Ropey Amazon Swords

I've had my tank coming up for a year and my Amazon swords are looking very sorry for themselves
I used fluorite black sand from seachem as substrate http/www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/FlouriteBlackSand.html
and they initially did well. They're still chucking out new leaves, but the old ones are brown and rotted, see pic.
When they started to go, I added some fertiliser in tablet form. Can't find them now, but they were from the UK classified section on here. Clear 'pill' with pale brown granules in. Said to be copper free and my amano shrimp seem fine, so I assume that's true.
It's been about a month since I added those, should they look better by now?
System is low tech, no ferts, no co2, lighting is 24w double tube on for 7 hours a day. I chose the swords along with Java ferns and anubias (which is doing great) for ease.
Thanks for any help

I think the problem is the lack of ferts and co2. I got lazy and stopped dosing for a bit and swords were the first to suffer. The leaves started rotting and were covered in brown spots. I've now set my phone to beep and remind me to add ferts and co2 daily and now the swords are recovering slowly. All the new leaves are perfectly green. The old one's still have brown spots though.
 
I use easylife profito and easycarbo but there are other good quality ferts out there

My first suggestion is that this is a nutrient issue.  There is some evidence that the Anubias is also being affected, but as this is a much slower-growing plant, it would not be so obvious as it will with faster-growing plants like swords. I'd need to know a bit more about the light (spectrum, and is this T5 or T8 tubes?) before ruling it out completely, but I think nutrients are the main issue.
 
Echinodorus (swords) are heavy feeding plants.  I also tried Seachem's Flourite and had my 70g set up with this for two years before I tore it down.  Flourite on its own will not provide sufficient nutrients (in my view, basically none at all).  I was also dosing liquid fertilizer (Flourish Comprehensive Supplement) and the plants were managing.  Substrate tabs do help swords, but there is still the liquidaspect because some nutrients are primarily or totally taken up by leaves from the water column, so substrate fertilization is not always going to be sufficient on its own.  It partially depends upon what natural nutrients may be in the water already, just so you know.
 
So my first suggestion would be to use a comprehensive liquid fertilizer.  Flourish Comprehensive Supplement is the one I happen to be using, but another is Brightwell Aquatics' FlorinMulti.  And use substrate tabs (I am using the Flourish Tabs, and not knowing the ones you mention cannot say much about them, but if you have them, use them) next to the swords.  These do make a difference.
 
I might have more when I know about the light.
 
Edit:  Akasha and I were posting simultaneously, and she has mentioned another product which should be just as good.
 
Byron.

Akasha72 said:

I think the problem is the lack of ferts and co2. I got lazy and stopped dosing for a bit and swords were the first to suffer. The leaves started rotting and were covered in brown spots. I've now set my phone to beep and remind me to add ferts and co2 daily and now the swords are recovering slowly. All the new leaves are perfectly green. The old one's still have brown spots though.
 
I use easylife profito and easycarbo but there are other good quality ferts out there

Click to expand...

 
The brown blotches is probably an accumulation of iron.  This occurs when calcium is deficient (I know you have soft water as I do).  The plant will take up more iron in place of calcium, and as this becomes an excess, the leaves gradually die.  B.

Thank you both Found the ad I bought the tabs from http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/435660-cheap-root-tabs-buy-now/
Would all the liquid ferts be copper free for the shrimp? And how often would they need adding?
Pic attached of light, I don't know any further sorry.
I assume the substrate had some nutrients initially, it's only the last couple ofmonths they've gone downhill...

Hi again. I'm just checking the ingredient list for Easylife's Profito (the fert I use). It says the following on the bottle:
 
Profito is a highly concentrated, complete fertilizer which contains Iron, Potassium, Manganese, and many other vital nutriants, A very economical, extra complete plant nutrition for a strong, healthy and lush plant growth in freshwater aquariums. Multiple stabilized fertilizer without any Nitrates or Phosphates.
 
 
I use this because I have excess phosphates in my tap water and my tank doesn't need any more adding. Hope that helps
 
EDIT:
I have two zebra nerite snails in my tank along with far too many trumpets too and so if there were any copper in my ferts I'd know by now

ellena said:

Thank you both

Found the ad I bought the tabs from http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/435660-cheap-root-tabs-buy-now/
Would all the liquid ferts be copper free for the shrimp? And how often would they need adding?
Pic attached of light, I don't know any further sorry.
I assume the substrate had some nutrients initially, it's only the last couple ofmonths they've gone downhill...

Click to expand...

 
First, on the fertilizer tabs you linked, I've no idea what these are like.  He says they are "essentially the same as API" and if so, this means they contain only nitrogen, phosphate, potash and iron.  I would try the Seachem Flourish Tabs frankly, they have a full range of the essential plant nutrients.
 
As for copper, there will be copper in any good micro-nutrient fertilizer as copper is essential for plant life (as for animals too).  There is no where near enough copper in reliable products to harm shrimp, unless you madly over-dose.  I've been using these products for years and never harmed my snails, nor the shrimp I had for a time.
 
Now to the light, we need to sort this out.  You say they are tubes, two of them...at one end there will be some data printed, let me have that.  And the 24w, is that both in total, or each individually?  And what is the tank size, both volume and dimensions; I need this to be able to work out the light being too little or too much.
 
Byron.

Sorry, totally forgot to attach the pic :")
Tank is Aqua one horizon 60 http/www.aquaone.co.uk/horizon.php
60x30x39 60l
Shall buy some ferts, thanks Tablets and liquid?

The light is quite bright, which means you wil have to add fertilizers to balance.  And I would also get a good cover of floating plants.  I would use substrate tabs (the Flourish Tabs) and liquid; Akasha mentioned some UK products so you might want to look at those.

Will get all that sorted, thanks very much for your help with this
Soon back, sorry! :")
Here are my UK options for seachem http/www.warehouse-aquatics.co.uk/brands/seachem.html?seachem=981&gclid=CNOvouTj9MgCFUqdGwodZQYNYg
The comprehensive only has micro nutrients and I don't know what my water supply has to know which macros I'd need. I'm keen on a low maintenance system, is there an all in one?

ellena said:

Will get all that sorted, thanks very much for your help with this

Soon back, sorry! :")
Here are my UK options for seachem http/www.warehouse-aquatics.co.uk/brands/seachem.html?seachem=981&gclid=CNOvouTj9MgCFUqdGwodZQYNYg
The comprehensive only has micro nutrients and I don't know what my water supply has to know which macros I'd need. I'm keen on a low maintenance system, is there an all in one?

Click to expand...

 
In the link you posted, the complete liquid fertilizer is the Flourish Comprehensive Supplement, here is the link to the product page:
http/www.warehouse-aquatics.co.uk/seachem-flourish-100ml.html
 
This has all essential nutrients aquatic plants need, except for oxygen, hydrogen and carbon.  So the other macros are included, along with the micros.  This is the liquid to start with.  As the name says, it is a supplement, intended to supplement these various nutrients which will be present in tap water (mainnly the hard minerals here) and fish foods.
 
But as I said earlier, Akasha mentioned some UK specific products which are I'm sure just as good.  But if you want to go with the Seachem line, use the comprehensive.  The GH of your tap water is also important, as this is the primary source of the hard minerals (calcium, magnesium and some others).
 
If all of this doesn't help, you may have to either reduce the light intensity or move to more high-tech fertilizers.
 
Byron.

? It definitely says

For macro element (NPK) fertilization, use Flourish Nitrogen, Flourish Phosphorus or Flourish Potassium as needed.

ellena said:

? It definitely says

For macro element (NPK) fertilization, use Flourish Nitrogen, Flourish Phosphorus or Flourish Potassium as needed.

Click to expand...

 
Yes, but those nutrients are present in Flourish Comprehensive; here's the list from Seachem:
http/www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html
And as I said, it is intended to "supplement" the naturally-occurring macros.  Nitrogen is something you do not want to be adding unless you are dealing with a high-tech heavily-planted tank.  Plants prefer ammonia/ammonium as their nitrogen source, and there is usually more than sufficient of this being naturally produced by the fish respiration, breakdown of organics, etc.  Phosphorus occurs in fish foods, and is more than sufficient except again in very high-tech systems.  Potassium is sometimes needed extra, but having experimented with this myself (when I was attempting to isolate a nutrient deficiency) I found it to be sufficient in the Comp plus other sources.
 
In low-tech or natural systems such as we are dealing with here, you should never need to add macros beyond what is present in Flourish Comprehensive.  Doing so can cause algae issues.  The only exception is the hard minerals like calcium primarily, if you have very soft source water (as I have), but this too depends upon the plants (species and numbers).
 
Byron.

I see, thanks for explaining My water is hard, so should be ok there...

Back with an update, the swords responded almost immediately to the ferts and are looking a lot better, loads of fresh green leaves I'm taking the old ones off gradually. I got some floating plants and I love the look of them, but they haven't fared so well They're probably about half the size they were.
Any suggestions welcome, thank you

happy to read the plants are bouncing back. As to the floating plants, I'm no expert as I've never had floating plants but it may be that they are dying back from transportation and will recover in time. Keep adding your ferts and see if they start to recover 
 
Hope that helps