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Emergency with Female Guppy

Silvermist80

Silvermist80

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Hi all,

Request Help with sick Guppy

Tank size: Hospital Tank, 3 gallons, Normal home is 10 gallons
pH: 7.2
tank temp: 78F, preset mini heater

Fish Symptoms: This one is tough. I was treating all of my guppies and all tanks for internal parasites with a week long treatment of General Cure. I had a tuxedo red female Guppy with swollen anus, swollen body, and not eating. Treated her with the General Cure and moved her back into her 10 gallon after treatment and she swelled up huge with what I assume was Dropsy. Lost her quickly despite trying to treat with antibiotics. Week later my red female Guppy started with same symptoms. Immediately separated her and have her in a salt bath in the hospital tank and did 48 hours of Erythromycin in the water. Also soaked food in Erythromycin, been feeding her treated food past 3 days. Did water change last night of 50%, increased amount of salt. She keeps showing improvement when salt is added and after a water change, but goes back to being very swollen soon after. Now she has an odd part on her that is bumped up, see pics

Volume and Frequency of water changes:
50% last night, every other day

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: Salt and Erythromycin for 48 hours, Erythromycin soaked food. Feeding her high protein foods of thawed frozen brine shrimp and thawed frozen bloodworms. Small amount of gravel and some plants
 

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What are the actual symptoms, she is fat but what else?

Is she eating?
What does her poop look like?
What is the ammonia, nitrite & nitrate level in the tank?
What is the pH and GH of the water?

---------------------
The fish looks like it has a hernia (bit sticking out of the belly), and possible dropsy (scales sticking out form the body).

There's not really any cure for either of these conditions.
 
Colin_T said:
What are the actual symptoms, she is fat but what else?

Is she eating?
What does her poop look like?
What is the ammonia, nitrite & nitrate level in the tank?
What is the pH and GH of the water?

---------------------
The fish looks like it has a hernia (bit sticking out of the belly), and possible dropsy (scales sticking out form the body).

There's not really any cure for either of these conditions.
Click to expand...

She's eating, ravenously actually. I ran out of testing strips, supplies have been harder to get with COVID going on. Hopefully can get those numbers tomorrow if I'm able to find some testing supplies. It is a cycled hospital tank, as is her home. My water here runs hard and alkaline. There was some odd stuff on one of the plants, but was so odd looking I wasn't sure if it was an uneaten bloodworm or her poop. Haven't seen any coming out of her in quite awhile. I agree with maybe Dropsy, but her scales aren't sticking out. She does have the swelling go down at times just to swell back up. I think the other one definitely had Dropsy, but I'm a bit more puzzled with this one.
 
Was her poop coloured or white?

--------------------
In this picture the scales under her belly are sticking out a bit. However, if she is eating well and pooping normally, then it's unlikely to be an internal bacterial infection.

The swelling going down and up could be water being drawn into her abdomen via osmosis. This could happen if you add salt to the tank and then do a big water change using fresh water without any salt.
 
Colin_T said:
Was her poop coloured or white?

--------------------
In this picture the scales under her belly are sticking out a bit. However, if she is eating well and pooping normally, then it's unlikely to be an internal bacterial infection.

The swelling going down and up could be water being drawn into her abdomen via osmosis. This could happen if you add salt to the tank and then do a big water change using fresh water without any salt.
Click to expand...

So her poop was normal colored before she swelled up like a balloon. If the odd looking stuff in the tank is her poop, it's white now. She just got that odd part on her side today. I thought maybe a parasite, but doubtful with the salt. I agree the salt is helping to pull some of the fluid out of her at the time I put it in, but not sure why she swells back up again. I keep trying to search for fish diseases and this one has me stumped. I haven't a clue how to treat her, but maybe I'm doing something right cause she's still alive?
 
White poop is an indication of an internal problem, either internal bacterial or protozoan infection, or intestinal worms (tapeworm or round worms). If the fish is eating well and doing a white poop, it is probably worms.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons.
1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be cured because massive internal organ failure has already occurred.

-----
2) Internal Protozoan Infections cause the fish to lose weight rapidly (over a week or two), fish continues to eat and swim around but not as much as normal, does stringy white poop. If not treated the fish dies a week or so after these symptoms appear. Metronidazole normally works well for this.
There is a medication (API General Cure) that contains Praziquantel and Metronidazole.

It's interesting that API and the Californian government have listed Metronidazole as a carcinogen. That's a concern considering it was widely used to treat intestinal infections in people.

Anyway, if you use this or any medication, handle with care, don't inhale the medication, and wash hands with soapy water after treating the fish or working in the tank.

-----
3) Intestinal Worms like tapeworm and threadworms cause the fish to lose weight, continue eating and swimming normally, and do a stringy white poop. Fish can do this for months and not be too badly affected. In some cases, fish with a bad worm infestation will actually gain weight and get fat and look like a pregnant guppy. This is due to the huge number of worms inside the fish.
Livebearers like guppies, mollies, swordtails & platies are regularly infected with gill flukes and intestinal worms. If the fish are still eating well, then worms is the most likely cause.

You can use Praziquantel to treat tapeworm and gill flukes. And Levamisole to treat thread/ round worms. If you can't find these medications, look for Flubendazole, which treats both lots of worms.

Remove carbon from filters before treatment and increase aeration/ surface turbulence to maximise oxygen levels in the water.

You treat the fish once a week for 4 weeks. The first treatment will kill any worms in the fish. The second, third and forth treatments kill any baby worms that hatch from eggs inside the fish's digestive tract.

Treat every fish tank in the house at the same time to prevent cross contamination.

You do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean 24-48 hours after treatment. Clean the filter 24 hours after treatment too.

Do not use the 2 medications together. If you want to treat both medications in a short space of time, use Praziquantel on day one. Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate on day 2 & 3. Treat the tank with Levamisole on day 4 and do a 75% water change and gravel clean on day 5, 6 & 7 and then start with Praziquantel again on day 8.

The water changes will remove most of the medication so you don't overdose the fish the next time you treat them. The gravel cleaning will suck out any worms and eggs that have been expelled by the fish. Repeating the treatment for 3-4 doses at weekly intervals will kill any worms that hatch from eggs. At the end of the treatment you will have healthier fish.
 
Colin_T said:
White poop is an indication of an internal problem, either internal bacterial or protozoan infection, or intestinal worms (tapeworm or round worms). If the fish is eating well and doing a white poop, it is probably worms.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons.
1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be cured because massive internal organ failure has already occurred.

-----
2) Internal Protozoan Infections cause the fish to lose weight rapidly (over a week or two), fish continues to eat and swim around but not as much as normal, does stringy white poop. If not treated the fish dies a week or so after these symptoms appear. Metronidazole normally works well for this.
There is a medication (API General Cure) that contains Praziquantel and Metronidazole.

It's interesting that API and the Californian government have listed Metronidazole as a carcinogen. That's a concern considering it was widely used to treat intestinal infections in people.

Anyway, if you use this or any medication, handle with care, don't inhale the medication, and wash hands with soapy water after treating the fish or working in the tank.

-----
3) Intestinal Worms like tapeworm and threadworms cause the fish to lose weight, continue eating and swimming normally, and do a stringy white poop. Fish can do this for months and not be too badly affected. In some cases, fish with a bad worm infestation will actually gain weight and get fat and look like a pregnant guppy. This is due to the huge number of worms inside the fish.
Livebearers like guppies, mollies, swordtails & platies are regularly infected with gill flukes and intestinal worms. If the fish are still eating well, then worms is the most likely cause.

You can use Praziquantel to treat tapeworm and gill flukes. And Levamisole to treat thread/ round worms. If you can't find these medications, look for Flubendazole, which treats both lots of worms.

Remove carbon from filters before treatment and increase aeration/ surface turbulence to maximise oxygen levels in the water.

You treat the fish once a week for 4 weeks. The first treatment will kill any worms in the fish. The second, third and forth treatments kill any baby worms that hatch from eggs inside the fish's digestive tract.

Treat every fish tank in the house at the same time to prevent cross contamination.

You do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean 24-48 hours after treatment. Clean the filter 24 hours after treatment too.

Do not use the 2 medications together. If you want to treat both medications in a short space of time, use Praziquantel on day one. Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate on day 2 & 3. Treat the tank with Levamisole on day 4 and do a 75% water change and gravel clean on day 5, 6 & 7 and then start with Praziquantel again on day 8.

The water changes will remove most of the medication so you don't overdose the fish the next time you treat them. The gravel cleaning will suck out any worms and eggs that have been expelled by the fish. Repeating the treatment for 3-4 doses at weekly intervals will kill any worms that hatch from eggs. At the end of the treatment you will have healthier fish.
Click to expand...

That's very helpful, now I just have to figure out which of the three. It's not stringy and white, just kinda thick and white. She was treated for 7 days with General Cure previously. I'll see if I can find more info on her condition tomorrow. Thank you.
 
It's unlikely to an internal bacterial infection because the fish is eating well and this has been going on for more than a few days. Internal bacterial infections cause the fish to stop eating and swell up very quickly (overnight), and the fish normally die within 24-48 hours of swelling up.

It's unlikely to be an internal protozoan infection because you used Metronidazole and that is the medication normally used to treat internal protozoan infections. In addition to that, fish with internal protozoan infections lose weight over a couple of weeks. Your fish is not losing weight.

This leaves you with intestinal worms. API General Cure contains Metronidazole and Praziquantel. Metronidazole treats internal protozoan infection but Praziquantel treats tapeworm so you can rule out an adult tapeworm because that should be dead. This leaves us with threadworms, which need to be treated with Levamisole or Flubendazole.
 
Sounds worth a try. I know the pet stores don't carry that particular medicine, so I'll have to browse good ol' Amazon. Today she's lot more lethargic, she likes resting on the plants. What is very puzzling is that the spot on her side with the white thing coming out is worse. I'm a trained vet tech, so I know anatomy, if not real experience on fish... bit if it's a hernia, no idea what it'd be. Any ideas?
 

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