20 Gallon Tank Stocking Ideas

Souperman said:

Thanks for the response. Using seriously fish I am seeing that my blue ram can be kept down to 72 degrees unless I am using the wrong scientific name and for the cory it says to keep them between 72 and 78 degrees. So does this open up a opportunity for me to lower my water temp to be in a more decent range for both species?

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I do not know where that range came from, but it has now been corrected to read 26-30. Thanks for pointing it out.

I did a quick check of some reliable authors and came up with the following. Link & Staeck (1994) in their book on dwarf cichlids report water data as temperature 28.5 C at 10 am on an overcast day when the air temperature was "relatively cool" for the area at 31 C.

Ivan Mikolji has filmed in many Venezuelan watercourses, and his videos are available on YouTube. In an article in TFH on the habitat of Mikrogeophagus ramirezi he gives the water temperature at 82F. Other similar sources give 80-86 F as the normal day temperatures of the water. On the dwarf cichlid site, it mentions this species being collected in water as warm as 88 F, and notes it likely gets very much above this some days. The Llanos pools where this fish lives are usually about a foot in depth, sometimes two feet at most, so such water in sun will become very warm.

This species has an expected normal lifespan of around 4 years. It needs to be kept at 80F to achieve this, according to the reports I have come across over the past few years. When I last had it, in my community tank at 77F (this was some 20 years ago before I knew about temperature issues) it lived about a year each time. I now know why.

Back to your situation...I frankly would be kinder to the cories and neon tetras; keeping these fish anywhere near 80F will not work. The fish's homeostasis is governed by temperature (along with other parameters) and it is therefore important.

Byron.

By the time you notice any changes in the health of the cories it will be too late, the internal damage will have occurred. You usually won't see any signs anyway, until the fish just dies. You cannot alter the physiology of a fish, and it is usually cruel to the fish to try.

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Good advice there I would listen to it.

Sadly where I am living at currently I won't be able to have more then one tank so do you think for the well being of my fish the best option here would be to rehome the blue ram and get something that is better suited to the other fish in the tanks temperature requirements?

NickAu said:

Good advice there I would listen to it.

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I am going to. Trying to figure out what to do now .When I wrote my original plan out yesterday I had not had time to think this whole thing through yet.

Souperman said:

Sadly where I am living at currently I won't be able to have more then one tank so do you think for the well being of my fish the best option here would be to rehome the blue ram and get something that is better suited to the other fish in the tanks temperature requirements?

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That would be the best option, yes.

While I do not want to knowingly suggest something that is harmful to any fish, there are times when we may find ourselves in such a situation. Here, as I mentioned previously, I would provide the best environment for the cories and neons. Doing the opposite, catering to the ram's needs, would impede the cories and neons.

Byron.

Thanks for the response I am going to try to try to rehome him today for the wellbeing of the other fish. I have done some research and I now have some ideas of some fish that will better suit my tank then him.

Souperman said:

Thanks for the response I am going to try to try to rehome him today for the wellbeing of the other fish. I have done some research and I now have some ideas of some fish that will better suit my tank then him.

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Don't hesitate to run those ideas past us first. A 20g tank is not voluminous, and the neons and cories are not crowding it by any means, but one does have to be vigilant. More "obvious" fish than small shoaling species are very tricky in small tanks. B.

Okay will do. I was currently thinking of maybe a dwarf gouranami or maybe a smaller apisto. They both seem to fit my tank parameters. Florida Flagfish also interest me just worried about aggression. Trying to stay away from another shoaling fish because I think with the neons it will make the tank look very crowded.

Souperman said:

Okay will do. I was currently thinking of maybe a dwarf gouranami or maybe a smaller apisto. They both seem to fit my tank parameters. Florida Flagfish also interest me just worried about aggression. Trying to stay away from another shoaling fish because I think with the neons it will make the tank look very crowded.

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Neons and cories are lower level fish. Normally, neons remain in the lower half of an aquarium. So you want to be looking at upper level species to balance the visual aspect, but also keep thee fish more spread out so they each have more of their own space so to speak.

Dwarf gourami is not a good fish, unless you can get them from a reliable breeder. I don't mean the store, I mean the actual source of the fish, usually the breeder or collector. Dwarf gourami are known carriers of iridovirus, which is not treatable. This is still a concern, especially with fish from SE Asia, but it can infect stocks of the species without really being noticed, and spread through whole hatcheries.

The Honey Goourami is a better option, similar in colour, and somewhat more peaceful. A trio (1 male, two females) would be nice if you want a gourami.

Apistogramma is hit and miss, and while a 20g is fine for a spawning pair alone, I would want a larger surface (substrate) for permanent maintenance with other fish. The other thing about cichlids is they are lower water level fish, so you would be filling the bottom third of the water column and leaving the top open. The gourami of course would solve this aspect.

Hatchetfish are nice for the surface area; given the tank size, I would only recommend the smaller species in the genus Carnegiella. The often-seen Marble Hatchetfish is Carnegiella strigata, and a group of 8-10 would be fine. These species are also less active than their larger cousins which need more space. Some of the pencilfish are upper water fish, thinking of Nannostomus eques, which swims at an oblique angle so that can be interesting. Also very sedate and a peaceful fish, a group of 7-8 would work. They spend most of their time close to the surface; floating plants are needed, as they like to swim sedately among the dangling roots, picking off microscopic critters.

Neither of these are especially colourful, but one can't have everything. There are others, but this may give you an idea of what to look for.

Is the honey goranami something that would need to come from a breeder like the dwarf or is it not a carrier of the disease? Also what is your opinion on the Florida flag fish? Every source I visit has a different story on them? Also something else I was thinking about was possibly a trio of livebearers because I know some of them swim too water. Don't really know if they match my parameters though.

Souperman said:

Is the honey goranami something that would need to come from a breeder like the dwarf or is it not a carrier of the disease? Also what is your opinion on the Florida flag fish? Every source I visit has a different story on them? Also something else I was thinking about was possibly a trio of livebearers because I know some of them swim too water. Don't really know if they match my parameters though.

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So far as I have read, Honey Gourami are not a risk. There is however not complete agreement among aquarists if the iridovirus can be passed to other species or not.

On the Flag Fish, assuming it is this one, I have no personal experience and cannot offer more than what is here:
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/jordanella-floridae/

Livebearers require moderately hard or harder water, and no mention of GH, KH and pH has been made in this thread. If you have soft to very soft water, suited to the fish mentioned so far, this won't work. And livebearers need a lot of space, depending upon the species obviously, but they are more active swimmers.

Okay thanks for the info before I make a final choice I think I am going to try to find some more info on flag fish before I rule them out completely.

Update: Unless I find any new information I think I may try a trio of flagfish. I am reading that they should be okay with other fish and I don't have anything that they can really fin nip.

2 Quick Questions
Now that I have re homed the ram what should I set my tank temp to be?
Also how old to honey gourami have to be to color up? When I turned my ram back to the pet store they said they had a male honey gourami but it's coloration was not that bright. This may just be because of it's age though.

Souperman said:

Okay thanks for the info before I make a final choice I think I am going to try to find some more info on flag fish before I rule them out completely.

Update: Unless I find any new information I think I may try a trio of flagfish. I am reading that they should be okay with other fish and I don't have anything that they can really fin nip.

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I would respectfully suggest that this is not a wise move. From my reading of the data on SF it seems clear that a 20g is sufficient for one or a pair of the Flag Fish, alone. Larger quarters are suggested for either more flags or other fish. And from my 25 years of fish keeping, aside from anything else, that makes sense given the other info about the species.

Another point on "trying" something that may not work...this is something none of us should ever do unless we have in place a solid back-up. I have 8 tanks in my dedicated fish room, and I can "try" as new species because I know I have options for re-homing it should the need arise. And a few times this has been necessary, and with fish that behaved very differently to all the literature. Stores will not always take back problems, and finding another aquarist is not always easy. And the poor fish are the losers.

Souperman said:

2 Quick Questions
Now that I have re homed the ram what should I set my tank temp to be?
Also how old to honey gourami have to be to color up? When I turned my ram back to the pet store they said they had a male honey gourami but it's coloration was not that bright. This may just be because of it's age though.

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With neons and cories, a temperature around 75-76F (23-24 C) is OK long-term; they can manage with higher temperatures but not long-term. Could be cooler, in the low 70's F, but I'm thinking you may get other fish that need something different, and there are a lot of suitable fish for 75/76F.

Fish in stores frequently lack colour. They are under incredible stress, even in the best stores. Especially if the fish are in relatively bare tanks--which is understandable because of the logistics--this is severe stress to a fish that has an expectation of living among thick plants programmed into its DNA. Water quality is often less than ideal, again not always without good reason, but that doesn't diminish thee effect this has on fish.

Photo below of male/female to show the difference; the "male" may actually be a female sometimes due to poor conditions.