live plants take up ammonia as fertiliser and they don't turn it into nitrite or nitrate. One or two slow growing plants won't take up much ammonia but fast growing stem plants, and even better, floating plants do. With a silent cycle, the tank is planted and then left for a while for the plants to establish - the last thing you want is to get fish then the plants suddenly die. Once you are sure the plants are actively growing, the fist batch of fish can be added. It is sensible to test for ammonia and nitrite every day to make sure the plants are using all the ammonia made by the fish. After a week or two of zeros, the next batch of fish can be added. again checking for ammonia and nitrite afterwards.

Paige2906 · Nov 19, 2020

essjay said:
That kind of thermometer is fine, it's those strips that change colour for each temperature that are inaccurate. Sorry, I should have been more specific.

With plants you can do a silent cycle. Live plants take up ammonia as fertiliser and they don't turn it into nitrite or nitrate. One or two slow growing plants won't take up much ammonia but fast growing stem plants, and even better, floating plants do. With a silent cycle, the tank is planted and then left for a while for the plants to establish - the last thing you want is to get fish then the plants suddenly die. Once you are sure the plants are actively growing, the fist batch of fish can be added. It is sensible to test for ammonia and nitrite every day to make sure the plants are using all the ammonia made by the fish. After a week or two of zeros, the next batch of fish can be added. again checking for ammonia and nitrite afterwards.

As advised from the thread I upped the temperature on the heater to the max early this morning but currently the temperature is still sat at 21.1c. I'm not sure if a. the heater is working? and b. If this is the temp it's going to sit at, is this ok for the likes of guppies, tetras ect?

In terms of plants, we are going to try and get some this afternoon. Its not a huge tank so I was hoping to get some taller plants for the back of the tank to hide the filter and heater ect. And then some other smaller plants to dot around. I'll continue to check the tank every day for the next few days and see what happens with the 5in1 tests.

I am hopeful that we can get the fish at the latest Monday (I'm off work so will be a good day of aquarium-ing!)

Essjay · Nov 19, 2020

Do you have any other kind of thermometer you could use to check yours is working right?

You mention guppies and neon tetras - they shouldn't really be kept in the same type of water. Guppies are hard water fish; neons are soft water fish.
The next thing you need to do is look on your water company's website for your hardness. You need a number rather than words (though 3 companies don't give numbers). If you can't find it, tell us the name of the company and we'll see if we can find it.
Once you know how hard the water is, you can choose from the fish which need that hardness.

Paige2906 · Nov 19, 2020

essjay said:
Do you have any other kind of thermometer you could use to check yours is working right?

You mention guppies and neon tetras - they shouldn't really be kept in the same type of water. Guppies are hard water fish; neons are soft water fish.
The next thing you need to do is look on your water company's website for your hardness. You need a number rather than words (though 3 companies don't give numbers). If you can't find it, tell us the name of the company and we'll see if we can find it.
Once you know how hard the water is, you can choose from the fish which need that hardness.

Erm, weirdly no, not really, not without buying another thermometer.

Really?! I had them in them in all my previous tanks back in the day and it seemed to work fine, how odd.

I have had a look at the water report but it's showing a lot of detail, of which I'm not sure I understand any of it, currently with SES, if you could help that would be great!

Essjay · Nov 19, 2020

It is only fairly recently that we have understood about water hardness. Hardness is the measure of calcium and magnesium in the water (mostly calcium). Soft water has few minerals and soft water fish have evolved to hang onto the minerals from the water; put them in hard water and they still hang onto minerals but there are now so many that they cause calcium deposits in the kidneys which shorten their lives. Hard water has lots of calcium and hard water fish have evolved so they remove most of the minerals from their bodies; if they are kept in soft water they continue excreting minerals but now there are not enough to replace them so they suffer mineral deficiency and get sick more easily.

To find your hardness go to this page

Your water quality and hardness report | SES Water

SES Water produces tailored annual reports about your water supply - find the report for your zone.

seswater.co.uk

Enter your postcode in the box and click GO. On the next page there should be a pdf for your zone; download it. This will give you a document which has a table (which will have numbers in not xxx)

You want two of those numbers, the ones under calcium carbonate (mg/l) [this is the same as ppm] and German [this is the same as dH]. Those are the two numbers units of measurement used in fishkeeping.

Paige2906 · Nov 19, 2020

essjay said:
It is only fairly recently that we have understood about water hardness. Hardness is the measure of calcium and magnesium in the water (mostly calcium). Soft water has few minerals and soft water fish have evolved to hang onto the minerals from the water; put them in hard water and they still hang onto minerals but there are now so many that they cause calcium deposits in the kidneys which shorten their lives. Hard water has lots of calcium and hard water fish have evolved so they remove most of the minerals from their bodies; if they are kept in soft water they continue excreting minerals but now there are not enough to replace them so they suffer mineral deficiency and get sick more easily.

To find your hardness go to this page

Your water quality and hardness report | SES Water

SES Water produces tailored annual reports about your water supply - find the report for your zone.

seswater.co.uk

Enter your postcode in the box and click GO. On the next page there should be a pdf for your zone; download it. This will give you a document which has a table (which will have numbers in not xxx)
View attachment 123017

You want two of those numbers, the ones under calcium carbonate (mg/l) [this is the same as ppm] and German [this is the same as dH]. Those are the two numbers units of measurement used in fishkeeping.

Ok, so do I take from that the it's better, or rather, more beneficial to be somewhere that has a higher hardness of water?

I did as you requested and here are the results:

I'm sure this makes much more sense to you than it does me!

Essjay · Nov 19, 2020

Rounding the figures to whole numbers, your hardness is 193 ppm and 11 dH.

Your hardness is middling rather than soft or hard. The main thing is to avoid those species which must have very soft water and which must have very hard water.
Look up the fish you are interested in on https://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/
The profiles will tell you the hardness range the species needs - some profiles use ppm some use dH which is why you need to know the number for both. Look for species which has your hardness in the fish's range.
The profiles will also tell you the temperature they need, the smallest size tank they can go in, and other quirks such as being nippy, needing a certain kind of food etc.

mcordelia · Nov 19, 2020

Regarding the heater issue - could your heater just be undersized for your tank? Is the heating light continuously on? I ask because it sounds like your temperature stayed constant even though you turned the heater up, which sounds like the heater may already be working as hard as it can. There are some factors in addition to the size of the tank that affect how many watts heater you need, the most relevant one being the temperature differential between your house and the tank water. Other less notable factors are air flow around the tank and proximity to a home heating unit vs exterior wall. Your heater will wear out faster if it is always working at its peak capacity, so you may be better off getting a second auxiliary heater to help the main heater. I personally always believe in having at least two heaters per tank, because if one breaks, the temperature will decrease much more gradually and gives you time to fix the situation without shocking the fish.

Also welcome to the forum I am looking forward to following along on your fishkeeping journey!

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