Amazon sword sprout growing out of water and land grass growing under water

Salty&Onion

Fish Aficionado
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Messages
3,162
Reaction score
2,112
Location
Bristol, UK
Here is my enchidorus bleheri sprout growing out of water..
What should I do with that thing?:

image.jpg


And I have been lucky enough for land grass growing successfully underwater!
How should I prepare the grass to put it in my tank? I would love to have it in my tank.

image.jpg
 
The sword is actually Echinodorus grisebachii, the "bleheri" variety. Not that that matters, but I have a thing about taxonomy and like to get the species correct so everyone knows exactly what one is talking about. :good:

The inflorescence will grow submersed or (as here) emersed if it finds an opening. It will not flower (it would if the parent plant were growing emersed as in a marsh or bog) but adventitious plants will appear along the stem, two from every node. If memory serves me correctly, the last time I allowed an inflorescence of this species to grow out of the water the adventitious plants did not develop, presumably because they lacked the support of the water. Grown emersed, the inflorescence would grow along the ground and the adventitious plants could easily root. You can let it grow emersed and see, you might have different luck. But the adventitious plants developing submersed lower down will continue to do so, and you can leave them for one effect, or remove some of them as new sword plants once they have several leaves about 2-3 inches and white roots about 1-2 inches. If the plants are left on the inflorescence I have always found the ones closer to the surface (light) get encrusted with black brush algae. Leaves of plants grown emersed will be different from those on plants growing submersed, as they have different roles to play with respect to preserving moisture and the exchange of nutrients.

As for the grass, if memory again serves me correctly, I would not grow this in an aquarium. It will not grow permanently submersed, because the leaves here function differently, just as in emersed/submersed Echinodorus cultivation. The grass will rot and that can be a real mess. Leave it in the jar and see how long it lasts perhaps.
 
I thought it might be of interest to show an inflorescence in flower. The only species that will develop flowers along the inflorescence when the parent plant is grown submersed is Echinodorus major. I had two plants of this species for over a decade, and one of them (same or different, not sure) flowered three times. The first of the attached photos is the last time this happened (March 2019), showing the typical Echinodorus-type flowers (each species' flower is different, but they are all a form of small white flowers). As you can see I allowed this inflorescence to grow out of the tank just for interest to see what it would do. The flowers lasted several days each, and seeds developed. The second and third photos are of flowers developed in 2017.
 

Attachments

  • E. major flowers March 2019 (1).JPG
    E. major flowers March 2019 (1).JPG
    513.7 KB · Views: 358
  • E. major flower April 30-17 (2).JPG
    E. major flower April 30-17 (2).JPG
    413.9 KB · Views: 129
  • E. major flower April 30-17 (3).JPG
    E. major flower April 30-17 (3).JPG
    560.4 KB · Views: 146
So should I let the sprout grow out of water and see what happens? It seems like I've got two sprouts so I'll grow one outside the water and one submerged and just see. Really interesting, never saw this before in aquatic plants except my anubias heterophylla that used to be Candy's most favorite plant, grew a leaf above water surface.
I'll give some updates in some time :good:

So this 'bleheri' is enchidorus grisebachii actually?
This little thing says its enchidorus bleheri for some reason..:

image.jpg


Or it does not show its scietific name?

As for the grass, it was brought into the jar as a seed and some days ago it just started sprouting and now it just grows underwater..
I'll see how it goes, if its not gonna become a mess, I'll put it in my tank.
Exciting! :shout:
 
I love it when members give me an opening like this to explain species...:drinks: I will just cut/paste from a profile of this species I wrote several years ago for another site (it's also a forum and we don't link to other forums). As will be explained, the "species" Echinodorus bleherae is now synonymous with E. grisebachii.

Echinodorus grisebachii

Family:
Alismataceae

Synonyms:
Echinodorus amazonicus
Echinodorus amazonicus
var. parviflorus
Echinodorus amphibius
Echinodorus bleherae
Echinodorus eglandulosus
Echinodorus gracilis
Echinodorus grisebachii
var. minor
Echinodorus parviflorus


Common Name: Amazon Sword

Origin and Habitat: From Central America and Cuba down through South America to southern Brazil. Occurs in floodplains, palm swamps, rivers and creeks.

Lighting requirements: Moderate; grows well in diffused light. May manage in lower light.

Growth rate: Medium

Minimum Tank Suggestion: See description

Water parameters

Soft to slightly hard (hardness to 15 dGH, but if less than 4 dGH calcium supplementation will likely be necessary), acidic to slightly basic (pH 5 to 7.5) water, temperature 24-28C/75-82F. The “amazonicus” variety is less tolerant of hard water than the “bleherae” variety.

Description (for the “Bleherae” variety)

One of the most common aquarium species of sword plants and one of the most hardy and beautiful. Mid-green leaves numbering anywhere up to 30 arise from the crown and grow out in a fan formation to a length of up to 50 cm (20 inches) or more with the blade lanceolate and acute at both ends. Will often grow to the surface, so in larger tanks the plant will generally develop much larger in height if provided with adequate fertilization. A deep substrate is needed (minimum 3-4 inches); the root system is large, and will spread vertically and horizontally through the substrate far from the plant.

Echinodorus plants are heavy feeders, and in most aquaria will require regular fertilization with a comprehensive liquid fertilizer; adding substrate fertilization (root tabs) is extremely beneficial for stronger growth and larger development. If the leaves develop yellowing or transparent patches, it is a sign of insufficient nutrients. A balanced comprehensive fertilizer will ensure adequate nutrient supply in most cases, and comprehensive substrate tabs are highly recommended. In very soft water (less than 4 dGH) a calcium deficiency will often occur, resulting in excess iron deposits appearing as brown patches on the leaves; these will increase until the leaf and then the plant dies. The substrate tabs and liquid comprehensive fertilizer will resolve this problem.

E. grisebachii will produce an inflorescence (flower stalk), sometimes two or three at the same time and up to six or seven each year, which grow to the surface and above. Flowers will not appear unless the plant is grown emersed as a bog plant, but adventitious plants will develop from each node, two per node. This species does not send out substrate runners. The adventitious plants may be detached as new young plants once they develop sufficient roots and leaves, usually within 2-3 months.

As with the majority of species in this genus, E. grisebachii is a bog (marsh) plant in nature, spending half the year emersed (during which it flowers) and half submersed. The “bleherae” variant prefers to grow submersed and therefore adapts well to fully-submersed conditions and is thus an excellent aquarium plant. Aquatic leaves will be quite different from emersed leaves, in shape, size and texture. Newly-purchased plants have often been propagated emersed by nurseries and when grown in the aquarium the developing submersed leaves will be different from those on the plant at purchase, and the older leaves will yellow and should then be removed.

This plant was originally described as a distinct species, Echinodorus bleheri (Rataj, 1970), and the name was subsequently corrected by Dr. Rataj to E. bleherae (the feminine gender); it was named in honour of Amanda Bleher who first exported it from Brazil over 40 years ago. As will be explained below, this is no longer deemed to be a distinct species botanically.

Discussion

Some of the most beautiful and useful plants for the tropical aquarium are found among the Echinodorus, a genus distributed in the tropical and sub-tropical regions of the Americas from the lower United States down to Argentina; the two "African" species of Rataj are erroneous (Kasselmann, 2003; Lehtonen 2008). Echinodorus derives from the Greek echinos [hedgehog] and doros [pipe or hose] referring to the spiny fruit. The English common name of "sword plant" comes from the general lanceolate shape of the leaf of most species and is generally used for all plants in this genus although other non-Echinodorus plants may sometimes appear under the name "sword."

Larger-sized species have a rhizome, whereas smaller species are stoloniferous. All species are perennial or annual aquatic or marsh plants found in boggy flood areas or along the banks of stagnant or slow-flowing waters. Except for the very few species that are permanently submersed, Echinodorus plants spend half the year emersed (when they flower) and the remainder submersed during the flood season. Leaves arise in a rosette and can be very variable not only between emersed and submersed forms but also when cultivated under different conditions. Correct identification often requires study of the flower. Inflorescences (flower stalks) are formed in all species; when grown permanently submersed in the aquarium most species will not flower but adventitious plants (daughter plants) will develop from the nodes on the inflorescence, two per node.

Confusion has existed for the past few decades over the number of species in the genus Echinodorus, and many have been known under different names. In his earlier study of the genus, Rataj (1975) listed 47 species. A major revision by the botanists R.R. Haynes and L.B. Holm-Nielsen (1994) listed 26 species. In his 2004 revision, Rataj increased the number of species to 62. More recent work by Samuli Lehtonen—incorporating phylogenetic (DNA) analysis—proposed 28 valid species (Lehtonen, 2007). As of 2013, The Plant List and the World Checklist of Selected Plant Families (maintained by Kew) have 30 distinct species listed for Echinodorus.

Haynes & Holm-Nielsen (1994) considered the species E. bleherae, E. amazonicus and E. parviflorus to be conspecific [the same species] with E. grisebachii. Kasselmann (2002) suggested that the different habitus of the submersed plants between these three "species" is reason to retain the present names in the hobby. But Lehtonen's extensive phylogenetic analysis (2006) basically supports the findings of Haynes & Holm-Nielsen, with a few changes, and this classification is now accepted. The synonyms listed above are the former “species” that are now deemed to be within the one polymorphic species E. grisebachii. Differences in appearance between these plants are apparent and seem dependent on the specific environment in the aquarium; this seems likely to also occur in nature, what can be termed transitional forms of the species. But the limited genetic variation within the complex is insufficient to establish reasonable groupings (Lehtonen & Falck, 2011).

This species epithet grisebachii takes precedence over the others under the rules of the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature because it was the first name assigned to the species, and this was by the American botanist J.K. Small in 1909; the name honours the German botanist H.R.A. Grisebach (1814-1879).

References:

Haynes, R.R. and L.B. Holm-Nielsen (1994), "The Alismataceae," Flora Neotropica, Vol. 64, pp. 1-112.

Kasselmann, Christel (2002), Aquarium Plants [English language edition, translated by Ulf Kotlenga].

Lehtonen, Samuli (2006), "Phylogenetics of Echinodorus (Alismataceae) based on morphological data," Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society, 150, pp. 291-305.

Lehtonen, Samuli (2008), "An integrative approach to species delimitation in Echinodorus (Alismataceae) and the description of two new species," Kew Bulletin Vol. 63, No. 4, pp. 525-563.

Lehtonen, Samuli and Daniel Falck (2011), “Watery Varieties: Aquarium Plant Diversity From Aesthetic, Commercial, and Systematic Perspectives,” in Ornamental Plants: Types, Cultivation and Nutrition, ISBN 978-1-61761-736-2, online: http://www.isentio.com/downloads/Lehtonen_from_Ornamental_FP.pdf

Lehtonen, Samuli and Leena Myllys (2008), "Cladistic analysis of Echinodorus (Alismataceae): simultaneous analysis of molecular and morphological data," Cladistics, Vol. 24, No. 2 (April 2008), pp. 218-239.

The Plant List, 2013, Version 1.1, published on the Internet: http://www.theplantlist.org/
 
Thank you @Byron , this helps a lot ^_^

I also have enchidorus spectra that looks quite iffy, I did give it root tabs but it still looks iffy.
Sorry about the fish there, but I can't get them off the begging:

image.jpg
 
Echinodorus "spectra" is a cultivar, not a natural plant, but I cannot find references as to which species may have been involved, nor which nursery developed it. I did find some info on this site that may be helpful re cultivation:

I know nothing about the site, other than it is in the UK I think...but they do correctly consider "Bleherae" to be Echinodorus grisebachii 'bleherae.'
 
Thank you @Byron , I really don't want to bother you so much.
My anubias nana (I think) it lost its leaves and kind of melted away since I attached it to my driftwood:

image.jpg
 
About the spectra one, mine has multiple colours, but its got wavy leaves and not the shape its supposed to have is that I'm the most concerned about.
 
About the spectra one, mine has multiple colours, but its got wavy leaves and not the shape its supposed to have is that I'm the most concerned about.

All Echinodorus can vary in size and appearance depending upon conditions of light and nutrients. I wrote in another thread last week that I acquired a couple of E. bleherae (as they then were known) back in the 1990's and over the years kept several of the adventitious plants. In spite of being off the same parent, they grew differently depending upon the tank height, light, and probably nutrients. So long as they grew, I didn't care. The differences among the varieties are much the same.
 

Most reactions

Back
Top