Just bought a "siamese algae eater" from my fish shop, assured it was genuine but stripe was a bit faded as it was stressed in the bag. Couldn't see it in tank as that area is blocked off due to covid19 restrictions, but I have used this shop for some 20 years and they generally know what they are talking about. Now the fish is in my tank I have doubts, the stripe on the tail fin is present but not dark, there is no black spot underneath - but the fins are not yellowish and it does kind of sit up on its fins when resting. I have only just put it in the tank and have not seen it feeding yet. Could it be genuine and will it eat algae, even if false? I have expressed my doubts to the shop, they have offered a refund if I take it back today, but they are 10 miles away, so I thought I'd just accept it whatever, I'd just like to know true or false and so will it eat black beard algae or any algae?
Siamese algae eater true or false?
- Thread starter Papabravo
- Start date
Garra will eat algae yes. You should also feed foods such as vegetables, and they will need a bit of protein too. Do you have any pictures of the fish so we can check?
This except from my profile of the SAE may help in identification.
The common name Siamese Algae Eater is regularly applied to several related but distinct species. The species Crossocheilus langei is the one most often encountered in the hobby as the Siamese Algae Eater [SAE] and is the best at eating black brush [aka red beard] algae. The "true" SAE is actually Crossocheilus siamensis, a species initially described by H.M. Smith in 1931 as Epalzeorhynchus siamensis and moved by Banarescu into the genus Crossocheilus in 1986, and which has probably never been seen by hobbyists since the holotype [the specimen collected and used for the description] is the only one known. To further confuse, the fish described as C. siamensis by Smith was subsequently determined to be conspecific with a prior described species, Crossocheilus oblongus, so in fact there never was a C. siamensis as a distinct species, and the name now is a synonym for C. oblongus.
There are several near-identical species within Crossocheilus, and they are occasionally seen in the hobby. Their usefulness as "algae eaters" is variable, depending upon the species. Then there are two other fish often confused with the SAE, known as the False Siamese Algae Eater, Garra cambodgiensis, and the Flying Fox, Epalzeorhynchos kalopterus. Both of these regularly appear in the hobby, but neither will handle brush/beard algae like the common SAE. The False SAE can be distinguished by the dark lateral band that ends at the caudal peduncle whereas on the subject fish this band continues into the caudal fin. The Flying Fox has white-edged red and black coloured fins, not clear fins as in the subject species.
Compatibility/Temperament: Generally peaceful, suitable for the larger community aquarium with other peaceful fishes such as barbs, danios and most loaches. A shoaling fish by nature, it does best in a group of 6 or more and a distinct hierarchy will be formed within the group. They attain 6 inches (15 cm).
The common name Siamese Algae Eater is regularly applied to several related but distinct species. The species Crossocheilus langei is the one most often encountered in the hobby as the Siamese Algae Eater [SAE] and is the best at eating black brush [aka red beard] algae. The "true" SAE is actually Crossocheilus siamensis, a species initially described by H.M. Smith in 1931 as Epalzeorhynchus siamensis and moved by Banarescu into the genus Crossocheilus in 1986, and which has probably never been seen by hobbyists since the holotype [the specimen collected and used for the description] is the only one known. To further confuse, the fish described as C. siamensis by Smith was subsequently determined to be conspecific with a prior described species, Crossocheilus oblongus, so in fact there never was a C. siamensis as a distinct species, and the name now is a synonym for C. oblongus.
There are several near-identical species within Crossocheilus, and they are occasionally seen in the hobby. Their usefulness as "algae eaters" is variable, depending upon the species. Then there are two other fish often confused with the SAE, known as the False Siamese Algae Eater, Garra cambodgiensis, and the Flying Fox, Epalzeorhynchos kalopterus. Both of these regularly appear in the hobby, but neither will handle brush/beard algae like the common SAE. The False SAE can be distinguished by the dark lateral band that ends at the caudal peduncle whereas on the subject fish this band continues into the caudal fin. The Flying Fox has white-edged red and black coloured fins, not clear fins as in the subject species.
Compatibility/Temperament: Generally peaceful, suitable for the larger community aquarium with other peaceful fishes such as barbs, danios and most loaches. A shoaling fish by nature, it does best in a group of 6 or more and a distinct hierarchy will be formed within the group. They attain 6 inches (15 cm).
So hopefully he might eat some algae, but I decided it wasnt worth driving 20 miles round trip to take it back. How easy are the genuine thing to get hold of as I still have a black beard algae problem ( I hoped he would address it! )?
Never acquire a fish to solve an algae problem. As you can see from what I posted previously, you need a group of whichever species, and the species tend not to get along if mixed. And we have no idea of the tank size but any of these fish need a tank with a length of minimum 48 inches/120 cm. It really would be best to return this poor fish.
Brush algae is caused by animbalance of light and nutrients. I have dealt with this algae a few times in my 30 years of aquaria, and I always eliminate it (or more accurtately keep it from increasing) by adjusting the light, or sometimes the nutrient dosing, to provide what the plants need but no more. Algae is disadvantaged.
My tank is 260litres and 4ft long. The tank had no real problem until I went away for a month, it has auto feeding and auto light, I told my daughter not to worry about water changes whilst I was away. I now have a bit of green algae but mainly black beard algae problem. I have had a tropical tank for 20+ years but never a problem with this algae, I just really need to get the balance back to pre holiday. Light ( approx 8hrs a day), fed 2 x a day has not changed. Open to suggestions.
Garra cambodgiensis
Assuming the auto light was the same duration as previous, the issues that caused the algae were nutrient-related, and two aspects. First, the lack of water changes, I understand the reason but all I am trying to say is that substantial water changes do a lot to prevent algae issues, and not having them was one factor here. Related is the auto feeder. Fish can easily go a week, sometimes two weeks, without food. It would have been better, especially since you were not there to do the water changes or emergency ones if needed, to have pre-packaged a single feeding, and left instructions to add one of these packages twice on week, on say Monday and Thursday, or whatever. Eveen if the fish are eating normally, that is still a considerable amount of nutrients/organics entering the system unnecessarily. Something to keep in mind for the future.
Also on the feeding, twice a day for any mature fish (fry are the exception) is twice too much food. What goes in must come out, so twice daily feedings doubles the organic load. Even normally, I have two fast days for my fish every week, days on which they are not fed prepared foods (they may find natural microscopic foods). Some recommend alternate day feeding. Fish in an aquarium are not using much energy, unlike fish in their habitat, to avoid predators, etc.
To clear this up now, increase water changes, vacuum in the open areas of the substrate, clean the filter. These all reduce organics. If you add any plant additives to the water (substrate tabs do not factor in here) reducing that for a week or two should do no harm to thee plants, and it will force them to use more of the natural nutrients. Algae is always disadvantaged by these factors.
It does not take much to upset the balance of light/nutrients. After I moved to my previous house, I noticed that brush algae appeared/increased during the summer for two years. It finally dawned on me that the additional light intensity and duration from longer days entering the room might be the reason, and it turned out that was a correct assessment. Blackout drapes in every subsequent summer avoided the algae. I could do that easily enough as the tanks were in a dedicated fish room, but the point is that thee balance is sometimes a close one, and one little thing can tip it.
I would still return the fish. If it is a Garra cambodgiensis it is not strictly herbivorous but omnivorous, and it has not been shown to be effective on problem algae anyway.
Assuming the auto light was the same duration as previous, the issues that caused the algae were nutrient-related, and two aspects. First, the lack of water changes, I understand the reason but all I am trying to say is that substantial water changes do a lot to prevent algae issues, and not having them was one factor here. Related is the auto feeder. Fish can easily go a week, sometimes two weeks, without food. It would have been better, especially since you were not there to do the water changes or emergency ones if needed, to have pre-packaged a single feeding, and left instructions to add one of these packages twice on week, on say Monday and Thursday, or whatever. Eveen if the fish are eating normally, that is still a considerable amount of nutrients/organics entering the system unnecessarily. Something to keep in mind for the future.
Also on the feeding, twice a day for any mature fish (fry are the exception) is twice too much food. What goes in must come out, so twice daily feedings doubles the organic load. Even normally, I have two fast days for my fish every week, days on which they are not fed prepared foods (they may find natural microscopic foods). Some recommend alternate day feeding. Fish in an aquarium are not using much energy, unlike fish in their habitat, to avoid predators, etc.
To clear this up now, increase water changes, vacuum in the open areas of the substrate, clean the filter. These all reduce organics. If you add any plant additives to the water (substrate tabs do not factor in here) reducing that for a week or two should do no harm to thee plants, and it will force them to use more of the natural nutrients. Algae is always disadvantaged by these factors.
It does not take much to upset the balance of light/nutrients. After I moved to my previous house, I noticed that brush algae appeared/increased during the summer for two years. It finally dawned on me that the additional light intensity and duration from longer days entering the room might be the reason, and it turned out that was a correct assessment. Blackout drapes in every subsequent summer avoided the algae. I could do that easily enough as the tanks were in a dedicated fish room, but the point is that thee balance is sometimes a close one, and one little thing can tip it.
I would still return the fish. If it is a Garra cambodgiensis it is not strictly herbivorous but omnivorous, and it has not been shown to be effective on problem algae anyway.
Thanks for your reply, I did try leaving tank light off for a few days, helped a little with green algae, but as you say I can't black out easily as tank is in the main lounge. I will reduce the feed to once a day, I have stopped feeder from today for a few days and also added some new plants. Trouble is, having a science background, that is a lot of variables and I wont know which worked! Hopefully they all contribute to fewer nutrients and less algae. If nutrients drop will black beard algae reduce or just not increase?
Thanks for your reply, I did try leaving tank light off for a few days, helped a little with green algae, but as you say I can't black out easily as tank is in the main lounge. I will reduce the feed to once a day, I have stopped feeder from today for a few days and also added some new plants. Trouble is, having a science background, that is a lot of variables and I wont know which worked! Hopefully they all contribute to fewer nutrients and less algae. If nutrients drop will black beard algae reduce or just not increase?
BBA willnot disappear, it will stop increasing, and that is the goal.
Usually BBA occurs from too much light, which can be the intensity or the duration, individually or together; or from too much or too little plant nutrition. Given your information so far, I have aimed at the organics/nutrition issue because that is most likely what went awry if the light did not change, and since it was apparently in balance previously. Yoou really should cut back on the feeeding, and do the maintenance.
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