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Fisharoo2

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Hello Everyone!
So today I noticed that my Angelfish had a very weird looking stain on it's hind fins. As you can
see in the pic attached, It was as if it had suffered bleeding on it's fins and they became decaying. I'm especially worried that it might be Fin Rot, as it might spread to others in the tank. I don't have any medicines right now(except the standard itch medicine which I had put in the tank this Sunday and isn't going to help imo). I have not done any sort of nitrate, ammonia tests for my tank, but one thing I can tell you is that without any sweeper fish, the tank seems to get infected pretty quickly with algae (~2 weeks). The tank is about 80 litres. I have recently added 2 fishes: a small sailfin catfish(cleaner fish I believe, the one who eats algae only) and another silver fish with orange fins. Although the angelfish is behaving normally, I'm worried that it might die and as it is the longest living fish in the whole tank(almost 10 months), I sincerely hope it won't die....Please help me!
IMG_20200729_221719333.jpg
 
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First thing to point out is that one must diagnose a problem fairly accurately before any medications should go in the tank. All additives do bother fish, to varying degrees, so any that are not going to be effective for something that needs treatment are only making things worse by increasing fish stress, and stress is the direct cause of 90% of all fish disease.

So, diagnosing fish problems is not always easy, and many symptoms are the same for different issues. My first thought whenever I see fin damage is fin nippers, then water quality. What fish (species and numbers) are in this tank? How often are water changes and what volume? What additives are you using (conditioner, and any other)?

Test kits are very necessary and it is worth having a test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. The API Master Combo has these four, less expensive than buying them individually.

Algae can be simply too much light, organics, plant additives...any one or all of these. Nitrate reading would help, but algae is not the immediate issue.

Ich is best treated by raising the tank temperature to 86F/30C for two weeks. No medications, just heat. Most fish can manage this, it is not much different than summer heat waves. Ensure good circulation and surface disturbance to aid in oxygen. Do a major water change (75-80% now, to remove whatever is in there, and increase the temp a few degrees with the replacement water; then adjust the heater to go the rest.
 
I'm not seeing anything in the picture. Can you circle the area in question?

How long has this tank been set up?

Please post ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and all tankmates. If you are unsure of species, post a picture of the unknown fish.

I do not see any signs of ich.

Your tank is also too small for 2 of the fish mentioned. The angel and sailfin catfish really need bigger tanks.
 
I can see redness at the top of the dorsal fin and perhaps some loss of the fin tips. Try doing a 50% water change every day for a week and see if it improves. if it gets any worse at any point post another picture here. It is possible that your new fish introduced a pathogen.
Algae building in 2 weeks sounds normal except that tank maintenance is best done weekly. If you clean the glass, substrate and filter, with a 50% water change each week, the water quality will be better. Also the algae will be kept in check. 'Cleaner fish' will not improve water quality so tank maintenance is crucial.
 
Byron said:
First thing to point out is that one must diagnose a problem fairly accurately before any medications should go in the tank. All additives do bother fish, to varying degrees, so any that are not going to be effective for something that needs treatment are only making things worse by increasing fish stress, and stress is the direct cause of 90% of all fish disease.

So, diagnosing fish problems is not always easy, and many symptoms are the same for different issues. My first thought whenever I see fin damage is fin nippers, then water quality. What fish (species and numbers) are in this tank? How often are water changes and what volume? What additives are you using (conditioner, and any other)?

Test kits are very necessary and it is worth having a test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. The API Master Combo has these four, less expensive than buying them individually.

Algae can be simply too much light, organics, plant additives...any one or all of these. Nitrate reading would help, but algae is not the immediate issue.

Ich is best treated by raising the tank temperature to 86F/30C for two weeks. No medications, just heat. Most fish can manage this, it is not much different than summer heat waves. Ensure good circulation and surface disturbance to aid in oxygen. Do a major water change (75-80% now, to remove whatever is in there, and increase the temp a few degrees with the replacement water; then adjust the heater to go the rest.
Click to expand...
First of all, thank you all for such quick responding to my query. I'll be very honest, I have never done any sort of ph, ammonia, NH3 tests for my tank...And I don't know or recognise half of my species....
I do a full clean every 3-4 weeks, every time I see too much algae. It's been 9 months since I've bought this tank, and I regret to say that the stupid seller sold us about 11 fish for such a small tank(I'm sorry..) and about 8 of them perished in 4 months....and the 2 out of remaining 3 perished just last month.
Can I ask how can I set temperature to higher degrees, as it was presented to around 26°C.
As I said earlier, I use a blueish medicine(for ich I believe) weekly as suggested by the seller(it give a blueish tinge to the water).
I have a Goldfish, an Angelfish, a sailfin catfish(I'll attach pictures of the rest):
IMG_20200730_082325810.jpg
IMG_20200730_082257424.jpg
IMG_20200730_082243127.jpg
IMG_20200730_082217377.jpg

This picture is a little blurry, but the fishes tail fins are electric orange, if that helps.
IMG_20200729_221719333~2.jpg

I will do a 50% water change every day for a week, and see if that helps. THANK YOU!!

(Okay so I did some research and found out that the sailfin catfish is actually a scavenger fish....)
 
Oh boy. Lots of problems here to be addressed. The old owner really has set you up for failure. You should test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate right away.

You should do 50 percent or more water changes once per week. You want to remove nitrates, uneaten food, waste and all the other bad stuff on a weekly basis.

Now for stocking.... The sailfin (common pleco) grows to around 2 feet and needs a very large tank.

Then there is what seems to be a koi or goldfish. This is not a tropical fish and needs a lower temperature. Also likely needs a much larger tank.

Then there's a black skirt tetra. It's a schooling fish that should be in a group of 6 or more.

Next up we have a tinfoil barb. Another massive fish to grow over a foot long. They need a ton of swimming space. 125 gallons absolute minimum.

Then we have the angel. Also it needs a larger tank. I'm unsure if there is anything to be concerned about on its fins.
 
Metalhead88 said:
Oh boy. Lots of problems here to be addressed. The old owner really has set you up for failure. You should test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate right away.

You should do 50 percent or more water changes once per week. You want to remove nitrates, uneaten food, waste and all the other bad stuff on a weekly basis.

Now for stocking.... The sailfin (common pleco) grows to around 2 feet and needs a very large tank.

Then there is what seems to be a koi or goldfish. This is not a tropical fish and needs a lower temperature. Also likely needs a much larger tank.

Then there's a black skirt tetra. It's a schooling fish that should be in a group of 6 or more.

Next up we have a tinfoil barb. Another massive fish to grow over a foot long. They need a ton of swimming space. 125 gallons absolute minimum.

Then we have the angel. Also it needs a larger tank. I'm unsure if there is anything to be concerned about on its fins.
Click to expand...
First of all, Thank you for such a quick response, and second of all, WHAT THE HELL?!
Almost all of my fishes are incompatible with the current setup that I have, and yet they all seem to fine...
Also, I'm a little bit confused now, so am I supposed to change 50% water daily for a week and then start the 50% change per week or should I do the 50% weekly change only and not do the daily change, as my primary concern is toward my Angelfish....
I'm not exactly sure what to do now, but I did a 50% water change this morning, so I guess I'll wait for your replies....
Thank you once again...
 
Fisharoo2 said:
First of all, Thank you for such a quick response, and second of all, WHAT THE HELL?!
Almost all of my fishes are incompatible with the current setup that I have, and yet they all seem to fine...
Also, I'm a little bit confused now, so am I supposed to change 50% water daily for a week and then start the 50% change per week or should I do the 50% weekly change only and not do the daily change, as my primary concern is toward my Angelfish....
I'm not exactly sure what to do now, but I did a 50% water change this morning, so I guess I'll wait for your replies....
Thank you once again...
Click to expand...
Thing is, they're not all fine at the moment, because as you say, you've lost a lot of fish since starting the tank. That isn't a coincidence, and it's likely because of the chemistry of your water, and potentially aggression between the fish you had stocked. Large fish and species like goldfish and plecos do large poops, which pollutes the water if you're not doing regular gravel vac-ing and frequent water changes. You also need to consider the whole lifespan of the fish you get. The giant monster fish, like the tinfoil barb and the common pleco (the little sailfin pleco, another name for a common pleco, is only a tiny baby at the moment) need a huge tank as adults. They get larger and need bigger tanks than most hobbyists can or will provide. They look tempting when they're tiny juveniles, but they quickly put on size, and if they survive living in the smaller tank for a while- like if you kept doing daily water changes for the next year to keep the water liveable - they will still quickly get far too big for the tank within a year or less.

Common/sailfin plecos are a huge problem in the trade and shouldn't be sold in regular fish shops for the average person to have for the above reasons. My LFS never stocks them. They outgrow the small tanks, and people cannot find a new home for them, since most people don't want a foot plus pooping machine; the stores often won't take them back when they're that size since they can't house or sell them either, and many have been dumped in rivers and lakes because they've outgrown their tanks and the owner can't find anyone to take them, causing massive damage to non-native ecosystems. That small tank will either kill the pleco through water quality issues or stunting, or you will end up with a monster fish you can't house and can't get rid of. Much better to return the pleco while you still can, and go for a species of pleco that remains smaller like a bristlenose and save yourself a nightmare. Take a look at this video of a lake in Florida where plecos are not native, and you can see how plecos that have been dumped in there have taken over, and destroyed the lake for native species, and just how large they grow...

Your goldfish and angelfish will also quickly outgrow that tank, as well as needing different water parameters.

I also say this kindly and not to sound harsh, but you're also new to the hobby and didn't know what species most of them are, so how could you know whether they're fine, and how they would normally act? The black skirt tetra might look physically fine, but they are a species meant to live in a school, so living as the only one of his kind is very stressful for a schooling fish. When you see them swimming as a school and acting as a school, you can see the difference between whether they're fine or not.

I do say this kindly and not to try to upset you or to be harsh! The store should not have sold you any of these fish for this tank, let alone all of them! But you also didn't do your own research for the pets you wanted to get, so there's some shared responsibility there. These are living beings that don't have a choice about what living conditions we put them in, or a way out if the water is literally killing them. We have to learn about the species we want and provide as natural and healthy an environment as we can, and not just buy the ones we like without thought for their requirements over their whole lifespans.

The mistakes you've made are incredibly common for people starting out in the hobby, so you're not alone, and we can help you try to sort this out, I promise. But the reality is that some of these fish will need to be returned, and you're likely going to need a much bigger tank for the ones you want to keep. For now, do daily water changes for a week, then you might be able to switch to once a week, depending on stocking level/filtration etc by then. They'll need daily changes for now to keep them healthy. You need to start researching the species you're keeping and about the nitrogen cycle, to understand how to fix this so less frequent water changes will be needed. People here will try to help point you in the direction of good sources, and answer questions you have.
 
AdoraBelle Dearheart said:
Thing is, they're not all fine at the moment, because as you say, you've lost a lot of fish since starting the tank. That isn't a coincidence, and it's likely because of the chemistry of your water, and potentially aggression between the fish you had stocked. Large fish and species like goldfish and plecos do large poops, which pollutes the water if you're not doing regular gravel vac-ing and frequent water changes. You also need to consider the whole lifespan of the fish you get. The giant monster fish, like the tinfoil barb and the common pleco (the little sailfin pleco, another name for a common pleco, is only a tiny baby at the moment) need a huge tank as adults. They get larger and need bigger tanks than most hobbyists can or will provide. They look tempting when they're tiny juveniles, but they quickly put on size, and if they survive living in the smaller tank for a while- like if you kept doing daily water changes for the next year to keep the water liveable - they will still quickly get far too big for the tank within a year or less.

Common/sailfin plecos are a huge problem in the trade and shouldn't be sold in regular fish shops for the average person to have for the above reasons. My LFS never stocks them. They outgrow the small tanks, and people cannot find a new home for them, since most people don't want a foot plus pooping machine; the stores often won't take them back when they're that size since they can't house or sell them either, and many have been dumped in rivers and lakes because they've outgrown their tanks and the owner can't find anyone to take them, causing massive damage to non-native ecosystems. That small tank will either kill the pleco through water quality issues or stunting, or you will end up with a monster fish you can't house and can't get rid of. Much better to return the pleco while you still can, and go for a species of pleco that remains smaller like a bristlenose and save yourself a nightmare. Take a look at this video of a lake in Florida where plecos are not native, and you can see how plecos that have been dumped in there have taken over, and destroyed the lake for native species, and just how large they grow...

Your goldfish and angelfish will also quickly outgrow that tank, as well as needing different water parameters.

I also say this kindly and not to sound harsh, but you're also new to the hobby and didn't know what species most of them are, so how could you know whether they're fine, and how they would normally act? The black skirt tetra might look physically fine, but they are a species meant to live in a school, so living as the only one of his kind is very stressful for a schooling fish. When you see them swimming as a school and acting as a school, you can see the difference between whether they're fine or not.

I do say this kindly and not to try to upset you or to be harsh! The store should not have sold you any of these fish for this tank, let alone all of them! But you also didn't do your own research for the pets you wanted to get, so there's some shared responsibility there. These are living beings that don't have a choice about what living conditions we put them in, or a way out if the water is literally killing them. We have to learn about the species we want and provide as natural and healthy an environment as we can, and not just buy the ones we like without thought for their requirements over their whole lifespans.

The mistakes you've made are incredibly common for people starting out in the hobby, so you're not alone, and we can help you try to sort this out, I promise. But the reality is that some of these fish will need to be returned, and you're likely going to need a much bigger tank for the ones you want to keep. For now, do daily water changes for a week, then you might be able to switch to once a week, depending on stocking level/filtration etc by then. They'll need daily changes for now to keep them healthy. You need to start researching the species you're keeping and about the nitrogen cycle, to understand how to fix this so less frequent water changes will be needed. People here will try to help point you in the direction of good sources, and answer questions you have.
Click to expand...
Wow...
I...don't really know what to say. I definitely do not want them to die due to stunting, but I don't have enough money to buy another tank/ a bigger tank...
I suspect my pleco to be a bristlenose after doing some research, though I'm not sure...I think I will need to return some of them....Thanks for your kind suggestion, and I agree that its all my fault, I didn't research anything about the tank....
Thanks again...I'll be sure to take care now!
 
Some useful sources to start with;

Best video on the nitrogen cycle for beginners that I've found:

To read up in native habitat and aquarium requirements for the species you have, a resource written by experts and not your average hobbyist: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/
Fisharoo2 said:
Wow...
I...don't really know what to say. I definitely do not want them to die due to stunting, but I don't have enough money to buy another tank/ a bigger tank...
I suspect my pleco to be a bristlenose after doing some research, though I'm not sure...I think I will need to return some of them....Thanks for your kind suggestion, and I agree that its all my fault, I didn't research anything about the tank....
Thanks again...I'll be sure to take care now!
Click to expand...
No all your fault. If the fish store suggested these fish for your tank, it's normal and natural to trust that advice. Just some shared responsibility, since doing your own research for any pet before buying it is important. But you're accepting that and that's great! Like I said, I'm not saying that to beat up on you or make you feel badly, just so you can see how unsuitable some of these fish will be, and how some choices will need to be made so you can have long term success and healthy, thriving fish :) I want more people to be in the hobby, and to join in communities like this one, and the best way for that to happen is to help you set up your tank so it's a nice, relaxing and enjoying hobby, and not a nightmare with lots of work and fish deaths, which leads to like, 80% of people leaving the hobby within a year or so. :(

Can we help you figure out what to do next? I don't want to deal that blow, then have you go away upset and not sure what to do next. There are some very knowledgeable people here (much more so than I am!) who can help you work out what species you have, and how to get the best out of the tank you have. I'm not great and identifying pleco species and it looks like a common/sailfin pleco to me, but it can be hard to tell, especially when the pleco is a juvenile. @Fishmanic, are you able to ID the pleco, or know who is good with plecos please?

@Fisharoo2, do you know which fish you have that you'd really like to keep? I don't know whether any of these current fish could work in this size tank, but some might be possible, and there are a lot of other very lovely fish that would be lovely and very happy in a 20 gallon, with just weekly water changes. If you're very attached to the angelfish, you could look for a slightly larger second hand tank, and figure out the rest from there. Please let us help you fix this so you can enjoy your tank and do well :)
 
AdoraBelle Dearheart said:
Some useful sources to start with;

Best video on the nitrogen cycle for beginners that I've found:

To read up in native habitat and aquarium requirements for the species you have, a resource written by experts and not your average hobbyist: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/

No all your fault. If the fish store suggested these fish for your tank, it's normal and natural to trust that advice. Just some shared responsibility, since doing your own research for any pet before buying it is important. But you're accepting that and that's great! Like I said, I'm not saying that to beat up on you or make you feel badly, just so you can see how unsuitable some of these fish will be, and how some choices will need to be made so you can have long term success and healthy, thriving fish :) I want more people to be in the hobby, and to join in communities like this one, and the best way for that to happen is to help you set up your tank so it's a nice, relaxing and enjoying hobby, and not a nightmare with lots of work and fish deaths, which leads to like, 80% of people leaving the hobby within a year or so. :(

Can we help you figure out what to do next? I don't want to deal that blow, then have you go away upset and not sure what to do next. There are some very knowledgeable people here (much more so than I am!) who can help you work out what species you have, and how to get the best out of the tank you have. I'm not great and identifying pleco species and it looks like a common/sailfin pleco to me, but it can be hard to tell, especially when the pleco is a juvenile. @Fishmanic, are you able to ID the pleco, or know who is good with plecos please?

@Fisharoo2, do you know which fish you have that you'd really like to keep? I don't know whether any of these current fish could work in this size tank, but some might be possible, and there are a lot of other very lovely fish that would be lovely and very happy in a 20 gallon, with just weekly water changes. If you're very attached to the angelfish, you could look for a slightly larger second hand tank, and figure out the rest from there. Please let us help you fix this so you can enjoy your tank and do well :)
Click to expand...
I will make sure to visit the website as well as watch the video on the cycle, so thanks a lot! As for the fishes I may like to keep, I'd like neon tetras(as they're very very tiny and cute) as well as I'd like a fish, high maintenance or not, which can comply with the angel as well as live peacefully :). Thanks again!
 
Fisharoo2 said:
I will make sure to visit the website as well as watch the video on the cycle, so thanks a lot! As for the fishes I may like to keep, I'd like neon tetras(as they're very very tiny and cute) as well as I'd like a fish, high maintenance or not, which can comply with the angel as well as live peacefully :). Thanks again!
Click to expand...
You're very welcome! That sounds like a nice plan, and happy that you understand, and aren't feeling like you're under attack or anything. Kudos to you for being willing to adapt to fix things too! I'm not sure on which fish work well with an angel fish, as they can be territorial, and whether neons would work, since they can be fin-nippy, which is a risk with an angel that has those long flowing fins; but they might be just fine, I'm just not experienced with angels to know. You know how to research the fish you'd like now, so read/watch vids from a few different places, note down tank size, tank dimensions (height vs length is as important as gallons, especially with an angel fish), water parameters (gH, kH, pH), and how compatible they are with which kinds of other fish, etc. Then do the same for neons and any other fish you're considering.

The angel fish might be okay in the 20 gallon for now if it's still quite small, but they do get to be quite a large fish, so will need a bigger tank fairly soon. But it might be just fine in there for now, which would give you time to save up and look for a bigger second hand tank for him. I would hold off on getting any more fish to go in there until after you've upgraded to a bigger tank, so the bioload doesn't get too much and need a crazy amount of maintenance, and because it can be easy to buy more fish and think "this will okay for now until I get a bigger tank", but you don't notice the growth happening since you see them every day, or some crisis happens and you can't afford or find a bigger tank, etc etc.

You know that you want to keep the angel, so work towards returning or re-homing the other fish, then upgrading to a bigger tank. One with height is important for angels, and one with length is important for many schooling fish like neons, so going for the minimum tank size to keep your angel happy is a must, but if you can find say, a 40-50 gallon, you'll have a lot more options for which fish you can keep. Does that make sense?

Another important thing to get ASAP is a water testing kit. API Freshwater Master testing kit is the most accurate, and the gold standard in the hobby because of how important accurate water test results are. You need to be able to test your water parameters in order to properly cycle a new tank, to work out how often often you'll need to do water changes on your tank with your specific bioload, and especially if fish start to get sick or die, and diagnosis is essential for treatment. Once you've seen and understood that info on the nitrogen cycle, you'll see how important it is to be able to check your water for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. How hard or soft your water is will also determine the type of fish you can keep, and this info can usually be found on your local water suppliers website. Look for a water quality report, and the hardness number, pH, and kH. This video helps explain why pH, kH and gH are important to know

This is a lot of information to take in, I know, I found it overwhelming at first! But forums like this are here to help people get to grips with it all, and it gets easier once you understand the nitrogen cycle and water hardness, I promise :)
 
AdoraBelle Dearheart said:
You're very welcome! That sounds like a nice plan, and happy that you understand, and aren't feeling like you're under attack or anything. Kudos to you for being willing to adapt to fix things too! I'm not sure on which fish work well with an angel fish, as they can be territorial, and whether neons would work, since they can be fin-nippy, which is a risk with an angel that has those long flowing fins; but they might be just fine, I'm just not experienced with angels to know. You know how to research the fish you'd like now, so read/watch vids from a few different places, note down tank size, tank dimensions (height vs length is as important as gallons, especially with an angel fish), water parameters (gH, kH, pH), and how compatible they are with which kinds of other fish, etc. Then do the same for neons and any other fish you're considering.

The angel fish might be okay in the 20 gallon for now if it's still quite small, but they do get to be quite a large fish, so will need a bigger tank fairly soon. But it might be just fine in there for now, which would give you time to save up and look for a bigger second hand tank for him. I would hold off on getting any more fish to go in there until after you've upgraded to a bigger tank, so the bioload doesn't get too much and need a crazy amount of maintenance, and because it can be easy to buy more fish and think "this will okay for now until I get a bigger tank", but you don't notice the growth happening since you see them every day, or some crisis happens and you can't afford or find a bigger tank, etc etc.

You know that you want to keep the angel, so work towards returning or re-homing the other fish, then upgrading to a bigger tank. One with height is important for angels, and one with length is important for many schooling fish like neons, so going for the minimum tank size to keep your angel happy is a must, but if you can find say, a 40-50 gallon, you'll have a lot more options for which fish you can keep. Does that make sense?

Another important thing to get ASAP is a water testing kit. API Freshwater Master testing kit is the most accurate, and the gold standard in the hobby because of how important accurate water test results are. You need to be able to test your water parameters in order to properly cycle a new tank, to work out how often often you'll need to do water changes on your tank with your specific bioload, and especially if fish start to get sick or die, and diagnosis is essential for treatment. Once you've seen and understood that info on the nitrogen cycle, you'll see how important it is to be able to check your water for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. How hard or soft your water is will also determine the type of fish you can keep, and this info can usually be found on your local water suppliers website. Look for a water quality report, and the hardness number, pH, and kH. This video helps explain why pH, kH and gH are important to know

This is a lot of information to take in, I know, I found it overwhelming at first! But forums like this are here to help people get to grips with it all, and it gets easier once you understand the nitrogen cycle and water hardness, I promise :)
Click to expand...
Wow...
That IS infact a lot to take in, but anyways thanks a lot! I don't know what I'd do without your help!!
 
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