Is this piece of equipment useful (TAP120)

maxxal22 · May 23, 2020

Hi everybody,

I saw this piece of equipment, a Philips TAP120, on discount near me. As I am not familiar with this kind of stuff, I was wondering if you could tell me if it is good to have.

Essjay · May 23, 2020

Google says it's an ozone generator. Ozone is poisonous to fish, inverts - and us. If you decide to get one, you must keep a check on how much is in the water, which means more equipment to test the oxidation-reduction potential.

It's basically a steriliser, an alternative to UV lamps. Personally I wouldn't bother.

Lajos_Detari · May 23, 2020

I agree with Essjay.

Some people believe that ozone is supposed to kill germs/bacteria, etc.
In fact, some air purifiers have this "ozone function" to purify the air in the room.

But I read from some sources(internet) that ozone level is hard to control and there is no real proof that ozone will actually kill the bacteria.
And if the ozone is not controlled properly, there are dangers that this device will emit/leak out ozone to the environment where the device is being placed.
Your fish and yourself will be exposed to ozone which can cause serious health issues.

And if I am not wrong, the ozone device (in air purifier) is banned in some states in the US.

ChefAlex · May 23, 2020

maxaal22,

That particular ozone generator is very safe for your aquarium. It produces about 0.0005g of 03 per hour, a minuscule amount. A mass marketed product, particularly by a name like Philips, wouldn’t be made available to the public if it were a high risk to easily endanger the user. That being said, it’s probably not effective for your aquarium by any measurable amount given how low the 03 production is.

Ozonators have a dubious record by hobbyists for a number of reasons, and rightfully so. They are though, absolutely effective, when used correctly. The technology and proper administration of such is best kept to advanced reef keepers with large systems, public aquariums, water treatment facilities and recirculating aquaculture.

Lajos_Detari · May 23, 2020

ChefAlex said:
maxaal22,

That particular ozone generator is very safe for your aquarium. It produces about 0.0005g of 03 per hour, a minuscule amount. A mass marketed product, particularly by a name like Philips, wouldn’t be made available to the public if it were a high risk to easily endanger the user. That being said, it’s probably not effective for your aquarium by any measurable amount given how low the 03 production is.

Ozonators have a dubious record by hobbyists for a number of reasons, and rightfully so. They are though, absolutely effective, when used correctly. The technology and proper administration of such is best kept to advanced reef keepers with large systems, public aquariums, water treatment facilities and recirculating aquaculture.

Take note that big reputable company doesn't necessarily guarantee a 100% safety based on my experience in designing of electronic products.

I'm currently working as a product safety engineer for one of the top five companies in the world.
Previously, I was a design engineer for two big Japanese companies.
I have friends who worked in Philips and they don't have good impression of Philips products.
I also have friends who are working in UL, CSA who told me the same thing.

I guess you had heard of the safety failures with one of the major mobile phone manufacturer. (I will not name it here). And it affected not just one model but a few.
And it also happened to their other products such as washing machine, etc.

Anyway, I have great respect for Japanese manufacturers which have very good ethics and honesty in their works.

ChefAlex · May 23, 2020

Lajos_Detari said:
Take note that big reputable company doesn't necessarily guarantee a 100% safety based on my experience in designing of electronic products.

I'm currently working as a product safety engineer for one of the top five companies in the world.
Previously, I was a design engineer for two big Japanese companies.
I have friends who worked in Philips and they don't have good impression of Philips products.

I guess you had heard of the safety failures with one of the major mobile manufacturer. (I will not name it here). And it affected not just one model but a few.
And it also happened to their other products such as washing machine, etc.

Anyway, I still have great respect for Japanese manufacturers which have very good ethics and honesty in their works.

Of course not, no product anywhere is 100% safe. I think a lot of things we use for aquaria in regards to safety could be looked at more subjectively. The siliconed aquarium itself, any submersible electronic, pressurized c02, chemical additives, they all can pose a risk for misuse and or failure.

I still think the ozone generator in question is overwhelmingly safe though. I am not an expert on the corona discharge mechanism or the application of such in retail products, but given that the unit can only produce 0.0005g of 03 per hour, I would say that even if something went horribly wrong, the likelihood of creating a dangerous 03 level would be extremely low at current recommendations by OSHA for 03 levels (0.05ppm at 8 hours for strenuous labor). While there are many variables to that equation, and some unique to each specific user, chemical interactions for example, I still don’t see much risk. Especially, when viewed in comparison to all of the potential sources of danger in a home aquarium. Of course, I could be off target as well, I’m curious as to what your thoughts are on this particular product given your background?

That being said, the correlation between 03 and human health clearly needs to be researched more. Simply finding data for ozone exposure in residences is unclear. That’s a whole other subject

Lajos_Detari · May 25, 2020

ChefAlex said:
Of course not, no product anywhere is 100% safe. I think a lot of things we use for aquaria in regards to safety could be looked at more subjectively. The siliconed aquarium itself, any submersible electronic, pressurized c02, chemical additives, they all can pose a risk for misuse and or failure.

I still think the ozone generator in question is overwhelmingly safe though. I am not an expert on the corona discharge mechanism or the application of such in retail products, but given that the unit can only produce 0.0005g of 03 per hour, I would say that even if something went horribly wrong, the likelihood of creating a dangerous 03 level would be extremely low at current recommendations by OSHA for 03 levels (0.05ppm at 8 hours for strenuous labor). While there are many variables to that equation, and some unique to each specific user, chemical interactions for example, I still don’t see much risk. Especially, when viewed in comparison to all of the potential sources of danger in a home aquarium. Of course, I could be off target as well, I’m curious as to what your thoughts are on this particular product given your background?

That being said, the correlation between 03 and human health clearly needs to be researched more. Simply finding data for ozone exposure in residences is unclear. That’s a whole other subject

Sorry, I'm not an expert in the area of ozone generating device.
My experience is in industrial products, IT equipment and audio/video products.

However, I think the device is ok to be used since you mentioned that the level of ozone produced by the device is very low.
But if you want to double confirm, then you may need to do more research into this area and to find out what is the safe level for human(as what you mentioned).

By the way, I noticed that there isn't any safety logo on the box of this device.
I wonder is there any safety requirements from the government/industry for this kind of device.
Some safety requirements are more driven by the consumers and not by the government as they are not mandatory.

If you watch the second video comments posted under the video, it says that the device only last 2-3 years as the components inside will break down...Quite a short lifespan...

Here are some information on ozone generator though I'm not sure about the accuracy of the information given by the presenter.

Probably this might provide more information:

Ozone Generator | Water & Environmental Solutions | Social Systems | Toshiba Infrastructure Systems & Solutions Corporation

Toshiba's ozone generator realized higher ozone concentration, higher efficiency and space saving by using electric discharge tubes with small diameters. We also achieved longer service life and higher reliability by using heat and voltage resistant ...

www.toshiba.co.jp

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Is this piece of equipment useful (TAP120)

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Ozone Generator | Water & Environmental Solutions | Social Systems | Toshiba Infrastructure Systems & Solutions Corporation

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