Gbr Badly Swollen Gills

Hi, i recently bought 2 german blue rams. They settled in brilliantly. Beautiful colours and eating well. They were even swimming round with my school of different danios (i got 5, one of each species on sale). Two days ago both my rams lost all colour and went rather cloudy. The next morning colour had. Same happened last nite but this time my male ram didnt get all his colour back. His head went almost black and was sitting at the surface head up at a 45° angle breathing heavily. Now he has gone to the bottom of the tank.. hes not on the floor he is about 3cm from bottom and his gills are extreamly inflammed. He has not moved all day isnt responsive in the way that if i walked past they would scarper and hide. Now he just sits there. Ive dropped food infront of him but it didnt entice him to move. Please help. He is a beautiful fish and when he was ok he was almost all blue the only one like it in the tank.

have you checked your water stats ... pH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate at the very least

Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 40ppm
Ph is about 7.8 - 8.0
Temp 25-28°c
30% w/c EVERY sunday
Feed a variety of frozen food (tropical mix), freeze dried(tubiflex dapnia and bloodworm) flake, pellet, granular, wafer, sticks and tablets. Something different everyday. My tank is also heavily planted 10+ inc floating plants
Tank size is 150ltr shared with a baby synodontis 5 danios 2 kulhi loach and 2 frogs
Sorry about pic quality
...
Here you can see how inflammed they are
And at the bottom is my female. Not much colour but she seems happy

could be gill flukes. Can you see anything white in or around the gills? they'll look like a tiny worm
 
The only other thing would be that these fish are better in soft water, with a pH bordering on 8 could point to hard water. This could be causing stress which would account for the colour changes you've described

Yeah. Thats the lowest i can get it with out using or buying chemicals/ coral sand/sea shells. The water in my area comes out the tap over 8.5. Nope no visible worms or bugs on around or near the gills. I did think gill flukes but would the ram not dart about and scrape on ornaments to try and remove them?? My friends fish had skin and gill flukes and thats all they done till they were treated. None of the symptoms match up except swollen gills. He is also breathing rapidly

a natural way to reduce pH and soften water would be by adding leaves (oak, indian almond, beech) or some alder cones. Bogwood can help too.
 
The symptoms your describing sounds like ammonia poisoning but you say that's zero. I'm struggling to think of anything else that this could be. Male cichlids do flare their gills naturally but he shouldn't be flaring perminantly ..

Ive just done another test (api master freshwater drip kit) and all ammo,nitri and nitra are all at 0ppm. I s this good? I was always told nitrate should be between 20 and 40ppm depending on tank size. Ive tested my other tank and the same paramiters apply there. Its due a w/c tomorrow. Hopefully this help....its s good place to start. Maybe theres toxins in there that i dont have a kit to test
I do have boogwood in my tank. Thats how im lowering the ph at the moment as it comes from the tap 8.5+

the API masterkit is a good kit but check to see that it's still in date as with a cycled tank I'd expect to see some nitrates. It is true that 20-40 is about right. At the same time though nitrate tests are notorious for giving slightly off readings so I wouldn't worry too much about that. It's more important that the ammonia and nitrite are zero.
 
With your pH, have a look online and see if you can get some indian almond leaves (catappa) and add one or two to your tank and monitor the pH. It should start to fall but you want it to fall slowly so not to shock the fish. Then when you do your water changes focus on changing smaller amounts more often so when you water change you raise the pH only in small amounts - again, we don't want to shock the fish.
 
Had you of come here before buying the GBR's we would have advised against them because of your hard water. The other alternative (and one you might want to consider) is you switch from using your tap water to using RO water. If you are on a water meter (as many of us are now) buying RO can be just as cost effective and with soft water fish it's the best idea.
 
The almond leaves will stain your water and the tank will look like you've added tea to it! That effect is not one everyone likes (personally I love it!) so if your one of those that doesn't like stained water then RO is the best option

Hi, Thanks for the info. Yes its still in date till 2020. Would the nitrate be so low because of the plants i have absorbing the nitrate as food?? As i said above it it a heavily planted tank. I have 10 plants plus around 20-25 floating plants (pistia stratiotes(water cabbage)

ahh I missed that. Yes, the plants will be absorbing the nitrate - the floating plants especially

Evening, no improvement in my GBR . Ive changed the water (25-30%). Added api stress coat/zyme. Ive added active carbon to my filter to clear any meds/treatments left in the tank to no avail....he just sits right at the surface sometimes face out the water. He has been in this position all day. Has not moved for 10+hrs. I really dont no what todo. I went and got some crushed coral today to help reduce the p.h and i washed a couple of oak leaves ready to put in tomorrow. I have bought a hospital tank l (plastic 25ltr) but forgot to buy a bloody heater so its currently cycling although i am tempted to fill it with cycled tank water and a spare bogwood which has beneficial bacteria onit.
.
He is completely vertical at the surface...if anything he slightly leaning back

what ever you do DO NOT add that crushed coral!! It will RAISE the pH not lower it!
 
I have no idea what is wrong with this fish but it doesn't look good for him. I suspect he won't last another 24 hours. So sorry

Hi all sorry to keep dragging this post back to the top. My poor ram isnt looking any better (think the end is nye for poor rameo) Thank god i read this in time. Just got home from work. The coral is all washed and ready to go in....well it was! I will put oak leaves in for now although i dont suspect its the p.h as my other ram is perfectly fine. Anyhow thanks for that i could of ended up with more ill fish!
If he has gill flukes. Would these pictures show them?

if it was gill flukes you'd see them hanging from the gills - for sure with his gills so swollen. I'm so sorry that I don't know what this is. I've not come across it before at all.
I'll have a search online and see if I can find anything but I suspect it is too late for him

don't know if this will help
 

Gill Disease
Gill disease make the fish appear to be swimming in a great hurry, but it does not move at all. The fins flap very fast, and the fish gasp for breath at the surface, or lie listless at the bottom. The gills become swollen and discolored. Bacteria, fungi and parasites in water can cause gill disease. The first step in the treatment is therefore an immediate improvement in water quality. Frequent water changes, conditioning and dechlorinating the water to ensure its quality are steps to take to threat and prevent gill disease. The chlorine in water often irritates the gills of the fish. Adding an anti-bacterial solution to the water may be needed to cure the fish. 

it's all I can find I'm afraid. Personally I've never heard of 'gill disease' but there's plenty of stuff on the net about it and it all says the same as what I've copied and pasted for you

Thank you for this info. I have put him in a fresh 25ltr hospital tank with 5ltr tank water 20ltr fresh dechlorinated water. I added api strss coat and zyme aswell. I do hope he makes it bless him.i will go buy him some antibacterial meds. He has been treated for gill flukes but no improvement so far.