1 red belly piranha in an un cycled tank

Goldenburd

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Hi i have a red belle piranha and 2 feeder guppies and two snails in the tank with him but the tank there inis un cycled but his old tank is. but theres like 20 breeding guppies in it do i move him back or just let him go also will there be anylomg term problems?
 
Take a quarter of the media from the filter in the old tank, and add that to the filter in the new tank; that will partially cycle the new tank, but you will have to keep testing for ammonia and nitrite, and do the necessary water changes, if you see anything above 0.25ppm on your test kits.

You should certainly not just 'let it go', as your fish could get very sick, or die, and it will be very unpleasant for him or her to live in toxic water.

On a side note, you really shouldn't feed guppies ( or goldfish, or rosy red minnows) to predator fish. They contain a substance called thiaminase, which damages the internal organs of the fish eating them. There's no need to feed a piranha on live food anyway.
 
Take a quarter of the media from the filter in the old tank, and add that to the filter in the new tank; that will partially cycle the new tank, but you will have to keep testing for ammonia and nitrite, and do the necessary water changes, if you see anything above 0.25ppm on your test kits.

You should certainly not just 'let it go', as your fish could get very sick, or die, and it will be very unpleasant for him or her to live in toxic water.

On a side note, you really shouldn't feed guppies ( or goldfish, or rosy red minnows) to predator fish. They contain a substance called thiaminase, which damages the internal organs of the fish eating them. There's no need to feed a piranha on live food anyway.
Hi i have a red belle piranha and 2 feeder guppies and two snails in the tank with him but the tank there inis un cycled but his old tank is. but theres like 20 breeding guppies in it do i move him back or just let him go also will there be anylomg term problems?

He wont eat them any ways because of the fact he dosemt like live he eats krill
 
On a side note, you really shouldn't feed guppies ( or goldfish, or rosy red minnows) to predator fish. They contain a substance called thiaminase, which damages the internal organs of the fish eating them. There's no need to feed a piranha on live food anyway.

i disagree.....

piranha would be eating live fish in the wild....that is what they should be fed in captivity, it is their instinct to eat live fish, that shouldn't be taken away from them,

what you have stated above is pure myth,

in my experience it is very difficult to get piranha to eat anything BUT live food, with the exception of raw red meat, but they can not, and should not survive on that alone,

i kept a school of piranhas for over 15 years.....their main diet was goldfish, never had one catch any type of disease
 
i disagree.....

piranha would be eating live fish in the wild....that is what they should be fed in captivity, it is their instinct to eat live fish, that shouldn't be taken away from them,

what you have stated above is pure myth,

in my experience it is very difficult to get piranha to eat anything BUT live food, with the exception of raw red meat, but they can not, and should not survive on that alone,

i kept a school of piranhas for over 15 years.....their main diet was goldfish, never had one catch any type of disease
i disagree.....

piranha would be eating live fish in the wild....that is what they should be fed in captivity, it is their instinct to eat live fish, that shouldn't be taken away from them,

what you have stated above is pure myth,

in my experience it is very difficult to get piranha to eat anything BUT live food, with the exception of raw red meat, but they can not, and should not survive on that alone,

i kept a school of piranhas for over 15 years.....their main diet was goldfish, never had one catch any type of disease
I just go back and forth with krill and guppies
 
On a side note, you really shouldn't feed guppies ( or goldfish, or rosy red minnows) to predator fish. They contain a substance called thiaminase, which damages the internal organs of the fish eating them.

Fluttermouth is correct.

There are also other risks when feeding live fish.


The case AGAINST feeder fish
The main disadvantage of using live fish as food is the risk of introducing parasites and bacteria into the aquarium. The cheap fish likely to be used as feeders have, almost by definition, been raised intensively, and that means they will have been exposed to all kinds of disease-causing organisms. Whitespot and velvet are extremely easily transmitted between feeder fish kept in cramped quarters, and over the long term, feeder fish can expose predatory fish to skin and gill lice, parasitic intestinal worms, neon tetra disease, and a whole host of opportunistic parasites, bacteria, and viruses.

Goldfish are especially popular as feeder fish, being cheap and relatively large, but they are actually among the worst of all prey species for most predatory fish. They are fatty and rich in a chemical called thiaminase, an enzyme that destroys the essential nutrient thiamine (also known as vitamin B1). Rosy red minnows, a popular alternative to goldfish, also contain a lot of fat and thiaminase. In the wild, because piscivorous fish eat a variety of species, any shortcomings with one prey item will be counterbalanced by the next; so while a gar or channel catfish might catch a minnow one day, its next meal might be small perch, carps, or killifish. But in the aquarium, where only one or two species of prey are used, there is a very real risk of vitamin deficiency. By contrast, aquarists taking the time to train their predators to take a selection of frozen foods supplemented with pellets or flake can guarantee that their fish will receive a varied diet that will keep their fish healthy throughout its lifetime.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fdgfdrartneale.htm


I do feed my Bumblebee Gobys live new born Endler fry as a treat once a week or when I can get them, I breed the Endlers myself and they are very healthy.
 
I have never heard of thiaminase prior to this thread being posted. Dr Googly has some information about it but most of that information appears to relate to goldfish & guppies being used as feeder fish, and mussel meat & prawn. I was unable to find any references to scientific research, or statistics or even personal experiences where people had studied this in captive fish.

Whether this is a true condition in fish, or something that has been made up by the animal liberation groups I do not know. I also do not know if the information is based on human physiology or fish physiology. Humans and fish have different needs and fish have been around for millions of years longer than primates (fish were around before the dinosaurs, primates didn't appear until after the dinosaurs). So if there is a condition in people, it probably is not the same disorder in fish, due to them having been around for longer and probably having developed a natural strategy to compensate for this. In addition to this, fish have been eating other fish since day one, so if they were going to suffer from vitamin B deficiency they would have evolved a defence against it.

If it is a true condition that affects fish then we need more information and scientific studies to validate the comments being made by the people making these claims.

Having said all this, there is no need to feed live fish or shrimp to other fishes, (with the exception of wild seahorses taking live shrimp), and all fish can be trained onto dead food. Live feeder fishes can introduce diseases (as listed above by Nick), and being put into a tank with a big predator that is going to eat you must be terrifying to the feeder fish. How many of you go in the ocean when you see a shark fin? Not many of you so think about being a small fish dropped into a tank with a big predator. In addition to this, if an animal is fed the same single type of food every day (not including commercially prepared foods), they can suffer from nutritional deficiencies, and if you ever run out of that food (or are unable to get it) the fish will usually go on a hunger strike until that food is made available again.

You are better off feeding a variety of frozen (but defrosted) meats based around fish and using live food as an occasional treat. This will reduce the risk of diseases being introduced into the tank, and provide a more varied diet that will reduce the chances of nutritional deficiencies. With piranha you can also add mammal meat (beef, lamb, pork) to their diet once or twice a week. Avoid raw chicken due to the drug resistant bacteria commonly found on raw chicken products these days.

Most fishing shops sell packets of white bait and blue sardines and also prawns/ shrimp & squid/ octopus. You can keep these in the freezer and take some out, defrost them and offer them to the fish. Varying the diet will ensure the fish gets all the nutrients it requires.

Piranha do not naturally eat goldfish or guppies because those fishes do not occur in the Amazon River or its tributaries. Their diet includes anything meat based and they even take insects when young. They will scavenge and eat dead animals, birds, reptiles and fish, and they will eat smaller fish and take bites out of bigger fish. They do not need live food and the fish will take dead food without any issues at all.

If you want to feed live fish to the piranha, then use species that naturally occur in the Amazon, fishes like tetras and cichlids. The piranha naturally eats them so nobody can say they cause thiaminase, because these are some of the fish's natural food items. Use frozen (but defrosted) foods and pellet foods as the basis for its diet, and add live fish or shrimp as a treat no more than once a week.
 
I have never heard of thiaminase prior to this thread being posted. Dr Googly has some information about it but most of that information appears to relate to goldfish & guppies being used as feeder fish, and mussel meat & prawn. I was unable to find any references to scientific research, or statistics or even personal experiences where people had studied this in captive fish.

Whether this is a true condition in fish, or something that has been made up by the animal liberation groups I do not know. I also do not know if the information is based on human physiology or fish physiology. Humans and fish have different needs and fish have been around for millions of years longer than primates (fish were around before the dinosaurs, primates didn't appear until after the dinosaurs). So if there is a condition in people, it probably is not the same disorder in fish, due to them having been around for longer and probably having developed a natural strategy to compensate for this. In addition to this, fish have been eating other fish since day one, so if they were going to suffer from vitamin B deficiency they would have evolved a defence against it.

If it is a true condition that affects fish then we need more information and scientific studies to validate the comments being made by the people making these claims.

Having said all this, there is no need to feed live fish or shrimp to other fishes, (with the exception of wild seahorses taking live shrimp), and all fish can be trained onto dead food. Live feeder fishes can introduce diseases (as listed above by Nick), and being put into a tank with a big predator that is going to eat you must be terrifying to the feeder fish. How many of you go in the ocean when you see a shark fin? Not many of you so think about being a small fish dropped into a tank with a big predator. In addition to this, if an animal is fed the same single type of food every day (not including commercially prepared foods), they can suffer from nutritional deficiencies, and if you ever run out of that food (or are unable to get it) the fish will usually go on a hunger strike until that food is made available again.

You are better off feeding a variety of frozen (but defrosted) meats based around fish and using live food as an occasional treat. This will reduce the risk of diseases being introduced into the tank, and provide a more varied diet that will reduce the chances of nutritional deficiencies. With piranha you can also add mammal meat (beef, lamb, pork) to their diet once or twice a week. Avoid raw chicken due to the drug resistant bacteria commonly found on raw chicken products these days.

Most fishing shops sell packets of white bait and blue sardines and also prawns/ shrimp & squid/ octopus. You can keep these in the freezer and take some out, defrost them and offer them to the fish. Varying the diet will ensure the fish gets all the nutrients it requires.

Piranha do not naturally eat goldfish or guppies because those fishes do not occur in the Amazon River or its tributaries. Their diet includes anything meat based and they even take insects when young. They will scavenge and eat dead animals, birds, reptiles and fish, and they will eat smaller fish and take bites out of bigger fish. They do not need live food and the fish will take dead food without any issues at all.

If you want to feed live fish to the piranha, then use species that naturally occur in the Amazon, fishes like tetras and cichlids. The piranha naturally eats them so nobody can say they cause thiaminase, because these are some of the fish's natural food items. Use frozen (but defrosted) foods and pellet foods as the basis for its diet, and add live fish or shrimp as a treat no more than once a week.
I breed my own guppies and i feed him 1 once a week just as a treat
 
7
I have never heard of thiaminase prior to this thread being posted. Dr Googly has some information about it but most of that information appears to relate to goldfish & guppies being used as feeder fish, and mussel meat & prawn. I was unable to find any references to scientific research, or statistics or even personal experiences where people had studied this in captive fish.

Whether this is a true condition in fish, or something that has been made up by the animal liberation groups I do not know. I also do not know if the information is based on human physiology or fish physiology. Humans and fish have different needs and fish have been around for millions of years longer than primates (fish were around before the dinosaurs, primates didn't appear until after the dinosaurs). So if there is a condition in people, it probably is not the same disorder in fish, due to them having been around for longer and probably having developed a natural strategy to compensate for this. In addition to this, fish have been eating other fish since day one, so if they were going to suffer from vitamin B deficiency they would have evolved a defence against it.

If it is a true condition that affects fish then we need more information and scientific studies to validate the comments being made by the people making these claims.

Having said all this, there is no need to feed live fish or shrimp to other fishes, (with the exception of wild seahorses taking live shrimp), and all fish can be trained onto dead food. Live feeder fishes can introduce diseases (as listed above by Nick), and being put into a tank with a big predator that is going to eat you must be terrifying to the feeder fish. How many of you go in the ocean when you see a shark fin? Not many of you so think about being a small fish dropped into a tank with a big predator. In addition to this, if an animal is fed the same single type of food every day (not including commercially prepared foods), they can suffer from nutritional deficiencies, and if you ever run out of that food (or are unable to get it) the fish will usually go on a hunger strike until that food is made available again.

You are better off feeding a variety of frozen (but defrosted) meats based around fish and using live food as an occasional treat. This will reduce the risk of diseases being introduced into the tank, and provide a more varied diet that will reduce the chances of nutritional deficiencies. With piranha you can also add mammal meat (beef, lamb, pork) to their diet once or twice a week. Avoid raw chicken due to the drug resistant bacteria commonly found on raw chicken products these days.

Most fishing shops sell packets of white bait and blue sardines and also prawns/ shrimp & squid/ octopus. You can keep these in the freezer and take some out, defrost them and offer them to the fish. Varying the diet will ensure the fish gets all the nutrients it requires.

Piranha do not naturally eat goldfish or guppies because those fishes do not occur in the Amazon River or its tributaries. Their diet includes anything meat based and they even take insects when young. They will scavenge and eat dead animals, birds, reptiles and fish, and they will eat smaller fish and take bites out of bigger fish. They do not need live food and the fish will take dead food without any issues at all.

If you want to feed live fish to the piranha, then use species that naturally occur in the Amazon, fishes like tetras and cichlids. The piranha naturally eats them so nobody can say they cause thiaminase, because these are some of the fish's natural food items. Use frozen (but defrosted) foods and pellet foods as the basis for its diet, and add live fish or shrimp as a treat no more than once a week.
so any terta
 
Any tetra from South America will be fine. Neons, glolights & cardinal tetras are found there but if you are breeding guppies and only feeding them once a week, and the fish gets other types of food for the rest of the week, I wouldn't worry about tetras and just keep doing what you are doing.

------------------------
Getting back to your original question, (we all got side tracked), because the fish is a meat eater, you need an established biological filter on its tank otherwise you will get high ammonia levels and these will kill the fish.

Fluttermoth suggested using 1/4 of the old filter in the new tank, however, due to the fish being a true carnivore, I would take half the filter materials from an established filter and put them in the new filter. This should give you an instant cycled filter with enough good bacteria to keep the water clean.

You should also monitor ammonia and nitrite levels daily for a few weeks to make sure the filters are settling down and keeping the water clean. And if you get any ammonia or nitrite readings, do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean, and reduce feeding to once every couple of days.
 
Any tetraJ from South America will be fine. Neons, glolights & cardinal tetras are found there but if you are breeding guppies and only feeding them once a week, and the fish gets other types of food for the rest of the week, I wouldn't worry about tetras and just keep doing what you are doing.

------------------------
Getting back to your original question, (we all got side tracked), because the fish is a meat eater, you need an established biological filter on its tank otherwise you will get high ammonia levels and these will kill the fish.

Fluttermoth suggested using 1/4 of the old filter in the new tank, however, due to the fish being a true carnivore, I would take half the filter materials from an established filter and put them in the new filter. This should give you an instant cycled filter with enough good bacteria to keep the water clean.

You should also monitor ammonia and nitrite levels daily for a few weeks to make sure the filters are settling down and keeping the water clean. And if you get any ammonia or nitrite readings, do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean, and reduce feeding to once every couple of days.
I dose i the tank with this
 

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Any tetra from South America will be fine. Neons, glolights & cardinal tetras are found there but if you are breeding guppies and only feeding them once a week, and the fish gets other types of food for the rest of the week, I wouldn't worry about tetras and just keep doing what you are doing.

------------------------
Getting back to your original question, (we all got side tracked), because the fish is a meat eater, you need an established biological filter on its tank otherwise you will get high ammonia levels and these will kill the fish.

Fluttermoth suggested using 1/4 of the old filter in the new tank, however, due to the fish being a true carnivore, I would take half the filter materials from an established filter and put them in the new filter. This should give you an instant cycled filter with enough good bacteria to keep the water clean.

You should also monitor ammonia and nitrite levels daily for a few weeks to make sure the filters are settling down and keeping the water clean. And if you get any ammonia or nitrite readings, do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean, and reduce feeding to once every couple of days.
Also here are thank tank right now
 

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You need to do a 75% water change now. The ammonia and nitrite reading are pretty high and will harm the fish.

Do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean each day until the ammonia and nitrite are on 0.
Make sure any new water is free from chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Reduce feeding to once every second day.

Get some established filter material into the new tank asap to help remove the ammonia and nitrite.

-----------------------
The liquid bacterial supplement can be double dosed and added each day to help speed things up. Try to add it to the filter or put it in the tank new the filter's intake tube so the bacteria get drawn into the filter.
 
You need to do a 75% water change now. The ammonia and nitrite reading are pretty high and will harm the fish.

Do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean each day until the ammonia and nitrite are on 0.

Reduce feeding to once every second day.

Get some established filter material into the new tank asap to help remove the ammonia and nitrite.

-----------------------
The liquid bacterial supplement can be double dosed and added each day to help speed things up. Try to add it to the filter or put it in the tank new the filter's intake tube so the bacteria get drawn into the filter.
I forgot to say i moved him from the tank
 
fare enough :)

in which case add some established filter material to the new tank and wait until the ammonia and nitrite drop to 0, then move him back.
 

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