Poor flow

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mbsqw1d

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After fitting a spray bar to my APS 1400 EF+ canister filter (1400 l/hr), I can't help but think it looks like the flow is quite poor. In comparison to when I had a spray bar fitted to an internal fluval4+ (1000 l/hr) the flow is less than half. I cleaned the filter today and didn't notice much improvement. Is this just how canister filters are?
I'm using mostly alfagrog media in the canister, could that make a difference?
Thanks.
 
I have no experience with canister filters... However... if you added a more dense media to the filter, it may have slowed the flow dramatically. I see this all the time when I add a secondary sponge to my internal filters.

Also, the spray bar may be taking away from the flow of the filter. Its sort of like when two people are showering in two different showers in the same house. The showers will still work, but they won't have a high waster pressure.
 
I've had a canister filter (Polar Aurora - unbranded Sunsun HW 304 B) running on my 110g stock tank for about a year. (see Evolution of my 110g Stock Tank). It's been running great and I tear it down every week or every other week. Last Saturday I noticed that the output was only about half as much as usual. Hmm...just cleaned it a week ago. I cleaned it all out, but still low flow. Finally decided as a last resort to pull and clean the hoses. I took them outside and used a round brush on the end of a rod to ream the hose, then used the garden hose to flush them out. A LOT of sludge came out. I put it all back together and the flow was back to normal. I suspect that the 'stuff' adhering to the inside walls of the hoses, was restricting flow just enough to make the difference.
I don't know if this will help you, but before I went the extra mile to pull and clean the hoses, I was thinking there must be a motor or impeller problem when it turned out is was just 'stuff' in the lines.
 
considering I have quite a heavily planted tank (saying this, i'm not sure what is considered 'heavily'?), anyway, after reading a few comments here and there, I think I'll look at removing some of the alfagrog bio media from the filter. Ideally two things will happen - the flow will increase, and the plants should be able to feed on more ammonia before the BB gobbles it up and turns it into nitrate (I understand that plants prefer ammonia to nitrates as a nitrogen source as it is easier to assimilate?)
 
I understand that plants prefer ammonia to nitrates as a nitrogen source as it is easier to assimilate?
Plants have to turn nitrate into ammonia to be able to use it and this takes energy. If they can assimilate their nitrogen as ammonia it takes less energy for the plants. So they take up ammonia first and only turn to nitrate if they need more nitrogen and there's no ammonia left in the water.
 
is it even worth me considering replacing the canister with a sponge filter? and use a powerhead for circulation? How would anyone go about doing this? I could perhaps remove a tray from inside the canister to allow a sponge filter (sponge) to sit in there for a while to seed..
 
is it even worth me considering replacing the canister with a sponge filter? and use a powerhead for circulation? How would anyone go about doing this? I could perhaps remove a tray from inside the canister to allow a sponge filter (sponge) to sit in there for a while to seed..

No need to be seeding filters if there are live plants that are growing (i.e., not dying, lol). As far as biological filtration goes, with sufficient plants and provided the fish are not overstocked (or mis-stocked), no filter at all is perfectly fine. Note I said biological filtration; the plants do this better and faster. This is also why you can rinse filters under the tap, not fussing over buckets of dechlorinated tank water which is not really a "clean" rinsing water anyway; the bacteria in the filter are unnecessary (if there even are any, it depends).

Mechanical filtration is a very different matter; this is what keeps the water clear, and all you need for this is water moving through fine media such as a sponge, foam, or floss. This obviously occurs in the canister filter, and it would do the same with simple sponge filters or small internal filters if you want more water movement than a sponge filter will provide.

It all depends upon the fish. Fish requiring stronger currents need this, from a canister or the small internal motorized filters. I use one of these in my Corydoras tank. A Fluval Quiet Flow internal filter. It has some sort of chemical carbon stuff but I have never replaced it and after three years of use it is just collecting detritus which is what I want; I rinse it under the tap at every water change, and it traps a lot of detritus keeping the water clear, even in a 40g sand tank with 41 cories poking their snouts into the sand continually.
 
thanks @Byron - I was away from the house for a few days recently and I was worried about something going wrong with the canister - picturing a flooded room and some unhappy fish :S together with some bits I have read recently, I think I'd be okay to do without it. Oh, and compounded by the fact that it provides quite poor flow in my opinion.

I'm confident I'm not overstocked, nor will I be. This 200 litre only has 12 x peppered corys at the moment. Once I decide between black ruby and odessa barbs, I'll be fully stocked with them (and a few more corys..)

Could it be too much of a hit to just turn the canister off and then measure ammonia levels? would it be better to slowly remove bio media say a day or two at a time?
 
is it even worth me considering replacing the canister with a sponge filter? and use a powerhead for circulation? How would anyone go about doing this? I could perhaps remove a tray from inside the canister to allow a sponge filter (sponge) to sit in there for a while to seed..
Try a few more things before abandoning the canister. I had issues getting mine to work properly for the first couple of months I had it, and I hated it the thing for those months. Mine is also only a cheap little All Ponds Solution canister, but it does a great job. I gradually figured things out though, and now I love it and it's super easy, with a lot of filtering power. You could always run a sponge filter at the same time while you're working on it, my tank has a canister and a sponge.

Mistakes I made that you don't have to!
1. I covered the intake with a sponge to protect guppy fry, the sponge I bought was too dense and ill fitting, and slowed my output a lot. Decided to cut the netting part from an old fish net to cover it instead, held on with a rubber band, and this clogged up with bits of plant debris often, and slowed my output. Spent weeks taking the damn intake out of the tank every few days to wash the stupid net and replace, before my stupid brain finally woke up and realised it was quite a fine net I'd been using, and replaced it with a wider mesh net. Intake clogging problems solved.

Output also slows a lot when spray bar holes get filled with algae. Sometimes the bar on mine is directly in the water, and algae grows really thick in there and can block the water completely. Also agree that the tubing collects a shocking amount of gak. So to maintain the filter, I rinse my media in old tank water or conditioned tap water once every two or three weeks, and rinse and wipe the canister itself. (remember to turn off intake valve if you have one before unplugging and messing with the canister. You don't make that mistake twice). About once every month or two, I take the whole thing apart, leave media in the bucket of tank water I pulled from the tank. Clean the spray bar with a bottle brush, and use a needle to scrape the algae coating from the inside of the holes. Take all the tubing to a safe area for messy cleaning, and use one of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08DCZGC31/?tag= (there are cheaper ones there somewhere, this is just an example pic)
to clean all the gak out of the tubing. Rinse tubing and all connected bits in tap water to get it properly clean, then in declorinated water. Re-assemble, fill canister with tank water or conditioned tap water, plug back in and open intake valve. Lift canister above the level of the tank and let the air bubbles come through, and done.

You could always remove the media you're concerned about and try running it, see if the output improves.
 
(remember to turn off intake valve if you have one before unplugging and messing with the canister. You don't make that mistake twice).

lol (sorry).. this is the first canister I've had - I don't know if I would've sought to buy one, this just happen to come with the tank - and they just freak me out a bit. I'm not sure what it is - probably just the simple fact that they're external! and if anything should go wrong then its going to be pretty devastating.

Lift canister above the level of the tank and let the air bubbles come through, and done.

cool, haven't heard that tip before

I'm just not sure now - I've gone and educated myself a tiny bit and now there's a load of options I wasn't aware of. Nor did I realise that the BB could actually be doing my plants a disservice. More reading to be done I think!
 
lol (sorry).. this is the first canister I've had - I don't know if I would've sought to buy one, this just happen to come with the tank - and they just freak me out a bit. I'm not sure what it is - probably just the simple fact that they're external! and if anything should go wrong then its going to be pretty devastating.



cool, haven't heard that tip before

I'm just not sure now - I've gone and educated myself a tiny bit and now there's a load of options I wasn't aware of. Nor did I realise that the BB could actually be doing my plants a disservice. More reading to be done I think!
LOL no need to be sorry! I like my canister, but not personally offended if you hate them:lol: or decide they aren't for you! You've just been so helpful to me, I wanted to share what I'd gone through with getting my first one in case any of if helped. If nothing else, it proves that pigeons learn faster than I do.

I haven't looked into no filter tanks. Have a lot to learn already, so will hold off on that, and just let you do the hard research, then ask you for the run down. :D I hadn't heard that BB could be doing the plants a disservice either. So much to learn.
 
A photo of the entire tank so I can see the plant load would help me give you a more definitive answer. And, a video of the flow would help me advise if it is/is not enough, given the fish/plants. But in the interim...

This is a 200 liter (52 gallon) tank, and I assume the length is 3 feet? Or is it 4 feet? Whichever, considering the fish and there are plants, my aim for a filter would be the Aqueon Quiet Flow rated for a 40g. I have this on my 40g now with the cories, but before I moved I was using it on my 70g (48 by 18 inch surface) and it was more than adequate for the purpose. This is the filter.

In my last post I mistakenly called it Fluval, it is Aqueon. They are very inexpensive, but this filter puts out a good flow. I have mine running down the back wall so it then hits the end wall and returns across the front but not even noticeable. Ideal for plants and fish not requiring a raging rapids.
 

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LOL no need to be sorry! I like my canister, but not personally offended if you hate them:lol: or decide they aren't for you! You've just been so helpful to me, I wanted to share what I'd gone through with getting my first one in case any of if helped. If nothing else, it proves that pigeons learn faster than I do.

I haven't looked into no filter tanks. Have a lot to learn already, so will hold off on that, and just let you do the hard research, then ask you for the run down. :D I hadn't heard that BB could be doing the plants a disservice either. So much to learn.
much appreciated - especially the fact you have the same make - my mind seems fixed about getting rid of it though haha There's plenty knowledge I'll picking from your brains don't you worry. And yeh, I'll get up to speed on this planted vs bacterial filtration matter :book:
 
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A photo of the entire tank so I can see the plant load would help me give you a more definitive answer. And, a video of the flow would help me advise if it is/is not enough, given the fish/plants. But in the interim...

This is a 200 liter (52 gallon) tank, and I assume the length is 3 feet? Or is it 4 feet? Whichever, considering the fish and there are plants, my aim for a filter would be the Aqueon Quiet Flow rated for a 40g. I have this on my 40g now with the cories, but before I moved I was using it on my 70g (48 by 18 inch surface) and it was more than adequate for the purpose. This is the filter.

In my last post I mistakenly called it Fluval, it is Aqueon. They are very inexpensive, but this filter puts out a good flow. I have mine running down the back wall so it then hits the end wall and returns across the front but not even noticeable. Ideal for plants and fish not requiring a raging rapids.
IMG_20200722_161304.jpg

Its still early days with most of the plants other than the Anacharis (not present in the planned final 'scape') and Vallis, however all appear to be growing as opposed to dying! I'm slightly annoyed with myself for purchasing a rather large bottle of TNC complete, when the Lite would've been a better option, ah well!
Due to how I would like the Vallis to form a canopy from back to front, I picked up a spray bar, and if I do replace the canister, I believe I would like to stick with a spray bar.
This is a very short video of how it currently flows from out of said spray bar. As I've said previously, when I had a spray bar on a fluval 4+, it was far more impressive than this (btw, brand new spray bar, so no chance of it being gunked up)
 

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