Fish dying... This should not be happening.

I just want to say that I am a very experienced fish keeper and I know what I am doing with my tanks, but I think I may have made a couple mistakes I need to learn from. From aquatic experience I bought 2 bolivian rams from imperial tropicals. I've never owned the fish before but I thought I would get a pair and hope to breed them but they could not sex them there. I don't know if I have 1m/1f or 2f or 2m or what. I have them in my newly setup 29 gallon planted. It was cycled a long time before they came home with me. i put them in and I never really saw them eating and to this day I don't see them eating or anything.

Now to this past week or two. 2 weeks ago I bought 8 sterbai corydoras and 4 otocats for my 29 gallon. I put them in and they were fine. over the course of these past 2 weeks I found 3 otocats dead, and just a few days ago I found a corycat dead. The cory actually got stuck trying to hunt for a piece of food under a rock... so I blame death by stupidity... Haha. the otocats get me mad though. I feed them wafers and there's LOTS of plants in this tank. I am pretty sure the bolivian rams kill them but not sure.

Also last weekend I put a german blue ram in the tank as well, just to see if it was violence between fish that was killing the autocats. The GBR seemed fine, he kinda hid and there was some nipping between ram species but today I found him dead. He was bottom up on the sand. I'm pretty sure it happened last night. I think the bolivian rams are doing th is. Can someone help me and clear this up for me?? I put one of the rams into my 36g bow front with 4 other rainbows in there and a albino BN pleco. I'm not sure if it's tank aggression or if I have a bio problem with the tank which I doubt but still a chance.

Also does anyone wanna buy a school of 6 emerald corydoras?? I'm trying to clear out space in some tanks and these guys won't breed for me.

cooledwhip said:

From aquatic experience I bought 2 bolivian rams from imperial tropicals. I've never owned the fish before but I thought I would get a pair and hope to breed them but they could not sex them there. I don't know if I have 1m/1f or 2f or 2m or what. I have them in my newly setup 29 gallon planted. It was cycled a long time before they came home with me. i put them in and I never really saw them eating and to this day I don't see them eating or anything.

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Sexing Bolivian Rams (Mikrogeophagus altispinosa) visually is next to impossible unless the fish are mature and in breeding condition. The best way is to observe the group in the store tank for 15+ minutes, remaining very still; the interaction of males should become fairly obvious--they will sort of charge at one another, usually never actually coming into contact, though they might if two with strong motivations interact. The females will be sort of hovering around, picking at the substrate for food, etc. Notice then that the males will usually allow certain females to be close while all this is going on. These male/female will likely bond, though there is no guarantee.

Cichlids select their own mates. Ths applies to most species. Putting a male and female together may result in a bond, but often it does not. This is why many recommend purchasing a group and letting the pair form. Problem with this is, you then have "surplus" fish that need to be re-homed (unless the tank is very large indeed) if you intend successful spawning. Parental care of eggs and fry may be strong, but still some risk is involved.

This species is believed to live in isolation in their habitat, pairing up to spawn but otherwise solitary. Which is why a male makes such a wonderful cichlid in community tanks of non-cichlids. I had one in my 5-foot 115g South American riverscape, and this cichlid owned the tank and kept the 100+ characins in line throughout his 8 year life. With a normal lifespan of 4, maybe 5 years, living to be in his eighth year was quite rewarding. Observing him literally marshaling the other fish when he decided they were becoming an annoyance was fascinating.

As for feeding, like most cichlids they are bottom feeders, so while they may grab food as it sinks, they prefer to eat substrate foods like shrimp pellets, disks, tabs; in other words, feed them sinking foods normally given to catfish and loaches. My Bolivian never once went to the surface all the time I had him.

cooledwhip said:

Now to this past week or two. 2 weeks ago I bought 8 sterbai corydoras and 4 otocats for my 29 gallon. I put them in and they were fine. over the course of these past 2 weeks I found 3 otocats dead, and just a few days ago I found a corycat dead. The cory actually got stuck trying to hunt for a piece of food under a rock... so I blame death by stupidity... Haha. the otocats get me mad though. I feed them wafers and there's LOTS of plants in this tank. I am pretty sure the bolivian rams kill them but not sure.

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It is rather unlikely the Bolivian Rams would kill the Otocinclus; for one thing, the two inhabit different levels in the aquarium (or should). But if this is the case, you would have seen evidence; cichlids that take a dislike to another fish will make that very obvious if you take time to sit quietly and observe the aquarium.

I would be more inclined to suspect the Otos starved. This fish is wild caught, and between the capture and arriving in the store, they are not fed. When introduced to an aquarium, they will not eat prepared foods, generally speaking. The aquarium should be established, with algae present on surfaces. This allows the otos to settle normally, eating natural algae, and over time they will become accustomed to prepared foods like sinking algae wafers, etc. It is unfortunately common to have new otos die due to starvation.

cooledwhip said:

Also last weekend I put a german blue ram in the tank as well, just to see if it was violence between fish that was killing the autocats. The GBR seemed fine, he kinda hid and there was some nipping between ram species but today I found him dead. He was bottom up on the sand. I'm pretty sure it happened last night. I think the bolivian rams are doing th is. Can someone help me and clear this up for me?? I put one of the rams into my 36g bow front with 4 other rainbows in there and a albino BN pleco. I'm not sure if it's tank aggression or if I have a bio problem with the tank which I doubt but still a chance.

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Adding the common or blue ram (Mikrogeophagus ramirezi) in this situation was a mistake as you've now learned. The Bolivian, assuming one of them is a male, would have decided this tank is their space, period, and another cichlid in so small an area (to the fish) is almost guaranteed to fail. Most cichlids are best on their own with other tankmates meaning non-cichlids, if well chosen.

very well said byron

Yes I didn't know they had to eat bottom feeder food. I will continue to feed them bottom feeder discs. As for the otos, I moved the 1 from the 29 into a school of 6 i have in a 10 gallon along with some tetras and a pair of gbrs. I will feed lots of algae wafers in hopes of them eating them.

As for the rams. I for sure can't keep them together even if the cause of death of other fish was not that of the rams. I can keep 1 ram in the tank right? And with other ram species like german blues and electric blues?? I love rams.

I don't know what to do with the other bolivian ram. Could he go in a 45 gallon with neon tetras, and rainbowfish species? Thanks.

cooledwhip said:

As for the rams. I for sure can't keep them together even if the cause of death of other fish was not that of the rams. I can keep 1 ram in the tank right? And with other ram species like german blues and electric blues?? I love rams.

I don't know what to do with the other bolivian ram. Could he go in a 45 gallon with neon tetras, and rainbowfish species? Thanks.

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If the Bolivian Rams are not getting along, they must be separated. They should be fine on their own in community tanks of non-cichlid fish. The two ram species should not be together. Your 29g tank is not sufficient space for other cichlids with a Bolivian Ram.

Otos can also eat zucchini or romaine lettuce leaves as well. This is a nice 'in between' option for these fish to get them eating again.

Byron said:

If the Bolivian Rams are not getting along, they must be separated. They should be fine on their own in community tanks of non-cichlid fish. The two ram species should not be together. Your 29g tank is not sufficient space for other cichlids with a Bolivian Ram.

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Ok... geez that sucks I really wanted to have lots of ram species in the tank. Now I'm stuck with 2 bolivian rams.

Would I be able to keep a single bolivian ram with a couple dwarf puffers? I'm just trying to work my tanks out and stocking on all of them.

cooledwhip said:

Ok... geez that sucks I really wanted to have lots of ram species in the tank. Now I'm stuck with 2 bolivian rams.

Would I be able to keep a single bolivian ram with a couple dwarf puffers? I'm just trying to work my tanks out and stocking on all of them.

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Short answer to your question is no. Dwarf puffers are not community fish.

Byron said:

Short answer to your question is no. Dwarf puffers are not community fish.

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Ok.
Shoot I don't know what to do with these rams. I've got to place them into some tanks. You said they are good just without any other cichlid species? Could they do well with some rainbowfish, cories, and some tetras? in a 45 gallon?

Also I found another dead cory. I believe this one died because it got stuck in a crack in some rocks I had. Can someone verify this? Look at the red mark on the side of it's head. I filled the crack with sand but I just want to be sure that's why they are dying and not something else. It's a shame to see a nice fish go to waste. I need to breed these guys, I can't keep buying more. Thanks.

Here are some pics

The first pic is how I found it this morning. unmoved or anything (unmoved from me). I assume it got stuck and the water current maybe pushed it out. I don't know.
I hope it's not the bolivian ram attacking.

cooledwhip said:

Ok.
Shoot I don't know what to do with these rams. I've got to place them into some tanks. You said they are good just without any other cichlid species? Could they do well with some rainbowfish, cories, and some tetras? in a 45 gallon?

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Yes and no. The problem now is that the blue ram should have warm temperatures, meaning 80F and up. Many other fish cannot last at these temperatures, fish like corys (the Sterbai can which is why it is often seen in with discus which is also warm water). Rainbows may have issues too, depending upon the species. Same with tetras. The higher the temperature we keep fish, the faster their metabolism functions, even if they can withstand the temperature itself, so it is always best to stay in the mid-range for a species, with some exceptions.

Don't take this the wrong way...but this is an example of acquiring fish without fully researching their requirements and such. As you can see, if when we have several tanks, it can still be difficult to adequately provide for them.

cooledwhip said:

Also I found another dead cory. I believe this one died because it got stuck in a crack in some rocks I had. Can someone verify this? Look at the red mark on the side of it's head. I filled the crack with sand but I just want to be sure that's why they are dying and not something else. It's a shame to see a nice fish go to waste. I need to breed these guys, I can't keep buying more. Thanks.

Here are some picsView attachment 81879 View attachment 81880

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I think something else is doing this. How long have you had these corys? Were they quarantined for a few weeks? How were they acclimated? What are the water parameters? Has ammonia, nitrite, nitrate been tested?

Corys are rather delicate fish. They have a zero tolerance of ammonia, and nitrite obviously, and nitrate must be kept low. They do not at all like being netted or moved, so this is highly stressful and they are easy to damage internally with the net, I've seen this happen in stores.

They are cared for very well, water params are perfect.

I'm almost sure it's them getting stuck.

And yes, I research every fish before I purchase it. After having 10 tanks and numerous species you lose track and forget parameters after having kept them so successfully in tanks. I don't worry about parameters (I haven't) for a while because I have never had a problem like this.

They were QTed in THIS tank. I didn't put them in a real QT because there was only 2 fish in the current 29 they are in. The rams which I removed 1. I believe this to be a problem with them getting stuck like I said, so I will keep my eye out for any problems more. I will do some big water changes this weekend just in case the nitrates are creeping up.