Blackwater Tank Not Working Out
- Thread starter Spen2cer
- Start date
First, you toss everything together and that’s about what goes on with DAY one. The little slice of nature we try to create is actually amazing and quiet complicated.
It can take months to actually mature. (I post a link below to a product that speeds the bio “bugs” up). I am old school (Dr. Innes and the Tropical Fish Hobbyist at the library) and we would let set ups mature for months. I can no longer keep fish where I am not (for 55 years since a child) so I am posting and researching from the web. (I have detailed science research as well many hundreds of links, background in pre oceanography and other sciences). As well, I no longer subscribe to publications and/or other forums.
See the information below on the “white stuff” on the wood (all natural) and fungus is a vital aspect of both land and water systems - once the tank (as others mention) is “matured” (balanced) it will go away - but it sets up the stage for the next living vital things.
Before I forget - if the white from the filter is the sand being stirred up then (as in many cases with small tanks) the current is way to strong for many fish (save for those in fast moving water systems which would require a much larger tank and still in natural river systems there are eddy’s and pools where a fish can “rest” if need be)... but most certainly for any betta. (I used to damper my filters and have a system where the flow was over plants or fake plants at the outlet.) (In larger bowls - huge I used the old fashion box filter but mostly it was well balanced and I wanted some circulation).
....................................................
The "white stuff" on another image of wood is a natural part of the maturing stages - once balance is allowed it will go away. It is actually a precursor to different life forms as the tank matures - lower then "higher" - well it's relative, lol. Here is a post from another forum that acurately describes this.
"I am led to understand that it is a Saprolegnia sp. fungus growing on the wood. It will probably be best NOT to scrub the wood, as the fungus will disappear once it is replaced by a bacterial/algal biofilm, and this is what you are aiming for. The fungus is just the quickest organism to colonise it. One just needs to be a bit patient to let the bacteria/algae displace the fungus. If you keep on actually scrubbing it you will be removing any desirable bacteria/algae too.
I suspect that, as iamntbatman mentioned, the fungus is attracted there by sap leaching out of the wood.
Read more:
https://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-tropical-fish/slime-mopani-wood-40193/#ixzz5apaGqnB0
.....................................................
Having lived in NYC and gotten municipal water information I had to filter out heavy metals and other (Ucky things including sewage by products). I used huge garbage tubs and did it for weeks (along with a filter so water changes - just from the bottom and smalls amounts, dribbled slowly back in were “easy peasy) (I had many aquariums). See a link below on heavy metals (certain ions are needed for all life) for advanced study.
Some metals, such as manganese, iron, copper, and zinc are essential micronutrients. They are essential to life in the right concentrations, but in excess, these chemicals can be poisonous. At the same time, chronic low exposures to heavy metals can have serious health effects in the long run.
https://www.lenntech.com/aquatic/metals.htm
http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/wiki/Metal_poisoning
..........................................
These links are rarely found with searches anymore but SUPERB literature on PH, Redox systems and other matters.
This is a MUST Read article chapter on this subject of RO water use, including Buffers:
Correct RO, DI Water Use in Aquariums
KH is basically the alkaline buffering capacity of your aquarium (there also is an opposite acid buffering process which when combined with KH is important for planted aquariums or low pH aquariums;
See pH/ Amazon River Section).
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.html#amazon
................................................
AQUARIUM CHEMISTRY | Calcium & KH & GH & pH & Electrolytes (ions)
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.html
By Carl Strohmeyer-PAMR 35+ years experience
Updated 11/27/18
AQUARIUM CHEMISTRY OVERVIEW;
Many aquarists overlook the need for electrolytes; positive mineral cations such as calcium & magnesium and the effect of KH (Carbonate hardness) in their freshwater aquarium (marine aquarium keepers tend to be more aware of these processes/parameters).
Minerals such calcium are essential for osmotic function in fish and many aquarists make the mistake of believing that some fish such as Discus or Bettas do not require Calcium or minerals when in reality (based on many studies in biochemistry and relating to Redox Balance) these mineral cations are essential and GH test kits to not give the full picture (Important, please see the GH section for more).
Unfortunately, based on many forum posts, client conversations, and emails; this aspect of aquarium keeping is one of the most misunderstood today as is often the case in the "The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle" as well!
Reference: Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle
We as fish keepers should understand that fish will often adjust to poor electrolyte and calcium (& other necessary Redox reducing elements), however this does not prove this is best for the health of your fish anymore than how fish will often adjust to aquariums that are crowded with infrequent water changes (which is also not good for long term fish health).
Aquariums that are overdue for a water change, with high bio load, lack mineral/electrolyte replenishment, or simply initially start out with incorrect chemistry often results in inadequate mineral and carbonate chemistry necessary for optimum bio function of the aquatic inhabitants (fish and invertebrates).
Correction of this problem via water changes and/or addition of mineral or carbonate supplements may even show initial stress until the inhabitants adjust to the improved water quality.
Often aquarists in both fresh and sometimes even saltwater worry too much about pH while ignoring the importance of mineral cations/electrolytes (found in part via GH), and KH (more correctly identified as alkalinity, as it is in SW). As for pH, stability is more important than the actual pH number in freshwater.
In marine aquariums the actual pH number is of higher importance than in most FW aquariums (due to the fact here are much lower natural fluctuations in pH in natural bodies of saltwater), however even in saltwater a correct alkalinity (KH) is a must for proper buffering of marine pH and as well elements such as Calcium, Magnesium and Chloride are also very important to a healthy saltwater aquarium as you will read further in this article.
Popular but outdated aquarium traditions state that only certain fish need water high in electrolytes and calcium, this is only partly true.
It is noteworthy that the Fish Body (as an organism) is alkaline by nature and is constantly attacked by free radicals which are usually acidic.
While freshwater fish absorb needed H2O (saltwater drink constantly), the need for these electrolytes and calcium for some fish (such as Amazon River fish) is lower than some, however Proper Osmotic function still requires that calcium and other electrolytes be present in the aquatic environment as well as foods.
..............................................
Well maintained water chemistry, including GH (mineral ions), KH and Redox not just low ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. In other words, a Redox that moves up in down with large changes in ORP likely indicates an aquarium with too high a bio-load.
References:
Aquarium Redox
Aquarium Bio-Load
Redox ORP Meter
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Basic_Aquarium_Principles.html
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Redox_Potential.html
...........................................
Second, (due to changes in google search algorithms the old search results to amazing sites just don't come up anymore) there are many river systems in both the Amazonian tributary system and mostly Florida. Meaning many different variations on a "theme". One can find not only wood which leaches tannins (and is why it is called black water and needs specific fish and plants if any) and sands and rocks.
Now there is actually "white water" set ups where silt and sand is flushing along the river systems but I don't think that was your intent. It is probably one of several things. (first how did you "pack" your filter" - I am assuming it is not something from your filtration choices.
All filter systems have to mature just as the aquaraium does (reason why to not "clean" them completely out - I used to use the same tank water as well so as not to destroy the "bio bugs".
As other's have mention it could be just the sand being stirred up OR it can be the same type of "fungus" (white stuff) culturing in your filter - which will clear up.
............................................
I use to rescue bettas from the horrific pet shop bowls (just before being flushed usually). An excellent book (have to look inside) is at this link. It is mostly on wild betta types and genetics (breeding care so on).
https://www.amazon.com/Bettas-Compl...lete+Pet+Owner's+manual+barrons&tag=ff0d01-20
https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/articles/how-to-set-up-an-amazon-themed-aquarium
There are some good betta forums - but I found many hadn't a clue - so perhaps do your own research from books and other sources.
Here is a link to a product (for industry) but I was allowed to buy smaller quantities. Not sure if it works.
BioDigesters - “The Natural Alternative to Chemicals”
http://www.biodigesters.net/
Put a small pinch (teeny) in cup of same aquarium water - let sit then put into filter. Use as needed (each water partial so on)... a teeny bit goes a long long way. You will see little bugs hopping, swimming, zooming about in a few days - harmless and beneficial bio cultures!
......................................
Nat Geo had an amazing series of the Amazon River Systems - underwater. I lost many of my links when I had a computer crash years ago. Here is a link showing these systems - and MHO I say add rocks (some have rocks) wood - what ever you wish as for the most part these systems are "MESSY" lol. Your little slice of nature can draw from what ever - it could be near the river's edge where larger rocks are found - and driftwood as well. Or from the deeper channels where it is mostly sand and wood.
I think it was called River of the Sun (Amazon) this can show what it really looks like underwater.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Amazon+rivers+of+the+sun+series
https://rainforests.mongabay.com/0602.htm
https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs...=yhs-mozilla-100&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-100
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_river
Shows many aquarium fish in their amazing natural environment.
It’s a jungle out there - eat and be eaten - ALIVE!!!
Rivers of the Sun - a series of Amazon videos (where many of our pet fish come from - locals often use poisons to supply for the fish trade and many now extinct in the wild).
Natural Habit for many Ornamental Aquarium Fish (South America - Venezuela)
Brackish - River systems, flooded areas and more - AMAZING video.
.............................
Various other links to share (I am old now want to pass them along, lol).
Highly experienced people on this forum.
https://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/crypts.html
Someone translated a Russian site on Anubias - extensive.
http://anubias-engl.blogspot.com/
.........................
Metal tolerance
Some metals, such as manganese, iron, copper, and zinc are essential micronutrients. They are essential to life in the right concentrations, but in excess, these chemicals can be poisonous. At the same time, chronic low exposures to heavy metals can have serious health effects in the long run.
Tolerance to metals has also been recorded in invertebrates and in fish. After exposure for 24 hours to a copper concentration of 0.55 mg/l, rainbow trout showed a 55 per cent inhibition of sodium uptake and a 4 per cent reduction in affinity for sodium, which resulted in an overall decrease in total sodium concentration of sulphydryl-rich protein (Lauren and McDonald 1987a,b). The protein was considered to be a metallothionein. These low molecular weight proteins contain many sulphur-rich amino acids which bind and detoxify some metals. The pretreatment of an organism with low doses of a metal may stimulate metallothionein synthesis and provide tolerance during a subsequent exposure (Pascoe and Beattie, 1979).
Many rivers are polluted with heavy metals from old mine workings and some species of algae become very tolerant to polluted conditions. A survey of 47 sites with different concentration of zinc found the filamentous green alga 'Hormidium rivulare' to be abundant everywhere, tolerating zinc concentrations as high as 30.2 mg Zn/l.
Toxicity of metals
For the protection of human health, the maximum permissible concentrations for metals in natural waters that are recommended by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), are listed below:
Read more: https://www.lenntech.com/aquatic/metals.htm#ixzz5apx76NlO
It can take months to actually mature. (I post a link below to a product that speeds the bio “bugs” up). I am old school (Dr. Innes and the Tropical Fish Hobbyist at the library) and we would let set ups mature for months. I can no longer keep fish where I am not (for 55 years since a child) so I am posting and researching from the web. (I have detailed science research as well many hundreds of links, background in pre oceanography and other sciences). As well, I no longer subscribe to publications and/or other forums.
See the information below on the “white stuff” on the wood (all natural) and fungus is a vital aspect of both land and water systems - once the tank (as others mention) is “matured” (balanced) it will go away - but it sets up the stage for the next living vital things.
Before I forget - if the white from the filter is the sand being stirred up then (as in many cases with small tanks) the current is way to strong for many fish (save for those in fast moving water systems which would require a much larger tank and still in natural river systems there are eddy’s and pools where a fish can “rest” if need be)... but most certainly for any betta. (I used to damper my filters and have a system where the flow was over plants or fake plants at the outlet.) (In larger bowls - huge I used the old fashion box filter but mostly it was well balanced and I wanted some circulation).
....................................................
The "white stuff" on another image of wood is a natural part of the maturing stages - once balance is allowed it will go away. It is actually a precursor to different life forms as the tank matures - lower then "higher" - well it's relative, lol. Here is a post from another forum that acurately describes this.
"I am led to understand that it is a Saprolegnia sp. fungus growing on the wood. It will probably be best NOT to scrub the wood, as the fungus will disappear once it is replaced by a bacterial/algal biofilm, and this is what you are aiming for. The fungus is just the quickest organism to colonise it. One just needs to be a bit patient to let the bacteria/algae displace the fungus. If you keep on actually scrubbing it you will be removing any desirable bacteria/algae too.
I suspect that, as iamntbatman mentioned, the fungus is attracted there by sap leaching out of the wood.
Read more:
https://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-tropical-fish/slime-mopani-wood-40193/#ixzz5apaGqnB0
.....................................................
Having lived in NYC and gotten municipal water information I had to filter out heavy metals and other (Ucky things including sewage by products). I used huge garbage tubs and did it for weeks (along with a filter so water changes - just from the bottom and smalls amounts, dribbled slowly back in were “easy peasy) (I had many aquariums). See a link below on heavy metals (certain ions are needed for all life) for advanced study.
Some metals, such as manganese, iron, copper, and zinc are essential micronutrients. They are essential to life in the right concentrations, but in excess, these chemicals can be poisonous. At the same time, chronic low exposures to heavy metals can have serious health effects in the long run.
https://www.lenntech.com/aquatic/metals.htm
http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/wiki/Metal_poisoning
..........................................
These links are rarely found with searches anymore but SUPERB literature on PH, Redox systems and other matters.
This is a MUST Read article chapter on this subject of RO water use, including Buffers:
Correct RO, DI Water Use in Aquariums
KH is basically the alkaline buffering capacity of your aquarium (there also is an opposite acid buffering process which when combined with KH is important for planted aquariums or low pH aquariums;
See pH/ Amazon River Section).
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.html#amazon
................................................
AQUARIUM CHEMISTRY | Calcium & KH & GH & pH & Electrolytes (ions)
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.html
By Carl Strohmeyer-PAMR 35+ years experience
Updated 11/27/18
AQUARIUM CHEMISTRY OVERVIEW;
Many aquarists overlook the need for electrolytes; positive mineral cations such as calcium & magnesium and the effect of KH (Carbonate hardness) in their freshwater aquarium (marine aquarium keepers tend to be more aware of these processes/parameters).
Minerals such calcium are essential for osmotic function in fish and many aquarists make the mistake of believing that some fish such as Discus or Bettas do not require Calcium or minerals when in reality (based on many studies in biochemistry and relating to Redox Balance) these mineral cations are essential and GH test kits to not give the full picture (Important, please see the GH section for more).
Unfortunately, based on many forum posts, client conversations, and emails; this aspect of aquarium keeping is one of the most misunderstood today as is often the case in the "The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle" as well!
Reference: Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle
We as fish keepers should understand that fish will often adjust to poor electrolyte and calcium (& other necessary Redox reducing elements), however this does not prove this is best for the health of your fish anymore than how fish will often adjust to aquariums that are crowded with infrequent water changes (which is also not good for long term fish health).
Aquariums that are overdue for a water change, with high bio load, lack mineral/electrolyte replenishment, or simply initially start out with incorrect chemistry often results in inadequate mineral and carbonate chemistry necessary for optimum bio function of the aquatic inhabitants (fish and invertebrates).
Correction of this problem via water changes and/or addition of mineral or carbonate supplements may even show initial stress until the inhabitants adjust to the improved water quality.
Often aquarists in both fresh and sometimes even saltwater worry too much about pH while ignoring the importance of mineral cations/electrolytes (found in part via GH), and KH (more correctly identified as alkalinity, as it is in SW). As for pH, stability is more important than the actual pH number in freshwater.
In marine aquariums the actual pH number is of higher importance than in most FW aquariums (due to the fact here are much lower natural fluctuations in pH in natural bodies of saltwater), however even in saltwater a correct alkalinity (KH) is a must for proper buffering of marine pH and as well elements such as Calcium, Magnesium and Chloride are also very important to a healthy saltwater aquarium as you will read further in this article.
Popular but outdated aquarium traditions state that only certain fish need water high in electrolytes and calcium, this is only partly true.
It is noteworthy that the Fish Body (as an organism) is alkaline by nature and is constantly attacked by free radicals which are usually acidic.
While freshwater fish absorb needed H2O (saltwater drink constantly), the need for these electrolytes and calcium for some fish (such as Amazon River fish) is lower than some, however Proper Osmotic function still requires that calcium and other electrolytes be present in the aquatic environment as well as foods.
..............................................
Well maintained water chemistry, including GH (mineral ions), KH and Redox not just low ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. In other words, a Redox that moves up in down with large changes in ORP likely indicates an aquarium with too high a bio-load.
References:
Aquarium Redox
Aquarium Bio-Load
Redox ORP Meter
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Basic_Aquarium_Principles.html
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Redox_Potential.html
...........................................
Second, (due to changes in google search algorithms the old search results to amazing sites just don't come up anymore) there are many river systems in both the Amazonian tributary system and mostly Florida. Meaning many different variations on a "theme". One can find not only wood which leaches tannins (and is why it is called black water and needs specific fish and plants if any) and sands and rocks.
Now there is actually "white water" set ups where silt and sand is flushing along the river systems but I don't think that was your intent. It is probably one of several things. (first how did you "pack" your filter" - I am assuming it is not something from your filtration choices.
All filter systems have to mature just as the aquaraium does (reason why to not "clean" them completely out - I used to use the same tank water as well so as not to destroy the "bio bugs".
As other's have mention it could be just the sand being stirred up OR it can be the same type of "fungus" (white stuff) culturing in your filter - which will clear up.
............................................
I use to rescue bettas from the horrific pet shop bowls (just before being flushed usually). An excellent book (have to look inside) is at this link. It is mostly on wild betta types and genetics (breeding care so on).
https://www.amazon.com/Bettas-Compl...lete+Pet+Owner's+manual+barrons&tag=ff0d01-20
https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/articles/how-to-set-up-an-amazon-themed-aquarium
There are some good betta forums - but I found many hadn't a clue - so perhaps do your own research from books and other sources.
Here is a link to a product (for industry) but I was allowed to buy smaller quantities. Not sure if it works.
BioDigesters - “The Natural Alternative to Chemicals”
http://www.biodigesters.net/
Put a small pinch (teeny) in cup of same aquarium water - let sit then put into filter. Use as needed (each water partial so on)... a teeny bit goes a long long way. You will see little bugs hopping, swimming, zooming about in a few days - harmless and beneficial bio cultures!
......................................
Nat Geo had an amazing series of the Amazon River Systems - underwater. I lost many of my links when I had a computer crash years ago. Here is a link showing these systems - and MHO I say add rocks (some have rocks) wood - what ever you wish as for the most part these systems are "MESSY" lol. Your little slice of nature can draw from what ever - it could be near the river's edge where larger rocks are found - and driftwood as well. Or from the deeper channels where it is mostly sand and wood.
I think it was called River of the Sun (Amazon) this can show what it really looks like underwater.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Amazon+rivers+of+the+sun+series
https://rainforests.mongabay.com/0602.htm
https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs...=yhs-mozilla-100&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-100
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_river
Shows many aquarium fish in their amazing natural environment.
It’s a jungle out there - eat and be eaten - ALIVE!!!
Rivers of the Sun - a series of Amazon videos (where many of our pet fish come from - locals often use poisons to supply for the fish trade and many now extinct in the wild).
Natural Habit for many Ornamental Aquarium Fish (South America - Venezuela)
Brackish - River systems, flooded areas and more - AMAZING video.
.............................
Various other links to share (I am old now want to pass them along, lol).
Highly experienced people on this forum.
https://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/crypts.html
Someone translated a Russian site on Anubias - extensive.
http://anubias-engl.blogspot.com/
.........................
Metal tolerance
Some metals, such as manganese, iron, copper, and zinc are essential micronutrients. They are essential to life in the right concentrations, but in excess, these chemicals can be poisonous. At the same time, chronic low exposures to heavy metals can have serious health effects in the long run.
Tolerance to metals has also been recorded in invertebrates and in fish. After exposure for 24 hours to a copper concentration of 0.55 mg/l, rainbow trout showed a 55 per cent inhibition of sodium uptake and a 4 per cent reduction in affinity for sodium, which resulted in an overall decrease in total sodium concentration of sulphydryl-rich protein (Lauren and McDonald 1987a,b). The protein was considered to be a metallothionein. These low molecular weight proteins contain many sulphur-rich amino acids which bind and detoxify some metals. The pretreatment of an organism with low doses of a metal may stimulate metallothionein synthesis and provide tolerance during a subsequent exposure (Pascoe and Beattie, 1979).
Many rivers are polluted with heavy metals from old mine workings and some species of algae become very tolerant to polluted conditions. A survey of 47 sites with different concentration of zinc found the filamentous green alga 'Hormidium rivulare' to be abundant everywhere, tolerating zinc concentrations as high as 30.2 mg Zn/l.
Toxicity of metals
For the protection of human health, the maximum permissible concentrations for metals in natural waters that are recommended by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), are listed below:
Read more: https://www.lenntech.com/aquatic/metals.htm#ixzz5apx76NlO
OP
OP
Spen2cer
Fish Fanatic
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2018
- Messages
- 140
- Reaction score
- 19
I realized that the white dust was calcium build up on the glass being blown off. I watched some of the documentaries, and read all of the articles you listed. My filter is super low flow, and the tank is more tall tank wide, making any current basically undetectable. The tank is at the end of the cycle now, because the tank had been cycling a few weeks prior to adding the wood. The wood already has the coat of bacteria, because I added it to a tank before that expecting that to happen. My whole goal of this tank is to show the natural beauty, not the fake plants and decor. I want to make the betta feel as natural as possible, so I’m going to feed live foods, keep the water tea like, and have low flow. I’m going to heavily plant it with java fern tomorrow, as well as put in ghost shrimp. How are you so good at researching this stuff? I admire your effort for some random person on the Internet. 
hi, I use a wood called bulloke in my tank I hand carve the pieces from heart wood it can leech tan in especially the first time you soak the piece but the tannins I get in my tank are normally 0 or nill "normally" but I have never had them in black water 'acidic' if mine do it,s part of a cycle and the KH makes it revert to clear.
I am saying this because it is important to know what wood you use some are poisonous you can find out either buy looking on the www . wood database or research mopane is fine it,s not entirely dense it,s only just denser then water so tannins will leach more easily where bulloke is much denser then water ' I always keep it wet if you dry it out it will leach tannins worse and worse each time.. We'll what I wanted to say is about using wattle where aborigine use mulga wood or a type of acacia "wattle" to catch fish by pounding the bark to release tannins and depleating oxygen " supposedly" but they use the same wood as a poisonous arrow head taken from a different species of acaccia . Now there is a very small area in south west qld that has a species of acaccia that is suspected of killing an entire herd of cattle although it isn't proven it has it,s own scientific name because of it and it is thought to be from a soil condition in that area . I also have a link about mopane creating defense chemicals when being farmed I think may be interesting.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...mical_defences_in_Colophospermum_mopane_trees
I am saying this because it is important to know what wood you use some are poisonous you can find out either buy looking on the www . wood database or research mopane is fine it,s not entirely dense it,s only just denser then water so tannins will leach more easily where bulloke is much denser then water ' I always keep it wet if you dry it out it will leach tannins worse and worse each time.. We'll what I wanted to say is about using wattle where aborigine use mulga wood or a type of acacia "wattle" to catch fish by pounding the bark to release tannins and depleating oxygen " supposedly" but they use the same wood as a poisonous arrow head taken from a different species of acaccia . Now there is a very small area in south west qld that has a species of acaccia that is suspected of killing an entire herd of cattle although it isn't proven it has it,s own scientific name because of it and it is thought to be from a soil condition in that area . I also have a link about mopane creating defense chemicals when being farmed I think may be interesting.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...mical_defences_in_Colophospermum_mopane_trees
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