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Think I'm Losing a Panda

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PCat

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He is just lying there (far right) while all of the others zip around at feeding time. He doesn't even move when bumped by the other fish. Just bought two new Nerites on Saturday. I hope they didn't bring anything into the tank. I don't have a quarantine setup. His color looks dark too.

Tank size: 15 ga
pH: 7.6
ammonia: .25 ppm
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 0
kH: ? (hard water)
gH: ? (hard water)
tank temp: 73

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): Not eating and just lays there. Looks a bit darker and sad. :(

Volume and Frequency of water changes: 20 to 30% daily (conditioned tap). Tank has been up for about 6 weeks.

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: 5 drops of Flourish weekly, 3ml Top Fin water conditioner daily, course and fine filter media, carbon, and 1lb Biohome in Cascade 500 (115 gph) canister.

Tank inhabitants: 8 Pandas and 3 Nerites

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): 2 Netrites on Saturday.

Exposure to chemicals: 3ml Top Fin water conditioner daily

Digital photo (include if possible):


fishy.jpg
 
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They need sand as a substrate. See if any of its barbels are hurt and they need a tank size of 20 gallons.
 
All of their barbels are in pristine condition. Water parameters are excellent. I fear a parasite. His gill area looks a bit red.
 
Salty&Onion said:
They need sand as a substrate. See if any of its barbels are hurt and they need a tank size of 20 gallons.
Click to expand...
While I've read enough to convince me that they would be fine with gravel, I've also read enough to convince me that they are happier with sand. As such, I am working on getting a sand substrate. Although, I'm not crazy about the anaerobic properties of sand, particularly with the roots of my Chinese Lotus plants (same as Lucky Bamboo for all intents and purposes). However, the Pandas come first (fauna before flora for me).
 
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I totally agree with Crispii
Salty&Onion said:
Ahh.. then how do they sift through gravel?
Click to expand...
They don't need to sift. If you're feeding pellets then they don't need to sift at all. I've had them on gravel before and they did just fine. However they are on sand now and are doing the same.
 
I won't comment on the "disease" issue, my experience with diseases in fish is (fortunately) very limited and guessing can make things much worse. Other members will likely have advise.

But I can comment on the substrate issue. And I am past the point of pussyfooting around this scietnific fact, so I will be direct but not aiming at anyone in this thread.

All species of Corydoradinae require a sand substrate, and non-rough sand. That is what they have in nature. And it is a critical aspect of their requirements.

Barbel erosion is just one factor and not really the most important.

The larger the grain of substrate, the easier for organic matter to fall down and the bacteria that need to deal with this do not function as effectively in gravel that is pea gravel (what is pictured here is that or possibly larger) as opposed to sand. That is a fact of biological science. The bacterial propblems with this substrate will impact the Corydoras detrimentally.

Third issue is that these fish are filter feeders. They cannot filter feed in gravel.

Paraphrasing Ian Fuller who knows more about these fish than anyone on this forum...Many people will/have posted previously that their choice of substrate is fine and their Corys are happy with it. I am not sure exactly how the fish can communicate this, or how people are interpreting the fishes actions, but like any animal in captivity they will make every effort to get the best out of what they are presented with. The need to filter feed is part of the inherent traits programmed into the DNA of this fish. Ignoring that is cruel and inhumane. Read the two citations in my signature block.
 
DwarfCichlidLvr said:
I totally agree with Crispii

They don't need to sift. If you're feeding pellets then they don't need to sift at all. I've had them on gravel before and they did just fine. However they are on sand now and are doing the same.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input! They aren't happier in the sand?
 
Byron said:
I won't comment on the "disease" issue, my experience with diseases in fish is (fortunately) very limited and guessing can make things much worse. Other members will likely have advise.

But I can comment on the substrate issue. And I am past the point of pussyfooting around this scietnific fact, so I will be direct but not aiming at anyone in this thread.

All species of Corydoradinae require a sand substrate, and non-rough sand. That is what they have in nature. And it is a critical aspect of their requirements.

Barbel erosion is just one factor and not really the most important.

The larger the grain of substrate, the easier for organic matter to fall down and the bacteria that need to deal with this do not function as effectively in gravel that is pea gravel (what is pictured here is that or possibly larger) as opposed to sand. That is a fact of biological science. The bacterial propblems with this substrate will impact the Corydoras detrimentally.

Third issue is that these fish are filter feeders. They cannot filter feed in gravel.

Paraphrasing Ian Fuller who knows more about these fish than anyone on this forum...Many people will/have posted previously that their choice of substrate is fine and their Corys are happy with it. I am not sure exactly how the fish can communicate this, or how people are interpreting the fishes actions, but like any animal in captivity they will make every effort to get the best out of what they are presented with. The need to filter feed is part of the inherent traits programmed into the DNA of this fish. Ignoring that is cruel and inhumane. Read the two citations in my signature block.
Click to expand...
Thanks Byron. Do you have a recommendation for sand. I've had white before and prefer something not white this time around. Black or brown is preferable.
 
PCat said:
Thanks Byron. Do you have a recommendation for sand. I've had white before and prefer something not white this time around. Black or brown is preferable.
Click to expand...

Aquarium River Sand is #1 because it is exactly what these fish have in their habitats. Going beyond that, any similar rounded-grain sand is OK. Look at the grains with a magnifying glass, and if they are not angular they are probably suited to the fish. I happen to use Quikrete Play Sand, in a dark grey mix. They also make a buff (more "natural appearing" sand) tone. I know from my communications with Quikrete about their processing that this is the most refined sand. Not all brands of play sand are, so I am not suggesting play sand generically.

White is always to be avoided, it does negatively impact the fish (not just cories). Black interestingly is also not advisable for the same reason. A non-white tone should be fine.

All construction/industrial sands are not suitable, as one can see when looking at the grains with a magnifying glass. They are rough, angular...however you want to describe them.

Sand is crucial to these fish. As they filter feed, they expel mucvh of the sand through the gill slits, but they also swallow/digest some of the sand. Corydoras do not have teeth so they cannot chew up food. They masticate it as best they can, then they swallow it, sand and all. Rough sand can cause serious problems.
 
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