75% water changes

itiwhetu said:

They won't because you will choose the correct fish for the space, and when they breed you will remove the young. All is good in your aquarium world

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I think AilyNC's point is that this isn't a low maintenance setup, having to remove fry all the time

mbsqw1d said:

I think AilyNC's point is that this isn't a low maintenance setup, having to remove fry all the time

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really

itiwhetu said:

They won't because you will choose the correct fish for the space, and when they breed you will remove the young. All is good in your aquarium world

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You missed my horrid start but thankfully things have calmed down. I wish I'd known more about the Nitrogen cycle when I got the tank & avoided a crashed cycle & so many losses.theres a very definite balance to strike as fish keepers in create an Eco system that closely mirrors their own but also adapts to the limitations of fish keeping - a more static environment, limited space, etc. For me 3 months in it's all learning.

mbsqw1d said:

I think AilyNC's point is that this isn't a low maintenance setup, having to remove fry all the time

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Exactly. Having to remove fry means an interference and isn't what these for should experience in their natural setting. Basically what we do isn't natural. It never will be. But we can we responsible in creating as best an Eco system as we can for the fish.

AilyNC said:

You missed my horrid start but thankfully things have calmed down. I wish I'd known more about the Nitrogen cycle when I got the tank & avoided a crashed cycle & so many losses.theres a very definite balance to strike as fish keepers in create an Eco system that closely mirrors their own but also adapts to the limitations of fish keeping - a more static environment, limited space, etc. For me 3 months in it's all learning.

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Stick at it, I have been playing with fish for 45 years, some of my ideas may seem foreign, don't believe me, go away do some searching, find out for yourself what you are happy with and make that work for your situation. I have dozens of books ( because I'm old ) I only now believe about half of what is written in any of them. That's pretty bad eh.

itiwhetu said:

Stick at it, I have been playing with fish for 45 years, some of my ideas may seem foreign, don't believe me, go away do some searching, find out for yourself what you are happy with and make that work for your situation. I have dozens of books ( because I'm old ) I only now believe about half of what is written in any of them. That's pretty bad eh.

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No I think it's common for us to go by what we know. I know nothing so I focus on the research & what's known to work or be suitable. I trusted my LFS and ended up with neon tetra in 307ppm water as well as two Gold Spotted Common Plecos, a Rainbow Shark, a Betta & 2 Angel fish... In a 60cm x 30cm (24" x 12") tank. And an un-cycled tank. Let's not forget his - adding plants us just changing too much & will stress fish, & floating plants will ruin your tank.

AilyNC said:

No I think it's common for us to go by what we know. I know nothing so I focus on the research & what's known to work or be suitable. I trusted my LFS and ended up with neon tetra in 307ppm water as well as two Gold Spotted Common Plecos, a Rainbow Shark, a Betta & 2 Angel fish... In a 60cm x 30cm (24" x 12") tank. And an un-cycled tank. Let's not forget his - adding plants us just changing too much & will stress fish, & floating plants will ruin your tank.

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Your tank looks great, your LFS only wants to make money. There is a thousand combinations that work, but only one for you, stick with it. I love this because it is so variable, How does that work for him but not for me. It is really cool. Trust yourself, ask questions don't believe anything.

itiwhetu said:

Your tank looks great, your LFS only wants to make money. There is a thousand combinations that work, but only one for you, stick with it. I love this because it is so variable, How does that work for him but not for me. It is really cool. Trust yourself, ask questions don't believe anything.

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Yeah i understand his motivation too & behind it is his responsibilities to pay his bills, mortgage, food, etc. But I'd prefer a call community environment. Are they happy? Who knows

AilyNC said:

Yeah i understand his motivation too & behind it is his responsibilities to pay his bills, mortgage, food, etc. But I'd prefer a call community environment. Are they happy? Who knows

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I ran my LFS and put myself out of business because I cared about my fish more than my income. A bit of a shame, but learnt a lot a long the way. The fish are what matters, that is why I am here.

I'm sure it's possible to get a balance but it requires better public education. Most of us expect to walk in LFS, pick up a bowl & some fish. I knew nothing of cycling a tank until it was an emergency. I didn't know my hard water was unsuitable for some of the fish in my tank. But I guess lots of ppl would just shop elsewhere if you're the only shop saying "no go home with no fish for 4-6 weeks and cycle this tank".

itiwhetu said:

Shouldn't we be aiming for low maintenance systems that require no or very little help from the outside. Isn't it better to have a few fish breeding and raising their young than fighting diseases and waiting for the next ammonia spike

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It's a closed system. Would fresh water in nature be better if there was never any rain to renew it? <rhetorical>
Of course it's good to have a developed ecosystem with plants and scavengers along with the host of beneficial bacteria. However, in the closed system of the aquarium (often over crowded with fish), the above does not eliminate the need for periodic partial water changes (where the hobbyist is the rain) and filter/tank maintenance. Also, consider that with the partial water change, in addition to replacing polluted water with fresh, we're also replenishing necessary minerals that are used by fish and plants.
Admittedly, if we had say a 55g heavily planted tank with only a half dozen neon tetras, we would only need 'intervention' say once a month. In reality, most aquariums are not heavily planted and have a much larger bio-load. So the required maintenance is relative...and for most aquariums, there's no such thing as too much fresh water.

Lynnzer said:

From the perspective of the fish if they could add something themselves, I am blown away by the suggested need to acclimate them before adding them to a tank. A couple of hours with their bag floating in the new tank can't do much for them as I see it. ...

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You don't need to float fish bags any more than 15 minutes or so to equalize the temperature. Then 'plop and drop'. It's always best not to temperature shock fish as the transition from the LFS to your tank is enough stress by itself.
As for water changes, temperatures don't need to be precise, and we often hear of claims that slightly cooler temps simulate cool rains in the wild. But here again, the refill with water close to tank water temperature is best so as not to shock the stock. Also, consider that some fish tolerate a much wider temperature range than others. Extremes in temps doing a water change just asks for trouble.

Strangely interesting if not nearly spooky, I published this in my Blog about a week ago... The Low/No Maintenance Aquarium

My first tank was a 60 liter with 12 goldfish and no filter courtesy of advice via my LFS. They're unscrupulous if you're new to the hobby.

BumblePrime said:

My first tank was a 60 liter with 12 goldfish and no filter courtesy of advice via my LFS. They're unscrupulous if your new to the hobby.

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Sure are