Floating Plants?

Ok, so I just placed an order for the water sprite Ceratopteris cornuta. I've been trying the water sprite Ceratopteris thalictroides. It isn't doing well. So...my question is....any other plant ideas that would grow in harder water with low tech and low light if this new water sprite doesn't work?? I have tried frog bit before but not with this new light. It did well for a bit and then started dying off. Does water lettuce get huge? I've read it can but wasn't sure. Unless they have different types? I don't want duckweed. Any other plants that might work? So far I've got anubias plants and some crypt wendtii and retrospiralis growing. Wendtii awesome. Retro is just starting. Lol. But looking good. I put in some dwarf sag but it doesn't seen to be wanting to take off. One corkscrew val starting to show new leaves but not sure if it will take off or not. Hope this helps!

I also have a glass top on my aquarium. Forgot to mention that. I have to have it because I have cats. Lol.

Water lettuce grows according to the environmental conditions.  One sometimes sees references to "dwarf" water lettuce, but there is no such plant, it is just the one species and form, Pistia stratiotes.  However, it grows differently according to light and nutrients.  I had this in my outdoor pond a few summers, and it grew to the size of a diner plate.  I have it in a couple tanks, and in one it has always remained small (less than 2 inches across), in another it will get 4-5 inches.  But the plantlets are so many you can easily discard larger plants periodically and keep smaller ones.
 
Glass cover is a good thing.  Some will suggest open tops allow better air circulation, and this may have some impact on some floating plants.  I know it does not on Water Sprite, and my Water Lettuce doesn't seem to mind.  The Frogbit I'm not sure--I have the temperate species, not the tropical (discovered this when it initially flowered) and I suspect the troubles with this plant may be more due to constant tropical temperatures.  It does like a lot of nutrients though...but your harder water may be better than my very soft water on this aspect.
 
Water Sprite should settle in.  It does not like being moved, even to other tanks.  This is a beautiful plant though.
 
Dwarf Sag is not a fast grower for many, and certainly not for me.  My pygmy chain swords grow like weeds in any tank, but the sag does not.  Vallisneria did fairly well, hampered by my soft water, so once settled that should do well for you.
 
Byron.

Water Lettuce is a wild man when it comes to reproduction.  I used it on my outdoor pond a few years back, and had so much, i wound up selling a lot at a yard sale i had for a dollar a plant.  I liked the long roots hanging down in the aquarium, gave me the feeling of watching some of the bad stuff just getting sucked right outta my tank automatically  

I knew there was another little sword...couldn't remember its name for the life of me. I think I've tried the micro sword before and it didn't do well, but I didn't have this light either. Im wanting to say that dwarf sag is a higher light plant than what it says. It was growing rapidly in my 5 gallon until the cyanobacteria took over. That problem is going away now with the blue slime remover I have. One more dose and I hope it clears. But I took some sag out of it to see and it hasn't really done much in the 20. Too far away from light plus lots if tannins. (I had it I'm my 10 gal once before I out driftwood in it. It was doing amazing but once the tannins got in there...nothing. lol.)

Now does the water flow matter much? I was reading somewhere today that water lettuce does better with lower flow. Even water sprite and frog bit.(and water lettuce said it doesn't like the leaves to be wet?) I've got a decent flow in my 20 gal. But I can always try to get a ball valve(right??) to put on the output line if needed. I have one section of the spray facing the back and one facing sort of straight towards the opposite wall and it still blows my current water sprite to one corner. If I did them both to the back and down then it blows my retrospiralis a lot.

Seeing as how the crypts are doing good I was thinking of crypt parva for foreground but read from many sources it grows slowly. Maybe the pygmy chain would be a better choice. Would it need root tabs like the big swords?

Micro sword is a different plant, and one that I find doesn't do well.  I think it is better with brighter light and more nutrients, perhaps including diffused CO2.  Species is Lilaeopsis brasiliensis, though I have seen data on another species but no idea how it does.
 
The chain swords are Helanthium tenellum (the smaller of two species, it may still be seen under the old name Echinodorus tenellus) and a slightly larger species Helanthium bolivianum (may be seen under the "tenellum" name or Echinodorus quadricostatis or some other Echinodorus, this group of plants was taxonomically confused for many years).  I have good success with both of these, and have for over 20 years.  H. tenellum is very, very similar to Sagittaria subulata.  I have all three, and the micro too, though as I say the S. subulata and micro do not do very well.
 
I only use liquid fertilizers with the chain swords; substrate has been fine gravel (for years) and now play sand.  Tabs are used next to the larger swords, but in some tanks these are absent so there is no substrate fertilizing and the chain swords still thrive.  I'll attach a photo of my former 29g (moved all this into a new 40g a couple weeks back) which had only the H. bolivianum and floating Pennywort.  You can see the chain sword runners along the front.
 
I wouldn't worry much about water flow, provided the plants can remain on the surface.  Once they grow, they will stretch across the tank of course, and then tend to remain in place.  But you don't want them being buffeted about.

Thanks for the info Byron! I do think I'll try the pygmy chain sword eventually. Maybe the water lettuce. Though I do like the frogbit. Lol. Hopefully I can get some good plants to grow! I think I tried moneywort once with no luck either. I like your pennywort. I may try that one too. But who knows. I want at least some really good floaters so my stocking can be better and the fish healthier. Right now I'm having a slight issue with hair algae. This came after adding one root tab per bunch of retrospiralis(2 all together) and a dose of my aqueon plant food. It says it adds micro and macro nutrients. I think I'm going to get a phosphate test kit. I've read that high phosphates can cause hair algae and cyanobacteria(which I think is getting better in my 5 gallon!). Would this be a good route o go?

One quick question that doesn't have to do with plants....I'm going to purchase 2 red calico regular fin bristlenoses from a seller on aquabid. I plan on putting them in a 10 gallon quarantine tub for a while. One will stay in the 20 gallon and the other will go in the big one I'm rebuilding. After quarantine, can they both go into the 20 for a bit until I get the 55 up or should one stay in the ten until I get my big tank up? They won't be big enough to sex when I get them so wasn't sure if I could put them together or not. I know 10 won't be good enough for real long for both though.

Thanks for the info Byron! I do think I'll try the pygmy chain sword eventually. Maybe the water lettuce. Though I do like the frogbit. Lol. Hopefully I can get some good plants to grow! I think I tried moneywort once with no luck either. I like your pennywort. I may try that one too. But who knows. I want at least some really good floaters so my stocking can be better and the fish healthier. Right now I'm having a slight issue with hair algae. This came after adding one root tab per bunch of retrospiralis(2 all together) and a dose of my aqueon plant food. It says it adds micro and macro nutrients. I think I'm going to get a phosphate test kit. I've read that high phosphates can cause hair algae and cyanobacteria(which I think is getting better in my 5 gallon!). Would this be a good route o go?
 

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You're welcome.  I would not fuss over phosphates.  This is one of several nutrients that can cause problem algae, as light can as well (too little or too much in balance).  You could see if you can find the data for your municipal water, and see if phosphates are mentioned; if not, then fish food and plant fertilizers are the only likely sources of phosphate, and this won't be much.  Having natural phosphate in the source water is a different matter, easily confirmed.
 
Root tabs shouldn't cause imbalances and algae, though I wouldn't swear to this.  I use substrate tabs.
 

One quick question that doesn't have to do with plants....I'm going to purchase 2 red calico regular fin bristlenoses from a seller on aquabid. I plan on putting them in a 10 gallon quarantine tub for a while. One will stay in the 20 gallon and the other will go in the big one I'm rebuilding. After quarantine, can they both go into the 20 for a bit until I get the 55 up or should one stay in the ten until I get my big tank up? They won't be big enough to sex when I get them so wasn't sure if I could put them together or not. I know 10 won't be good enough for real long for both though.
 

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I doubt this would be a problem, at their small size and for a relatively short period (several weeks).  Males are territorial, and if you happen to get two males, they must jostle for position or preferred "homes" in the wood, but likely not problematic.  They do need wood though, even in QT, which will settle them faster if nothing else.

I have well water so nobody to ask. Thats why I was thinking of the test. Before I had the plants and different lights I didn't have the algae problem. So it's probably more the lighting than anything. But maybe it's my liquid plant food a bit too. Maybe I should do smaller doses more often instead of all at once. I'm still new to the plants so it's taking me time to experiment and learn stuff! Thanks for the great info though. You have helped me majorly alot.

I will have wood in the quarantine. And I have it in the 20 now already. Other than the wood I have a dragon decoration they could go in in the 20 but I can also add some slate caves and I have some PVC pipe as well if they were 2 males. I will probably keep them in quarantine for at least three to four weeks just in case. Now...if I ended up with a male and female...when would they try to breed? I don't really want to breed them so I'd want to separate before that for sure.

cowgirluntamed said:

I have well water so nobody to ask. Thats why I was thinking of the test. Before I had the plants and different lights I didn't have the algae problem. So it's probably more the lighting than anything. But maybe it's my liquid plant food a bit too. Maybe I should do smaller doses more often instead of all at once. I'm still new to the plants so it's taking me time to experiment and learn stuff! Thanks for the great info though. You have helped me majorly alot.

I will have wood in the quarantine. And I have it in the 20 now already. Other than the wood I have a dragon decoration they could go in in the 20 but I can also add some slate caves and I have some PVC pipe as well if they were 2 males. I will probably keep them in quarantine for at least three to four weeks just in case. Now...if I ended up with a male and female...when would they try to breed? I don't really want to breed them so I'd want to separate before that for sure.

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The wood was as much for their health as places to hide, and both are crucial for these plecos.  While it is believed they do not obtain nutrients from eating wood, it is important for the healthy functioning of their digestive tract, esp the intestines.
 
I don't know how long before they might spawn, if a pair.  If this were me, I would only get one, if you want to avoid males fighting and pairs breeding.
 
On the plants/algae issue.  This well water is a bit different.  Are there nitrates in the water?  Which plant fertiliser...most of the supplements won't contain much in the way of phosphates (phosphor).  Perhaps a local fish store will test for phosphates?  

Yep. I learned about the wood from you a bit ago. I knew they needed it but you explained the why, so they will always have access to it to eat as well as to hide.

Well, I want one for the 20 and one for the 55. They wouldn't be together in the 20 for long hopefully. But would it be ok to keep one in the ten gallon tub by itself then (until the 55 is up) if I don't put them both in the 20? I don't know if this seller would ship less than two. And I'd only have to pay one shipping charge.

My fertilizer is http/www.aqueonproducts.com/products/aquarium-plant-food.htm . Aqueon plant food. I used two flourish root tabs for the retrospiralis. As for nitrates, the last time I tested I had 5ppm in the well water. My tanks usually sit around 20 but most of the time a bit lower than that.

I don't really have a local fish store. Just petsmart and as far as I know they don't test for that. I don't think it's too expensive for the phosphate test kit by API. I can get it online if you think I should.

Also, if you think it's best to wait a little longer on getting the 2 fish until I know a bit more when my 55 is going to be ready I can do that too. Might be better anyway as I don't want to stress them out. I'm thinking at the least maybe 2 months. I have to finish cleaning it and put it back together and make sure it will hold water. I also have to build the stand. Lol. Then comes cycling....can I add plants during the cycling process? I'll probably not be able to buy them all at once so may not be able to do a silent cycle like you've suggested before. And I want to learn how to do the regular cycle as well as I've never really done it with pure ammonia. And I kinda want to get a good thing of floating plants growing to make the switch for my current fish better.

Well, I want one for the 20 and one for the 55. They wouldn't be together in the 20 for long hopefully. But would it be ok to keep one in the ten gallon tub by itself then (until the 55 is up) if I don't put them both in the 20? I don't know if this seller would ship less than two. And I'd only have to pay one shipping charge.
 

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That's fine.  After the QT period, I'd move the one into the 20g and leave the other until the 55g is ready.  Fish should not be moved more often than necessary.
 
You posted again as I was typing this post...to that question, I would wait.  I would have the fish in QT a minimum of four weeks, but five or even six would be preferable.  It would be good to have the new tank somewhat settled (unless you wait months it won't be "established" of course) before introducing fish, to lessen the impact of the tank change for the pleco out of QT.
 

I don't really have a local fish store. Just petsmart and as far as I know they don't test for that. I don't think it's too expensive for the phosphate test kit by API. I can get it online if you think I should.
 

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I wouldn't bother myself.  The fact that the algae is recent suggests it is less likely the water and more likely something in the aquarium that changed, such as light and/or fertilisers.  Of course, with well water, nothing says it may not change composition, but I'm not leaning to this view.
 

My fertilizer is http/www.aqueonpro...-plant-food.htm . Aqueon plant food. I used two flourish root tabs for the retrospiralis. As for nitrates, the last time I tested I had 5ppm in the well water. My tanks usually sit around 20 but most of the time a bit lower than that.
 

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OK, there's no phosphorus in the Aqueon.  There is in the tabs, but this should not be a problem, as Seachem insists that the nutrients in the tabs do not enter the water column except at the roots as the plants need them [I'm currently doing some experimenting on this point, nothing conclusive yet, but it seems accurate].  Nitrate can be algae-inducing but not here, though you will likely get them a tad lower with the plants once the tanks are settled.  Mine tend to run between 0 and 5 ppm except for one that is at 10 ppm but that is another story.
 

can I add plants during the cycling process?
 

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Yes, but very carefully.  Ammonia is toxic to all life forms, at sufficient levels.  Now, some do plant tanks that are cycling, but you have to keep the ammonia low to avoid damaging the plants.  And aside from this, live plants need nitrogen and most aquatic species prefer this as ammonium (ammonia) rather than nitrate, and they will take up the latter after the ammonia.  This is what some term "silent cycling," because you never see ammonia or nitrite with our tests.  Some will get to the nitrifying bacteria, but minimally compared to full-scale fishless cycling.  Fast growing plants, particularly floating, are virtual ammonia sinks.  Once the tank is planted, and the plants are showing growth, I add the first fish.  When I set up a new tank using plants and wood from my other tank, which is normal now, I don't usually wait because the fish can go in within a day or two.  I would take it slow though.  I've never had issues.
 
Byron.

Thanks again Byron! I may just wait a bit longer on getting the plecos. That way I can make sure stuff is getting done properly.

I think it may be my lighting as well as a tiny bit of this liquid fertilizer. It's not much in my 20 so I'm not particularly worried.

As for plants, I'll get the ones in my 20 hopefully going good, at least with the floating I hope! I'll let the big tank go through its cycle I think before adding any. Then I can try getting the floating plants going in there first along with my current fish that will go in. Should work pretty well. I'm getting excited!

Thanks again for all the amazing help Byron! I'm learning alot and loving almost every minute of it! Lol!

(Also thanks to everybody else that contributed to this thread too! I may be trying the water lettuce soon!)