Banging My Head Against A Wall

Soooo, after getting advice here and doing more research, I decided maybe killing off danios wasn't the way I wanted to get into this hobby.

Took the danios to the closest independent LFS to see if I could find them a new home while I found some ammonia and did a fishless cycle.

LFS said she could take the fish, but recommended using Nutrafin Cycle and cycling with the fish in, said they'd withstand the ammonia spike and I should *not* change water until cycle was through. Even though this conflicts most of what I'd read, I bought the bottle for ten bucks. (I know. I know.)

Came home, checked temp, re-acclimated fish to tank water, added bacteria in a bottle per listed dose, and then re-added fish.

An hour later, danio #2 was lying on the bottom. (For those just joining our story, danio #1 died yesterday.) Don't know if it was the chemicals, the ammonia, or the stress of the car ride. (These are now the most-traveled fish in the San Fernando Valley.)

So now I have one big, lonely danio; one tank full of unknowns; and not much clue as to what to do next.

I'd like to try to continue cycling with the fish in there, as I'm now not real eager to return him to the indie LFS. Keep up cycling as I was, and if he dies, I'll move to fish-less cycling. But I'm not sure if one fish (and a few plants) is enough to get the cycle moving, and I don't want to torture a schooling fish by being alone. But I also don't want to add more danios.

Opinions? Advice?

Lost in America,
Aaron

What are your water parameters, and how are you testing them?

You might have needed to to a huge water change like 90% before you re-introduced the fish.
You might have dumped them into a toxin filled environment.
Stick with what you have read. Doing water changes during a fish-in cycle is a good thing. It keeps toxin levels low which will help the fish. So, I disagree with your lfs. I did a 50% wc everyday during my fish-in cycling. I still have all my fish and my tank cycled in a quicker timeframe.

Another more experienced member can probably help you about the lone fish situation. But as long as you have a source of ammonia the cycling process will continue. You just have to keep in mind that when your tank finally does cycle the filter only cycled to handle the bioload of that one fish. And when you want to add new fish you will want to do it very slowly....very very slowly.

Good luck!
The more experienced members here really helped me, so pay close attention to their advice and experience and you won't go wrong!

Steve H. said:

What are your water parameters, and how are you testing them?

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API test kit. The liquid one.

Latest tests are as follows:
Ph: 7.4 (first time it's changed from 7.8)
Ammonia: 0.25 (no change)
Nitrite: 0 (no change)
Nitrate: between 0 and 5 -- first time it's registered.

Planning on a 50% w/c tonight. So the bacteria-in-a-bottle has made some bit of difference. Hmm.

Oh, and I also pulled the charcoal packet out of the filter, hoping to get more water through the biological mesh stuff.

Aaron

Autonerd said:

Steve H. said:

What are your water parameters, and how are you testing them?

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API test kit. The liquid one.

Latest tests are as follows:
Ph: 7.4 (first time it's changed from 7.8)
Ammonia: 0.25 (no change)
Nitrite: 0 (no change)
Nitrate: between 0 and 5 -- first time it's registered.

Planning on a 50% w/c tonight. So the bacteria-in-a-bottle has made some bit of difference. Hmm.

Oh, and I also pulled the charcoal packet out of the filter, hoping to get more water through the biological mesh stuff.

Aaron

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You're on your way buddy. you are in a fish-in cycle.

I don't think the bacteria in a bottle hurt, but I really don't think it helped. If it had you would have seen a change in your ammonia not your nitrates.
0.25 ammonia is still a little high and will stress your lone fish. Water changes will help keep if as low as you can.

Good luck! Hope your last little guy makes it!

Update:

3 days since my last post, and my daily readings remain about the same: Ammonia at 0.25, nitrite at 0, nitrate was at 5 but is now between 0 and 5. (Since folks on here said it couldn't do any harm, I used the NitraFin Cycle for days 2 and 3. No dose today, perhaps that explains the drop.

Interesting, the amount of water changed (or, for one day, lack thereof) doesn't seem to affect the readings. 24 hours later, my ammonia is always at 0.25 ppm.

I do have several live plants... I'll attach a pic of the tank.

My one Danio seems to look okay... fairly active, and no pink around his gills. I worry that he's lonely!

Aaron

the plants will use the nitrate. so a drop in nitrate may be due to the plants.

Those variegated plants in the back are NOT aquatic plants. Take them out and plant them in a pot and put them on the windowsill where they belong. If you leave them there they will rot and foul your tank. Get them at Petco? And are those bamboo plants to the left? The leaves need to be out of the water.

Your ammonia levels should be moving a bit, so not sure what's going on there. With only one fish they won't be really high if you keep up with the water changes, but they should be doing something.

As for fish, probably not a bad idea to get a couple more for right now, otherwise it will take a loooong time to build up your population later. Do you know anyone who can donate some mature filter media to you? If not, you should keep doing 50% water changes every single day until you get 0/0/10+ readings.

This Old Spouse said:

If you leave them there they will rot and foul your tank. Get them at Petco?

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Petsmart. And yes, one of them is starting to come apart. The LFS (the one that said not to change water) does have a good selection of plants -- I'll do some research and figure out what I can replace them with. (Suggestions welcome!)

And are those bamboo plants to the left? The leaves need to be out of the water.

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Yes, and I did not know that. Can I simply prune them?

As for fish, probably not a bad idea to get a couple more for right now, otherwise it will take a loooong time to build up your population later.

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Cool. I had been wondering about that.

Do you know anyone who can donate some mature filter media to you? If not, you should keep doing 50% water changes every single day until you get 0/0/10+ readings.

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Unfortunately, no one I know keeps fish.

Thanks very much for the advice. I have my to-do list for tonight and tomorrow!

Aaron

Autonerd said:

LFS said she could take the fish, but recommended using Nutrafin Cycle and cycling with the fish in, said they'd withstand the ammonia spike and I should *not* change water until cycle was through. Even though this conflicts most of what I'd read, I bought the bottle for ten bucks. (I know. I know.)

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Hi, Autonerd.

I don't want to make this seem like I am attacking you, but I want to say this for your benefit and the benefit of your remaining (and future) fish.

#1 - You really should have just insisted that she take the fish back. She recommended you buy the product because it meant a sale, rather than taking back stock that has suffered from ammonia poisoning. That's much better for her.

#2 - The danios aren't suitable to your tank. Danios are very fast and active swimmers. They generally need a lot of length to swim - some here recommend a minimum of 4 feet!

#3 - The advice not to change the water makes me sick. I would really like to expose these people to ammonia in the same way that they are exposing these fish to it. I've had ammonia in my lungs before - not my smartest moment - and it burns unlike anything I have ever experienced (and continued to do so long after I had gotten myself to fresh air!).

Autonerd said:

Opinions? Advice?

Lost in America,
Aaron

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Personally, I would recommend you return the remaining danio and never return to the store that didn't just take the fish the first time and instead sold you a product that recommends slowly poisoning your fish, unless maybe she would refund you the money for the Cycle product, since you used it on her advice that the fish would "survive" (note the subtle difference in not having said "thrive") the ammonia spike and one of them died the very same day.

Then, continue the process in a fishless cycle. Then while you wait for the cycle to complete, I'd research suitable fish for your tank. The tank appears to be rather small... 10 gallon, maybe 15. Here is a good starting place. Post your stocking plans here and folks can give their opinions. Of course, the ultimate decision will always be yours.



I hope that didn't come off as too negative, but you did ask for opinions/advice. (Be careful what you wish for! )

eaglesaquarium said:

I hope that didn't come off as too negative, but you did ask for opinions/advice. (Be careful what you wish for! )

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No worries, I appreciate it! That's why I came here -- to learn.

Aaron

Autonerd said:

eaglesaquarium said:

I hope that didn't come off as too negative, but you did ask for opinions/advice. (Be careful what you wish for! )

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No worries, I appreciate it! That's why I came here -- to learn.

Aaron

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Well you have 2 great keepers helping you! TOS and Eagles have both helped me. And both have solid plans for what what you can do.
I was in your same position. I was in a fish-in cycle before I really knew anything about the hobby. Came here for advice and to learn....and still learning.
I can really only contribute that wc's are important so keep doing them.
It may seem like forever, or that they are not making a difference, but when your tank/filter finally cycles...and you are getting your double zero's it is a very rewarding feeling.
Again good luck!

Thanks, Steve! All of us started somewhere, and all of us have made plenty of mistakes (case in point just a few minutes ago: forgot AGAIN to turn off the pipes to my canister filter, and guess what happened when I opened it??)

Seriously, once your tank is cycled the work factor goes down immensely and the enjoyment factor shoots up! And don't ever be afraid to ask questions. Ever. I'm still asking!

Thank you Steve. I'm still learning as well, but I have the cycle thing down!

Your almost done it looks like!