Newbie questions

DaveJH

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Hey guys
Im Dave. Very new to the hobby. Just finished setting my tank up yesterday. Its a 96litre long.
I'll be leaving it for 2 days before I begin cycling it (with ammonia). So thought id use that time to do a bit of testing. My water straight out of the tap has a PH of between 6.4 to 6.6. Stood some of it for 12hrs & a test of that has a PH of between 6.8 to 7.0. I'll be doing another test after it being stood for 24hrs, just to try & get a true reading.

My question is - when the cycle is done, fish are in, & I'm ready to do my first weekly water change, will I need to stand the change water 24hrs before hand, or will the fluctuation of 6.4 upto 7.0 PH not affect the fish with the 10-20% changed water?

My apologies if it seems like a dim question, but Im really new to all of this & I want to get it right
 
Welcome to TFF. :hi:

Tap water may often contain dissolved CO2, and this creates carbonic acid which then lowers the pH. Letting it sit 24 hours should outgas the CO2, and the reading you then have will be reliable. Shaking a sample of the tap water very vigorously for several moments can also outgas the CO2; some suggest the 24 hour method to be more reliable. [This does not need to be done with aquarium water, only fresh tap water.]

Along with pH, it is important (even more so) to know the hardness. GH is general or total hardness, and rather than waste money for a test kit you may only use the once, see if you can find this data on the website of your municipal water authority, While there, the KH (carbonate hardness or Alkalinity) is also worth knowing, as this buffers pH. Fish have preferences for hardness, more than for pH provided the latter is not extreme or volatile, so it is worth knowing which species will thrive in your water. Adjusting parameters is possible but involved and carries some risk.

Which brings me to your question about water changes. Assuming you use the tap water "as is" you should have no issues with water changes, though we do need to see the GH/KH numbers. Once an aquarium becomes established (the second phase, following initial cycling) the biological system will tend to be stable, assuming there are not too many or too large fish, fish are not being overfed, the species are compatible [which has to do with a great deal more than just bio load--another topic], and water changes are substantial and regular [more on this below]. And in any event, the CO2 outgases fairly rapidly once the tap water starts moving (the agitation again) as you run it into the tank.

I would certainly change more than 20-30%, though this somewhat depends upon stocking. Most of my tanks get a 60% or more change once each week. My QT that may sit for weeks without fish in it but only plants may get a smaller change, or some weeks maybe none, but that is an exception. A change of half the tank volume or just over is advisable.

Byron.
 
Hi Byron
Thank you for the welcome :)

Ok, so my tank is 96litre.
I dont have real plants. All silk & also a huge coral ornament. I plan on having a school of 6 Panda Corys & also a giant male Betta.
My water source says soft for hardness. Ill try to add a few pics.
 

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Hi Byron
Thank you for the welcome :)

Ok, so my tank is 96litre.
I dont have real plants. All silk & also a huge coral ornament. I plan on having a school of 6 Panda Corys & also a giant male Betta.
My water source says soft for hardness. Ill try to add a few pics.

OK. I converted the degrees Clarke to ppm (parts per million) and it is 12 ppm. This is less than 1 dGH (degree German, or degree hardness) which is very soft. This is pretty much what I have out of my tap too, mine is a tad less at 7 ppm.

The hobby tends to use either ppm or dGH so it is always wise to convert to one of these. I prefer dGH simply because the numbers are smaller and it is easier for me to remember what they mean. It is easy to convert back and forth using the number 17.9; multiply dGH by 17.9 to get the equivalent ppm, or divide ppm by 17.9 for the equivalent dGH. So in your case, 12 ppm divided by 17.9 is 0.67 dGH, or just under 1 dGH.

It is always good to have a number rather than a subjective word like "soft." I have seen a lot of variation in GH for the same term. And here in your case, very soft is more descriptive than soft, and will make a difference to fish.

The Betta and cories will bee fine as far as the GH goes. The pH will likely lower over time, becoming more acidic (below 7.0) which also will not be a problem.

Now, another thing...I would strongly recommend floating plants. Betta naturally expect to live among surface vegetation, so the Betta will be better off, meaning healthier. And cories do not appreciate overhead light so the shade helps them relax more. And plants are tremendous at keeping the water ideal; they take up a lot of ammonia/ammonium. If you have growing floating live plants you would not need to mess around with ammonia and cycling as the plants "silent cycle."

However...Betta re not community fish and are best on their own. However, a single Betta in a 96 liter (25 gallon) aquarium will seem pretty "empty." Cories may get along OK, though this is not a certainty. If I were you, I would re-think the Betta; you have the ideal space and water parameters for a tank of soft water species. I have 8 tanks in my fish room, full of such fish. I'll leave that thought with you, willing to detail if asked.

Byron.
 
Actually Byron, you'll find 2.03 deg Clarke convert to 1.6 dH and 29 ppm. Not that this makes much difference for the tank and its contents :)
 
Actually Byron, you'll find 2.03 deg Clarke convert to 1.6 dH and 29 ppm. Not that this makes much difference for the tank and its contents :)

Thanks Sue, it was indeed my error...I converted dClarke to ppm as calcium, not calcium carbonate, in the scale I used, hence the error. Glad you are awake even if I am not. :drinks:

And Dave, this is maybe even better (to have the slight increase) but as essjay said, really makes no difference when it comes to the fish. :fish:
 
Wow, thank you so much for working that out for me. My maths is shocking though so its great that you did that ha. Im reallllly new to the hobby but I intend to try my damnest to get it right & I will definitely look into floating plants. I'm in contact with a really good Betta breeder here in the UK & she is going to help source a very calm male for me so that there is less chance of any issues. Ill also be adding any other fish before the Betta so as to reduce the risk of him being territorial. I'm literally a less than a full day into my cycle having added my ammonia just today, so when the time comes, I may have changed my mind on the fish I will eventually keep. I just want to make sure I do my best to get everything right, hence why I came here. So I really do appreciate you guys taking the time to help me out
 
Sorry, forgot to ask - in your opinion, what fish would you suggest then for my water parameters?
 
Wow, thank you so much for working that out for me. My maths is shocking though so its great that you did that ha. Im reallllly new to the hobby but I intend to try my damnest to get it right & I will definitely look into floating plants. I'm in contact with a really good Betta breeder here in the UK & she is going to help source a very calm male for me so that there is less chance of any issues. Ill also be adding any other fish before the Betta so as to reduce the risk of him being territorial. I'm literally a less than a full day into my cycle having added my ammonia just today, so when the time comes, I may have changed my mind on the fish I will eventually keep. I just want to make sure I do my best to get everything right, hence why I came here. So I really do appreciate you guys taking the time to help me out

I am going to take the time to explain something as you seem willing to learn (not all new hobbyists are, sadly). And this has to do with the comments about the Betta.

First, we must always recognize that we need to provide what the fish "expect" rather than what we may want, in terms of the aquascape and species. Freshwater fish have evolved over thousands of years to be "at their best" in a specific environment. "Environment" here means not only the water parameters, but the aquascape (décor), water flow, numbers in the group for a shoaling species, and other species. If we want our fish to be truly healthy, we must understand these needs for the species and be prepared to provide them; if not, we are in the wrong hobby, because we are not going to change what is programmed into the fish's DNA just because it doesn't suit our intention.

Having said that, there is sometimes a degree of "adaptability," but if it is present at all (in many species it most assuredly is not), it is limited and pushing the boundaries will not lead to success. So we are wisest to assume the fish will be "normal," and not an exception to the norm. Individual fish can vary from the norm, due to various factors, but here again it is safest for the fish (and our sanity) not to try to force the fish into what is an artificial situation from what it "expects." Read the blue and green citations in my signature; this is what both sources are thinking about.

So, while some may have (or assume they have) a "peaceful" community Betta, it is not normal, and in fact it may not be so "peaceful" as they think. Down the road the Betta (or the tankmates) may decide they have had enough of this frustration, and do something about it--which usually means aggression, but sometimes can be the opposite and the fish literally wastes away. Frustration is not fair to the fish, any more than it is fair to subject a dog or a cat, or a person for that matter, to such a situation. And it is two-sided; the Betta may not appreciate the tankmates in his territory, but at the same time or alternatively the tankmates may find the Betta an easy target for bullying or fin nipping. And even if no physical signs are apparent, the fish are still sending out chemical signals called pheromones (read by others of that species) and allomones (read by other species), and this can be equally stressful for the fish. Unless you can somehow get inside the individual fish's mind, there is no way to "source a peaceful" fish when the species is deliberately bred to fight.

If you want a Betta, fine; the cories should be OK, but this is not guaranteed. Absolutely no upper fish should be considered. Assuming you want what is best for the fish. Cories like to play, and I have often seen them do this with upper fish too; nothing would annoy a Betta more than being hounded by playful fish.

Sorry, forgot to ask - in your opinion, what fish would you suggest then for my water parameters?

Only provided there is no Betta, you have quite a range of options. The tank is 96 liters (25 gallons)...what are the dimensions? Length and width are generally much more important for fish than volume, because of the territorial nature of many fish (even mildly so) and the level of activity in swimming; an active species needs more length than a sedate species. As for the parameters, most fish from South America and SE Asia are suited to soft water. Some are small, some larger; some fairly sedate, others rambunctious.
 
I have kept bettas one at a time for many years and I agree totally with Byron. I had to remove the snail from my current betta's tank as he was becoming very agitated whenever he saw it. With another betta several years ago I managed to get a woodlouse in the tank and it was quite an education watching the betta's reaction - he tried to take it apart. I would never keep a betta with any other fish.

I know that everyone is different and has differing tastes, but if this was my 90 litre tank I would not keep a betta in it. There are so many fish suitable for this sized tank and your water parameters, and you won't be able to buy any of them with a betta in the tank. I would find this incredibly frustrating. My way of avoiding this frustration is to have 2 tanks - a community tank and a small tank with just a betta. If you could fit another tank of around 25 litres, you could have a betta safely in his own tank away from any potential problems. This would leave the 90 litre open to a much wider range of fish that would be possible with a betta as one of the fish.
 
Its a done deal then. No Betta in the tank! I never even considered behavior changes in the fishes future but thats why I'm here - to learn more from people like yourselves with way more wisdom & experience. I'll see how I go with this tank first before thinking seriously about a smaller one. My son seems to be really interested too, so that may be an option, to let him have a small Betta set up. Hes 16 so has somewhat of a sensible head on his shoulders.

Its 76x36x43

I tried to post a pic but said the file is too large
 

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