Advice to Help My Bloated Neon?

sweeteybabey · Oct 22, 2020

So my black neon tetra has become very bloated (I've attached some photos). She's still swimming and eating fine, and she isn't separating herself from the fish which is good! I suspect it may have been due to me feeding her flakes, but I've now switched to micro pellets.

The neon has been bloated for around four days now, I've fasted her for three days and fed her a blanched pea yesterday. She's not losing the bloat which is worrying me.

- Should I keep feeding peas instead of pellets? Or is that worse for her?
- Can I add Epsom salt into the main tank (with corys, otos, and plants) instead of taking her out for baths - which would stress her out more?

I posted on Reddit about this but all of the replies I got were criticisms about my tank, which I'm very aware of (quite high nitrate despite it being 30ppm for a year now because of my tap water and tank size - which I will be upgrading). I'm only a teenager so I can't spend a lot of money right now upgrading my tank size. Any advice would be very much appreciated!

PheonixKingZ · Oct 22, 2020

Looks pregnant to me... I know @NCaquatics has some black neons, maybe she can help.

CassCats · Oct 22, 2020

Possibly gravid, but keep an eye on the poops, I'd be wary of parasites

sweeteybabey · Oct 22, 2020

NCaquatics said:
Possibly gravid, but keep an eye on the poops, I'd be wary of parasites

Okay! I just noticed she's pooping which is great, both of the neon's poop seems to hang out in a string before falling, but only for an hour maximum. Is that something to be worried about? They've been like this ever since I got them (over four months) so I'm wondering if it's just because of the flakes.

CassCats · Oct 22, 2020

I would fast them for a day or two and see if it makes a difference. This could also be an overfeeding thing.

Watch for white string poops in particular.

sweeteybabey · Oct 23, 2020

Iv

NCaquatics said:
I would fast them for a day or two and see if it makes a difference. This could also be an overfeeding thing.

Watch for white string poops in particular.

I've already fasted them for three days and in worried about them starving

can I just give them blanched peas for a while or is that still technically starving them?

CassCats · Oct 23, 2020

Okay so if you've been fasting them and no change, you can rule out overfeeding.

Next step, I would soak some food in epsom salt.

1 teaspoon of epsom salt per 5 gallons.

Take a few drops of it to soak their flakes or pellets, enough to saturate them but not have excess water.

Use this mix to feed them daily for 5 days.

If constipated, it will help. If parasites it may help alleviate it but you may still need a dewormer

Colin_T · Oct 23, 2020

If the fish is eating well and doing normal coloured poop, it probably has eggs in its body or is a fatty who likes food.

If the fish has stringy white poop, then it's a problem. More info about this below.

--------------------
Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons.
1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be cured because massive internal organ failure has already occurred.

-----
2) Internal Protozoan Infections cause the fish to lose weight rapidly (over a week or two), fish continues to eat and swim around but not as much as normal, does stringy white poop. If not treated the fish dies a week or so after these symptoms appear. Metronidazole normally works well for this.

There is a medication (API General Cure) that contains Praziquantel and Metronidazole.

It's interesting that API and the Californian government have listed Metronidazole as a carcinogen. That's a concern considering it was widely used to treat intestinal infections in people.

Anyway, if you use this or any medication, handle with care, don't ingest or inhale the medication, and wash hands with soapy water after treating the fish or working in the tank.

-----
3) Intestinal Worms like tapeworm and threadworms cause the fish to lose weight, continue eating and swimming normally, and do a stringy white poop. Fish can do this for months and not be too badly affected. In some cases, fish with a bad worm infestation will actually gain weight and get fat and look like a pregnant guppy. This is due to the huge number of worms inside the fish.

You can use Praziquantel to treat tapeworm and gill flukes. And Levamisole to treat thread/ round worms. If you can't find these medications, look for Flubendazole, which treats both lots of worms.

In the UK look for:
eSHa gdex contains praziquantel that treats tapeworm and gill flukes.
eSHa-ndx contains levamisole and treats thread/ round worms.
NT Labs Anti-fluke and Wormer contains flubendazole.

Other products include
nt labs anti fluke and wormer (contains flubendazole)
Kusuri wormer plus (contains flubendazole) - sold mainly for discus, comes as a powder which is quite hard to dose in smaller tanks
Sera nematol (contains emamectin)

Remove carbon from filters before treatment and increase aeration/ surface turbulence to maximise oxygen levels in the water.

You treat the fish once a week for 4 weeks. The first treatment will kill any worms in the fish. The second, third and forth treatments kill any baby worms that hatch from eggs inside the fish's digestive tract.

Treat every fish tank in the house at the same time to prevent cross contamination.
You do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean 24-48 hours after treatment.

Clean the filter 24 hours after treatment too.

Do not use the 2 medications together. If you want to treat both medications in a short space of time, use Praziquantel on day one. Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate on day 2 & 3. Treat the tank with Levamisole on day 4 and do a 75% water change and gravel clean on day 5, 6 & 7 and then start with Praziquantel again on day 8.

The water changes will remove most of the medication so you don't overdose the fish the next time you treat them. The gravel cleaning will suck out any worms and eggs that have been expelled by the fish. Repeating the treatment for 3-4 doses at weekly intervals will kill any worms that hatch from eggs. At the end of the treatment you will have healthier fish.

itiwhetu · Oct 23, 2020

She looks like she is carrying eggs to me, I take it she is in a school and there are males. How many black neons do you have.

sweeteybabey · Oct 24, 2020

NCaquatics said:
Okay so if you've been fasting them and no change, you can rule out overfeeding.

Next step, I would soak some food in epsom salt.

1 teaspoon of epsom salt per 5 gallons.

Take a few drops of it to soak their flakes or pellets, enough to saturate them but not have excess water.

Use this mix to feed them daily for 5 days.

If constipated, it will help. If parasites it may help alleviate it but you may still need a dewormer

Ah thank you thats a good idea!

sweeteybabey · Oct 24, 2020

itiwhetu said:
She looks like she is carrying eggs to me, I take it she is in a school and there are males. How many black neons do you have.

I used to have a school, but sadly only two are left now; and I can't buy anymore due to COVID and overpopulation (I know it's not great but they don't seem too stressed). I actually thought they were both female, since they're quite large.

sweeteybabey · Oct 25, 2020

sweeteybabey said:
Ah thank you thats a good idea!

Colin_T said:
If the fish is eating well and doing normal coloured poop, it probably has eggs in its body or is a fatty who likes food.

If the fish has stringy white poop, then it's a problem. More info about this below.

--------------------
Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons.
1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be cured because massive internal organ failure has already occurred.

-----
2) Internal Protozoan Infections cause the fish to lose weight rapidly (over a week or two), fish continues to eat and swim around but not as much as normal, does stringy white poop. If not treated the fish dies a week or so after these symptoms appear. Metronidazole normally works well for this.

There is a medication (API General Cure) that contains Praziquantel and Metronidazole.

It's interesting that API and the Californian government have listed Metronidazole as a carcinogen. That's a concern considering it was widely used to treat intestinal infections in people.

Anyway, if you use this or any medication, handle with care, don't ingest or inhale the medication, and wash hands with soapy water after treating the fish or working in the tank.

-----
3) Intestinal Worms like tapeworm and threadworms cause the fish to lose weight, continue eating and swimming normally, and do a stringy white poop. Fish can do this for months and not be too badly affected. In some cases, fish with a bad worm infestation will actually gain weight and get fat and look like a pregnant guppy. This is due to the huge number of worms inside the fish.

You can use Praziquantel to treat tapeworm and gill flukes. And Levamisole to treat thread/ round worms. If you can't find these medications, look for Flubendazole, which treats both lots of worms.

In the UK look for:
eSHa gdex contains praziquantel that treats tapeworm and gill flukes.
eSHa-ndx contains levamisole and treats thread/ round worms.
NT Labs Anti-fluke and Wormer contains flubendazole.

Other products include
nt labs anti fluke and wormer (contains flubendazole)
Kusuri wormer plus (contains flubendazole) - sold mainly for discus, comes as a powder which is quite hard to dose in smaller tanks
Sera nematol (contains emamectin)

Remove carbon from filters before treatment and increase aeration/ surface turbulence to maximise oxygen levels in the water.

You treat the fish once a week for 4 weeks. The first treatment will kill any worms in the fish. The second, third and forth treatments kill any baby worms that hatch from eggs inside the fish's digestive tract.

Treat every fish tank in the house at the same time to prevent cross contamination.
You do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean 24-48 hours after treatment.

Clean the filter 24 hours after treatment too.

Do not use the 2 medications together. If you want to treat both medications in a short space of time, use Praziquantel on day one. Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate on day 2 & 3. Treat the tank with Levamisole on day 4 and do a 75% water change and gravel clean on day 5, 6 & 7 and then start with Praziquantel again on day 8.

The water changes will remove most of the medication so you don't overdose the fish the next time you treat them. The gravel cleaning will suck out any worms and eggs that have been expelled by the fish. Repeating the treatment for 3-4 doses at weekly intervals will kill any worms that hatch from eggs. At the end of the treatment you will have healthier fish.

Thank you for all of this info! She isn't losing weight at all, but she's eating less now. She's staying in my big plant underneath the leaves, next to my bubble wand. I wiggle the bubble wand and she comes out for a few gulps of food but eventually goes back to the plant. Two days ago she had normal poop, haven't seen anything else since. I'm not sure what to do.

Koglin · Oct 25, 2020

sweeteybabey said:
(quite high nitrate despite it being 30ppm for a year now because of my tap water and tank size - which I will be upgrading). I'm only a teenager so I can't spend a lot of money right now

While you always want nitrates to be as close to 0 as possible (norm. 0-10) 30 and under is 'ok' for most tetras from what I found.

If you want a cheap option to help lower nitrates, you could look at some floating plants - they're great at eating nitrates and will help keep algae under control because of that. Keep in mind plant needs on the bottom of the tank though, as floating plants need maintenance and without it a lot of them can quickly cover the surface of a tank which reduces your lighting in the deeper levels.

Do your research regarding plants (especially floating) before getting them, lotta floating plants have different needs.

There are some pretty cheap options for floating plants though. It's debatable between folks that like and dislike it (and hard to get rid of if you change your mind later) but some places will just give you a bit of duckweed if you want some. If not, it will be very cheap (think my closest lfs sells it for $1.99/portion, and another I go to will just give you some if you ask). Duckweed is pretty hardy, and seems to survive a wide range of water conditions.

Alternatively, you could check out amazon frogbit (keep in mind with this 1, the roots can get up to 20" long), water spangles, water lettuce, or even red root floaters. Duckweed has short roots for a floater, and is probably the easiest to find for cheap. My water lettuce were only $2.99 for a few of them, and a lot of the places near me carry it too.

Lotta cool floating options to help with nitrates, just keep root length and surface needs in mind when researching. Surface needs to pay attention to: water agitation, surface area, and some floating plants need height/room to grow. Gotta remove some during water changes usually. If you need to reduce surface agitation there's a few ways to go about it without reducing your current. Lighting normally isn't as big an issue because they're on the surface, but certain lights will get them too hot. LEDs are good at not heating them up.

Aquarius57 · Jan 21, 2022

sweeteybabey said:
So my black neon tetra has become very bloated (I've attached some photos). She's still swimming and eating fine, and she isn't separating herself from the fish which is good! I suspect it may have been due to me feeding her flakes, but I've now switched to micro pellets.

The neon has been bloated for around four days now, I've fasted her for three days and fed her a blanched pea yesterday. She's not losing the bloat which is worrying me.

- Should I keep feeding peas instead of pellets? Or is that worse for her?
- Can I add Epsom salt into the main tank (with corys, otos, and plants) instead of taking her out for baths - which would stress her out more?

I posted on Reddit about this but all of the replies I got were criticisms about my tank, which I'm very aware of (quite high nitrate despite it being 30ppm for a year now because of my tap water and tank size - which I will be upgrading). I'm only a teenager so I can't spend a lot of money right now upgrading my tank size. Any advice would be very much appreciated!View attachment 120456 View attachment 120457

This is the same condition my black neon tetra has been showing for over a month now (since dec. 2021). I have no idea what could be causing this. I have thought it could be worms, constipapion, or pregnancy (eggs). But I'm just guessing. It swims and keeps acting normal, but looks as if it's bursting at any moment. See the pic.

Colin_T · Jan 21, 2022

the black neon tetra probably has a tumour. there's no cure.
if the fish has trouble swimming or stops eating, then euthanise it.

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Advice to Help My Bloated Neon?

sweeteybabey

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CassCats

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